[Archived] Entertainment or Result Is All That Matters?

[MarkBRFC71]

That's what sport is about, it's about winning, it's about competing, it's about conquering your opposition by any means. That's what sport used to be about, but now with big money being poured into clubs and players earning ridiculous wages, it's been turned into an entertainment machine

I think because of all the money in the sport, football in general has become far less entertaining. Such are the riches of being in the Premier League, and the fear of losing the money should you be relegated, teams now adopt an 'avoid defeat at all costs' approach to games, which adds to the negativity. While Sam was perhaps the biggest proponent of the worst kind of that style of football, it wasn't without good reason - keeping Rovers on the Premier League gravy train. It's a sad indictment of the sport that it's turned out like this IMO.

[spencey7]

Any footballing system which stifles players dynamism, creativity or freedom to express themselves going forward is an absolute non-starter in my opinion. I watch football to see talented professionals excite crowds, get people on their feet, inspire young players... Not to hoof a ball "into the mixer" from 70 yards. Or throw a ball really far. Or just "be a body in the box".

Football is entertainment. It's the reason it exists as a spectator sport.

[Kelbo]

Any footballing system which stifles players dynamism, creativity or freedom to express themselves going forward is an absolute non-starter in my opinion. I watch football to see talented professionals excite crowds, get people on their feet, inspire young players... Not to hoof a ball "into the mixer" from 70 yards. Or throw a ball really far. Or just "be a body in the box".

Football is entertainment. It's the reason it exists as a spectator sport.

Idealism v Realism, unfortunately, whilst I am sure we would all love to see free flowing football played as the beautiful game was meant to be, without a large amount of money, I am afraid its not possible, a bit like pure communism, in theory it sounds fine but in reality would never work.

[Eddie]

Talking about your own experiences as a player are really neither here nor there. The reason why this discussion is even taking place is because we are supporters. As a player you run onto the pitch and play, if the team plays well it is more enjoyable (anyone saying otherwise is lying), but the fact is that you just care about winning and the quality your own performance.

I can't believe that anyone would seriously argue that if given the choice between playing 'good' football and finishing 12th or playing 'ugly' football and finishing 10th or 11th that they would seriously choose the latter. Doesn't it make you proud to see the team play well? I'm not talking about turning the team into Barcelona, but even in recent times there have been games where we have played such good football that I have walked away beaming. I enjoy watching the team scrap for a victory, but never scrap to a defeat. On the other hand, there have been games where I have walked away proud of the team and proud to be a supporter even when we have lost (Celtic Park, Villa Park last year, Spurs a few seasons back when we were sort of fighting for 4th, Liverpool towards the end of the season a few years ago when we lost 4-3). On top of that, it is even better when we outplay a 'good' team and win.

These are highly paid footballers and coaches and their aim should be to have the team win and play good football. There's no reason why it shouldn't be possible.

[CrazyIvan]

Talking about your own experiences as a player are really neither here nor there. The reason why this discussion is even taking place is because we are supporters. As a player you run onto the pitch and play, if the team plays well it is more enjoyable (anyone saying otherwise is lying), but the fact is that you just care about winning and the quality your own performance.

I can't believe that anyone would seriously argue that if given the choice between playing 'good' football and finishing 12th or playing 'ugly' football and finishing 10th or 11th that they would seriously choose the latter. Doesn't it make you proud to see the team play well? I'm not talking about turning the team into Barcelona, but even in recent times there have been games where we have played such good football that I have walked away beaming. I enjoy watching the team scrap for a victory, but never scrap to a defeat. On the other hand, there have been games where I have walked away proud of the team and proud to be a supporter even when we have lost (Celtic Park, Villa Park last year, Spurs a few seasons back when we were sort of fighting for 4th, Liverpool towards the end of the season a few years ago when we lost 4-3). On top of that, it is even better when we outplay a 'good' team and win.

These are highly paid footballers and coaches and their aim should be to have the team win and play good football. There's no reason why it shouldn't be possible.

That 4-3 loss at Liverpool was one of the best games of football I've been at. It was really entertaining. Everyone else was intent on watching Arsenal win the title at United that night though...

[Eddie]

...and you only remember it because it was such a good match and because we played so well. Had we lost 2-0 in a scrappy game you'd struggle to remember, even a 0-0 draw would have been tough to remember. It's a great memory to have and that is what supporting a team is about.

