[Archived] Sustained Attempt to Undermine the Club?

[47er]

Jim's point means nothing when he also says that results are paramount, and yet continues to pick holes in three separate victories, all of which won by a two-goal margin.

To be fair Jim does point out that we've taken 4 points from the last 15. If he's a results man, why wouldn't he be concerned about that? Why wouldn't you?

[sambo]

If he's such a proble, why don't you put him on ignore?

People quote him anyway, and if people reply to him I wouldn't mind knowing what the discussion is about.

Don't agree with censoring him, just wish he'd get his head out his rear!

[Amo]

To be fair Jim does point out that we've taken 4 points from the last 15. If he's a results man, why wouldn't he be concerned about that? Why wouldn't you?

Jim had nothing good to say when we DID win, so it doesn't really matter.

[DE.]

Jim's point means nothing when he also says that results are paramount, and yet continues to pick holes in three separate victories, all of which won by a two-goal margin.

Anyway, do we suddenly have to dominate games from start to finish now? I can't remember Rovers ever doing that on a consistent basis in the last ten years.

It would be nice to look capable of dominating a game at some point. With the current gaping holes in our midfield and Salgado being totally exposed on the right-side there's zilch chance of that happening any time soon.

[47er]

Jim had nothing good to say when we DID win, so it doesn't really matter.

And there have been lots of people doing that over the years one way or another. How about my question to you? Does 4 points from 15 not concern you? Not just a little bit?

[Amo]

And there have been lots of people doing that over the years one way or another. How about my question to you? Does 4 points from 15 not concern you? Not just a little bit?

It's not brilliant, but two of those defeats were against Top Four sides, so let's get some perspective.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

So basically what you are saying is that anybody who dare critise the present manager obviously wants the club to fail while you were relentless in your criticism of Sam, but that was OK because you wanted the team to win. Sorry but that's complete rubbish.

Do you think that after 50 years of supporting this club I want it to fail simply because I have reservations about the new manager? Do you seriously believe that I travel all over following the team simply in the hope we get beat? As for our owners I neither like nor dislike them, I don't know them, I've never met them. However, I have reservations about some of their decision making - like sacking an experienced manager and replacing him with a novice at a critical point in the season.

I don't believe that there is anyone who posts on this messageboard who is not fully committed to the cause of Blackburn Rovers. However, people are allowed to express opinions. Goodness knows we had enough negative comments when Sam was in charge. While I might not have agreed with them I never once suspected that those who disliked him would want the team to lose matches.

Thanks for that. My views to a tee.

[AggyBlue]

Thanks for that. My views to a tee.

Me too.

I'm always up for a moan when we loose, there are obviously things to moan about then.

So I must want the club to fail. Still I didn't see many of the Venky(and Kean) brown noser's freezing their nuts off at Leigh tonight.

[Steve Moss]

It's not brilliant, but two of those defeats were against Top Four sides, so let's get some perspective.

Not to be a pest, but Chelsea is currently 5th and I assume is one of the top 4 sides referred to. Though I understand your point.

Looking at our last 10 PL matches since Kean has taken over, and comparing to to the current table, we have played a top half side 6 times (Stoke, Sunderlan, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham and Newcastle) and a bottom half side 4 times (Wigan, WBA x2 and West Ham). Of Keans 11 points, 7 has come from the bottom half 4 teams (7/12) and 4 out of the top half 6 teams (4/18 points).

Looking at our remaining fixtures, 3 are current top half (Arsenal, ManC and ManU) and 8 are current bottom half (Aston Villa, Fulham, Blackpool, Birmingham, Everton, Bolton, West Ham and Wolves). This simplistic analysis bodes well for the Rovers under Kean.

Of the 11 remaining matches, however, only three, Wolves, West Ham and Blackpool, are below us on the current form table. The other 8 are currently on better form. Worse, Wolves and West Ham's home form is much better than our current away form. Surprisingly, Blackpool does better away on current form than home. This slighlty less simplistic analysis does not bode well for the Rovers under Kean.

[BangkokRover]

Not to be a pest, but Chelsea is currently 5th and I assume is one of the top 4 sides referred to. Though I understand your point.

Looking at our last 10 PL matches since Kean has taken over, and comparing to to the current table, we have played a top half side 6 times (Stoke, Sunderlan, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham and Newcastle) and a bottom half side 4 times (Wigan, WBA x2 and West Ham). Of Keans 11 points, 7 has come from the bottom half 4 teams (7/12) and 4 out of the top half 6 teams (4/18 points).

Looking at our remaining fixtures, 3 are current top half (Arsenal, ManC and ManU) and 8 are current bottom half (Aston Villa, Fulham, Blackpool, Birmingham, Everton, Bolton, West Ham and Wolves). This simplistic analysis bodes well for the Rovers under Kean.

Of the 11 remaining matches, however, only three, Wolves, West Ham and Blackpool, are below us on the current form table. The other 8 are currently on better form. Worse, Wolves and West Ham's home form is much better than our current away form. Surprisingly, Blackpool does better away on current form than home. This slighlty less simplistic analysis does not bode well for the Rovers under Kean.

Well done Steve, exactly most people are worried about and before anyone says but we were not that good under Sam. The above results are proof that Kean is on rocky ground, we are not talking about Sam. I still think we will stay up JUST but Kean is about as useful to Rovers as Brian Laws was to the Dingles.

If you look at the form table at the moment you will see Rovers are 2nd bottom with only Blackpool below us.

I did trying to post an image but I was told I can not post .jpg

[thenodrog]

For piece of mind though i'm far more scathing of the present Walker family for taking their 20 pieces of silver and then delivering us with this current mob.

Be fair JAL. They ran the club pretty well for a full 10 years after Jack died. They do not deserve any ingratitude and really should be thanked for sticking in there for that long.

It's people like Jim which make this MB less fun to visit.

If he isn't obsessively posting about Theno, he is criticising every move by Kean, even though Allardyce did the same.

He's a pain alright... has been for years, but ironically we do appear to be in an agreement of sorts on the current situation at Ewood.

[sambo]

Be fair JAL. They ran the club pretty well for a full 10 years after Jack died. They do not deserve any ingratitude and really should be thanked for sticking in there for that long.

He's a pain alright... has been for years, but ironically we do appear to be in an agreement of sorts on the current situation at Ewood.

It's not his opinion that annoys me, I understand his concerns, it's just the way he posts and tries to provoke people into arguments, and doesn't offer a balanced view.

[Mercer]

People quote him anyway, and if people reply to him I wouldn't mind knowing what the discussion is about.

Don't agree with censoring him, just wish he'd get his head out his rear!

Jim is a wise old sage and many on here, IMO, should be a little more respectful.

In the main, I think his views are well founded, insightful and spot on.

[yeti-dog]

Jim is a wise old sage and many on here, IMO, should be a little more respectful.

In the main, I think his views are well founded, insightful and spot on.

Not words I would use to describe his recent input,not by a long shot.

Still,if we were all the same this message board would be a pretty boring place I admit.

[Kelbo]

Not words I would use to describe his recent input,not by a long shot.

Still,if we were all the same this message board would be a pretty boring place I admit.

Sorry its off topic, but I wish you would change the picture of a young Ronnie Corbett

[yeti-dog]

Sorry its off topic, but I wish you would change the picture of a young Ronnie Corbett

But then I'd lose my mojo..

[TimmyJimmy]

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. - Voltaire

We can never be sure that the opinion we are endeavoring to stifle is a false opinion; and if we were sure, stifling it would be an evil still. - John Stuart Mill

The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen. - Smothers

Yesterday I thought the notion behind this thread was ludicrous, today I think it smacks of malevolence. Unless illegal whatever the viewpoint is we should never seek to close down an exchange of views, if you don't like it don't read it. Don't try to intimidate any poster into silence by accusing them of some despicable motivation or of somehow being a traitor who is to be hunted down and outcast. The whole idea that some posters should be branded as 'other' and beneath contempt smacks of the mechanics of a fascist agenda (and before that's seized upon as a political term I intend it in the context of a reactionary or dictatorial agenda).

The two camps appear irreconcilable - mods is it time to open a new thread for only those with an open mind who just want to read posts about the club without rancour and flaming of the poster, those that are bothered by others opinions can just choose to look the other way and not read it.