[ross-shire rover]

Sadly I don't go to Ewood anymore so I never criticise people who go week in and week out and delve deep into their pockets for the privilege. It's easy to make comments about entertainment from a distance. My local team Ross County play quite attractive football and can't score when the ball's placed on the goalline for them. We're very close to the bottom of the league and the manager's just been sacked after 9 games in charge. Ask everyone of the 2000 brave souls who go to every home match. Do you want the team to play attractive football across the park or score the occasional goal and get some bleeding points? I think you can guess the answer.

So as a life long Rovers supporter I want us to win games and play in the top flight full stop. But, as I said above, it's easy for me and lots of other people on this board who don't have to pay and sit through a boring 90 minutes.

I suppose someone has already said in this thread that it's nice to watch Barcelona and others playing attractive football but in those games you don't really care who wins. When Rovers are playing it's different isn't it?

[MarkBRFC71]

So perhaps the scoring/League system needs to be changed to make it less about not losing, and more about winning and scoring goals ....

Increase the points for a win from 3 to 5?

Decide League tables on goals scored then goal diff?

Any more crazy ideas?

[Eddie]

I do hope that at some point a rugby or cricket style bonus system will be employed in football, but that's not really what is up for debate here. Try to play good football, entertain the fans, make them proud and if we stay up then that is a good season. Our most successful seasons in the premier league in recent history have been when we have been when we have been built sides capable of truly playing football.

[Kelbo]

I dont think some changing of rules would help the matter too much, however, two of the most stupid rules should be dispensed with and the earlier the better.

Here are two situations we have seen occur in games, the players I mention here are for illustrative purposes only.

1) Kalinic is making a run down the left, just outside the penalty box, he is brought down and injured, Rovers have a free kick, does Kalinic go into the box to try and get on the end of the free kick? NO, he has to go to the half way line so having been fouled, the team are then penalised and have to play the set piece without a crucial element of the set piece. Thats one rule that should disappear immediately.

2) With less than a minute to go, a team who need to get at least a point to stay in the league, are through on goal and 30 yards from goal, the attacker is brought down, the defending player is sent off and there is only time left for the free kick to be taken, of what consequence is it that for a few seconds, they play against 10 men?

I would change this rule out of fairness, instead of being sent off, why not put back what was taken from the attacking player, a goalscoring opportunity, I suggest the ball is placed at the place where the offence was committed, the player who was brought down is allowed to take up play again but all defenders must be at least 5 yards behind the attacker, from the whistle the attacker can then try and score from the position where he was fouled, we then put back what has been taken away and the proffessional foul may be viewed quite differently from both players and managers alike.

This would also stop, at various stages of the game, supporters having to watch 10 v 11 etc. sending offs should be for either violence

or serious foul play and persistant infringements of the laws of the game.

I think this would put a bit more entertainment into football.

[thenodrog]

Lets examine THE most important and significant matches for BRFC in recent years.....

1. 1987 Full Members Cup Final. Poor match which rather fortunately we won.

2. 1992 Play off Final v Leicester. Nervy scrappy match but we won.

3. 1995 Livvie away. Went ahead early then we played on our nerves again got pegged back and beaten. But we won the Prem.

4. 2001 PNE away. Poor match, Jansen scored and Macken hit the post late on but we won promotion.

5. 2002 Worthington Cup Final Poor performence from an understrength team but we won.

Now hard as I try I can't rem anybody griping about the Rovers performances of any of those matches. Neither can I recall anybody admitting that they'd rather have seen us lose in a 7 goal thriller.

Compare this to so many Radio phone-ins regarding the Arsenal where countless spoiled git gooners line up to criticise Wenger and suggest that it's time for a change of manager cos they've entertained the nation for half a dozen years with sweet flowing football and won nowt.

Football supporters are fickle and will never ever be satisfied and thats that. Any further debate is pointless.

btw As an afterthought

6. 17 Dec 2001... the Battle of Turf Moor. Solid performance given the context and importance of the match but too frenzied and physical to be full of this 'airy fairy flowing football for puffs' that people who know sweet FA are coming on to gob of about. In it's own way that day was as good as it gets imo. Far better even than the other never to be forgotten match, the April Fools Day massacre in the return fixture at Ewood.

Passion and excitement will always come before entertainment.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Lets examine THE most important and significant matches for BRFC in recent years.....