[gumboots]

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. - Voltaire

We can never be sure that the opinion we are endeavoring to stifle is a false opinion; and if we were sure, stifling it would be an evil still. - John Stuart Mill

The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen. - Smothers

Yesterday I thought the notion behind this thread was ludicrous, today I think it smacks of malevolence. Unless illegal whatever the viewpoint is we should never seek to close down an exchange of views, if you don't like it don't read it. Don't try to intimidate any poster into silence by accusing them of some despicable motivation or of somehow being a traitor who is to be hunted down and outcast. The whole idea that some posters should be branded as 'other' and beneath contempt smacks of the mechanics of a fascist agenda (and before that's seized upon as a political term I intend it in the context of a reactionary or dictatorial agenda).

The two camps appear irreconcilable - mods is it time to open a new thread for only those with an open mind who just want to read posts about the club without rancour and flaming of the poster, those that are bothered by others opinions can just choose to look the other way and not read it.

It's not about facts though is it. The problem is that some are posting what they believe to be facts but for various reasons don't feel able to give the evidence that would enable us to know they are facts. This however, does not stop their putting a slant on what they can only hint at that suggests it is to the detriment of the club and all is falling apart around us. Now it might be true. It might be largely true. It may be all false. It may be true but not necessarily as black as it's painted if the full facts were known.

I have no problem with opinions. What I have the problem with is those who hint at facts, but cannot back them with hard evidence for whatever reason, but seem to want the bad facts they may have heard to be true, and appear to ignore any positive facts others may present. That doesn't sound very clear to me reading back, unfortunately. I'm prepared to read and listen to the opinions of others and try to be openminded about what is going on, but it's hard to see what some of the "I know something you don't know but it's all bad, bad, bad" brigade get out of posting. Even if it's all awful we still can't do anything about it except try to keep supporting our team, our players, when they turn out on the pitch.

[RovertheHill]

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. - Voltaire

We can never be sure that the opinion we are endeavoring to stifle is a false opinion; and if we were sure, stifling it would be an evil still. - John Stuart Mill

The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen. - Smothers

Yesterday I thought the notion behind this thread was ludicrous, today I think it smacks of malevolence. Unless illegal whatever the viewpoint is we should never seek to close down an exchange of views, if you don't like it don't read it. Don't try to intimidate any poster into silence by accusing them of some despicable motivation or of somehow being a traitor who is to be hunted down and outcast. The whole idea that some posters should be branded as 'other' and beneath contempt smacks of the mechanics of a fascist agenda (and before that's seized upon as a political term I intend it in the context of a reactionary or dictatorial agenda).

The two camps appear irreconcilable - mods is it time to open a new thread for only those with an open mind who just want to read posts about the club without rancour and flaming of the poster, those that are bothered by others opinions can just choose to look the other way and not read it.

A smashing post but an exchange of views can only happen when a view is posted, as opposed to "something bad is happening but I can't tell you what, but I want you to agree with me blindly anyway" If you think that's an exchange of views then I suggest you re-read your dictionary definition of a fascist agenda ffs

[CrazyIvan]

It's not about facts though is it. The problem is that some are posting what they believe to be facts but for various reasons don't feel able to give the evidence that would enable us to know they are facts. This however, does not stop their putting a slant on what they can only hint at that suggests it is to the detriment of the club and all is falling apart around us. Now it might be true. It might be largely true. It may be all false. It may be true but not necessarily as black as it's painted if the full facts were known.

I have no problem with opinions. What I have the problem with is those who hint at facts, but cannot back them with hard evidence for whatever reason, but seem to want the bad facts they may have heard to be true, and appear to ignore any positive facts others may present. That doesn't sound very clear to me reading back, unfortunately. I'm prepared to read and listen to the opinions of others and try to be openminded about what is going on, but it's hard to see what some of the "I know something you don't know but it's all bad, bad, bad" brigade get out of posting. Even if it's all awful we still can't do anything about it except try to keep supporting our team, our players, when they turn out on the pitch.

This.

[rovers_rob]

It's not about facts though is it. The problem is that some are posting what they believe to be facts but for various reasons don't feel able to give the evidence that would enable us to know they are facts. This however, does not stop their putting a slant on what they can only hint at that suggests it is to the detriment of the club and all is falling apart around us. Now it might be true. It might be largely true. It may be all false. It may be true but not necessarily as black as it's painted if the full facts were known.

I have no problem with opinions. What I have the problem with is those who hint at facts, but cannot back them with hard evidence for whatever reason, but seem to want the bad facts they may have heard to be true, and appear to ignore any positive facts others may present. That doesn't sound very clear to me reading back, unfortunately. I'm prepared to read and listen to the opinions of others and try to be openminded about what is going on, but it's hard to see what some of the "I know something you don't know but it's all bad, bad, bad" brigade get out of posting. Even if it's all awful we still can't do anything about it except try to keep supporting our team, our players, when they turn out on the pitch.

I have tried to add a response to this thread about 3 or 4 times but I have ended up deleting it because what I wrote didn't make sense when I read it back but fortunately this post is exactly how I feel as well (thanks gumboots).

I disagree with a lot of the "hints" that have been posted recently but I have not posted an opinion back at the risk of being accused of being deluded and having my head buried in the sand.

[Paul]

It's not about facts though is it. The problem is that some are posting what they believe to be facts but for various reasons don't feel able to give the evidence that would enable us to know they are facts.

But nobody wants to discuss facts. This thread in 16 hours:

Replies 144

Views 4333

Barclays Mortgage or Charge Thread - which is undiluted fact and should be a concern, in 10 days:

Replies 77

Views 3917

Which for me suggests when posters with concerns which are in the public domain fact, which lead to questions with regard to the current funding of BRFC very few people give a monkey's or appear to wish to discuss it.

If a concerned poster hints at what is perceived by others as "inside info" but is unable to back it up for a variety of reasons it warrants an entire thread devoted to complaining about such posts.

A quick bit of maths suggests to me there is approximately 30 times more interest in criticising folk who are trying to highlight areas of concern. I do agree it does get a bit heavy on occassions.

This simply confirms for me what I have thought for years. The vast majority of football fans only want to hear positives until such time as a huge negative, like relegation or going bust, has become an incontrovertible fact.

So what do people want fact, fantasy, rumour or hints. If the demand is for fact, which is the implication of requesting evidence, I hope we never see another Transfer Window thread again because such a thread is usually full of rumour, hint and fantasy with very, very little that is factual. Oh but then it was reported on SSN....................................

[CrazyIvan]

But nobody wants to discuss facts. This thread in 16 hours:

Replies 144

Views 4333

Barclays Mortgage or Charge Thread - which is undiluted fact and should be a concern, in 10 days:

Replies 77

Views 3917

Which for me suggests when posters with concerns which are in the public domain fact, which lead to questions with regard to the current funding of BRFC very few people give a monkey's or appear to wish to discuss it.

If a concerned poster hints at what is perceived by others as "inside info" but is unable to back it up for a variety of reasons it warrants an entire thread devoted to complaining about such posts.

A quick bit of maths suggests to me there is approximately 30 times more interest in criticising folk who are trying to highlight areas of concern. I do agree it does get a bit heavy on occassions.

This simply confirms for me what I have thought for years. The vast majority of football fans only want to hear positives until such time as a huge negative, like relegation or going bust, has become an incontrovertible fact.

So what do people want fact, fantasy, rumour or hints. If the demand is for fact, which is the implication of requesting evidence, I hope we never see another Transfer Window thread again because such a thread is usually full of rumour, hint and fantasy with very, very little that is factual. Oh but then it was reported on SSN....................................

There's a massive difference between the Transfer Window thread and someone hinting that all is not well in the club or 'the club is in crisis' without any information of any kind to back it up. Speculation about incoming/outgoing players is mostly pretty much harmless fun. Someone constantly saying things are wrong and badmouthing Venkys at every opportunity is a completely different matter. If someone spread nasty rumours about you amongst your mates while you weren't around, you might meet them and get a mouthful of abuse. Same thing on a different scale.

As for your financial post, I found it really interesting but its hard to comment on as we don't know what is going on behind the scenes regarding that particular mortgage and nobody quite seems to know the answer.

[RovertheHill]

Part of the problem is that at least some of those hinting at problems now were the same people who shouted down any concerns when Syed was taking over the club, including those "hinted" at by the BBC. Too blinded by untold billions?

Still, there are enough people hinting now that there are problems for it to be worrisome. Deftangel tried to get the LET to ask the club about pauls thread, something which I followed up too. However, without any other idea at what is wrong I'm not sure what your plain old unconnected fan like myself can do?

[roversmum]

If you don't know, or can only try and guess what the problems are, how can you comment on them?