1. 1987 Full Members Cup Final. Poor match which rather fortunately we won.

2. 1992 Play off Final v Leicester. Nervy scrappy match but we won.

3. 1995 Livvie away. Went ahead early then we played on our nerves again got pegged back and beaten. But we won the Prem.

4. 2001 PNE away. Poor match, Jansen scored and Macken hit the post late on but we won promotion.

5. 2002 Worthington Cup Final Poor performence from an understrength team but we won.

Now hard as I try I can't rem anybody griping about the Rovers performances of any of those matches. Neither can I recall anybody admitting that they'd rather have seen us lose in a 7 goal thriller.

Compare this to so many Radio phone-ins regarding the Arsenal where countless spoiled git gooners line up to criticise Wenger and suggest that it's time for a change of manager cos they've entertained the nation for half a dozen years with sweet flowing football and won nowt.

Football supporters are fickle and will never ever be satisfied and thats that. Any further debate is pointless.

btw As an afterthought

6. 17 Dec 2001... the Battle of Turf Moor. Solid performance given the context and importance of the match but too frenzied and physical to be full of this 'airy fairy flowing football for puffs' that people who know sweet FA are coming on to gob of about. In it's own way that day was as good as it gets imo. Far better even than the other never to be forgotten match, the April Fools Day massacre in the return fixture at Ewood.

Passion and excitement will always come before entertainment.

Indeed, winning crucial games is terrific. But not as terrific as winning crucial games in style: Plymouth 5-2; Port Vale 4-1; Bury 2-1; Derby 4-2; Man Yoo 2-0...

[thenodrog]

Indeed, winning crucial games is terrific. But not as terrific as winning crucial games in style: Plymouth 5-2; Port Vale 4-1; Bury 2-1; Derby 4-2; Man Yoo 2-0...

Those were notable games EiT. The ones I listed were crucial. Come to think about it no matter how fantastic the come back was at Ewood v Derby the second leg was the crucial one and that was a scrappy affair too.

[McClarky]

I don't see why everyone seems to associate playing negative football with being successful. I would think that if you look at football down the years the opposite was more likely to be true. Looking back at Rovers teams I have seen over the years we have played great football and done well without nexessarily being able to spend a lot of money. Look at the Don MacKay team of the late 80s or Souness and Hughes's Rovers teams of just a few years ago. I think the hard core will continue to turn up no matter what is on offer but if carried on playing like we were a few months ago there was an inevitable decline in attendances going to come in at some point. We have cut admission prices so much they can't go any lower and even at a tenner the entertainment served up was often not worth the money.

Football isn't just about what is going on out on the pitch either and if the experiences itself doesn't excite it spells trouble.

Personally I reckon if you set your sights on mid-table, which is what BFS did, there is absolutely no reason why a team can't play entertaining football more often than not.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Those were notable games EiT. The ones I listed were crucial.

Derby in the playoff semi wasn't crucial? Sure felt like it at the time when we were 2-0 down!

I should also have added Plymouth 0-3, crucial, notable and won in style.

[Amo]

Lets examine THE most important and significant matches for BRFC in recent years.....

1. 1987 Full Members Cup Final. Poor match which rather fortunately we won.

2. 1992 Play off Final v Leicester. Nervy scrappy match but we won.

3. 1995 Livvie away. Went ahead early then we played on our nerves again got pegged back and beaten. But we won the Prem.

4. 2001 PNE away. Poor match, Jansen scored and Macken hit the post late on but we won promotion.

5. 2002 Worthington Cup Final Poor performence from an understrength team but we won.

What about the games to get there?

[thenodrog]

Personally I reckon if you set your sights on mid-table, which is what BFS did, there is absolutely no reason why a team can't play entertaining football more often than not.

Really McClarky? Well it might enlighten you if you asked a Wolves, Wigan, WHU, WBA or Blackpool fan. They all reckon to be teams trying to play entertaining football.

What about the games to get there?

Dunno. Can't rem many of those and I'd wager neither can you. I can rem the ones I named though.

Surely you must be aware that history only remembers winners?

[Amo]

Dunno. Can't rem many of those and I'd wager neither can you. I can rem the ones I named though.

Surely you must be aware that history only remembers winners?

I remember Jansen putting Arsenal to the sword.

I remember playing teams off the park in our promotion season.

etc etc.

It's as much about the journey, as it is the destination.

[Fife Rover]

Indeed, winning crucial games is terrific. But not as terrific as winning crucial games in style: Plymouth 5-2; Port Vale 4-1; Bury 2-1; Derby 4-2; Man Yoo 2-0...

And then there was the grand-daddy of them all.........April 26th 1958 at The Valley. Charlton 3 -Rovers 4 in front of over 56,000, and most of them Rovers fans (or so it seemed). This win got Rovers promoted to the First Div for the first time since 1947, and the Rovers fans just about took over the whole of London's West End after the match and well into the night.

I don't know how many Rovers matches I have seen since my first in 1946, but that match stands out like a beacon in my mind and there is no other that even comes close to it for the excitement and atmosphere.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Really McClarky? Well it might enlighten you if you asked a Wolves, Wigan, WHU, WBA or Blackpool fan. They all reckon to be teams trying to play entertaining football.

Dunno. Can't rem many of those and I'd wager neither can you. I can rem the ones I named though.

Surely you must be aware that history only remembers winners?

17,000 will never forget Plymouth 5-2, even though we did not win anything that day. I lie, we won a huge psychological advantage which destroyed their hopes and took us to the title.

Your point would only be valid if someone was arguing it is more important to lose crucial games but play well rather than win them, which they are not.

[den]

Our most successful seasons in the premier league in recent history have been when we have been when we have been built sides capable of truly playing football.

Absolutely right Eddie.

You stopped short though. You should have continued on to say that the best footballing sides we've had in the Pl, are when we've had the best players. Note, that we weren't more entertaining because of who the manager was, we were more entertaining because of the quality of player being far higher than what we have now. Footballers will always play football, no matter who the manager, whatever the tactics.

Hmmmm.

[47er]

What about Rovers v Spurs at Ewood season before last? We were abysmal for 70 minutes! Spurs 1-0 ahead early,totally dominated play thereafter but never scored another.

We had no striker available and played with Samba up front. Dunny came on with about 20 minutes to go.Keeper made a mistake with a few minutes to go, simple header for Samba almost on the line.

1-1, crowd goes barmy---a vital point in the relegation battle when we "deserved" nothing. But wait! another late goal, we go home with an unbelievable 3 points from a match in which we had been dire for most of it!

That win virtually guaranteed our Premier League existence for another season.

No flowing football, no chances created other than the 2 goals, outplayed in every dept for 70 mins of the game. Pure hard slog.

Who didn't go home with a huge smile on their face? I couldn't stop laughing for weeks! One of our most memorable wins but the purists would have left before the end, possibly at half-time!

[Mattyblue]

What about Rovers v Spurs at Ewood season before last? We were abysmal for 70 minutes! Spurs 1-0 ahead early,totally dominated play thereafter but never scored another.

We had no striker available and played with Samba up front. Dunny came on with about 20 minutes to go.Keeper made a mistake with a few minutes to go, simple header for Samba almost on the line.

1-1, crowd goes barmy---a vital point in the relegation battle when we "deserved" nothing. But wait! another late goal, we go home with an unbelievable 3 points from a match in which we had been dire for most of it!

That win virtually guaranteed our Premier League existence for another season.

No flowing football, no chances created other than the 2 goals, outplayed in every dept for 70 mins of the game. Pure hard slog.

Who didn't go home with a huge smile on their face? I couldn't stop laughing for weeks! One of our most memorable wins but the purists would have left before the end, possibly at half-time!

Indeed, my mate broke his dad's rib he got that boisterous in his celebration!

Win, win, win.

[John]

Remember that game well, the feeling of victory was immense.

[Kelbo]

I do hope that at some point a rugby or cricket style bonus system will be employed in football, but that's not really what is up for debate here. Try to play good football, entertain the fans, make them proud and if we stay up then that is a good season. Our most successful seasons in the premier league in recent history have been when we have been when we have been built sides capable of truly playing football.

When we won the premiership, we won it for three reasons, based upon a sound defence, wonderful tactics and Shearer!!

The tactics everyone knew about but couldnt stop, from both Ripley and Wilcox early diagonal balls into the box, you cant defend them and immediately by doing that, you get the defenders facing their own goal, once you have done that, you are 2/3 the way there and then there was Shearer!!

And there were loads of games which were 'Boring' Boring Blackburn from the press!!