[Archived] Entertainment or Result Is All That Matters?

[Mattyblue]

When we won the premiership, we won it for three reasons, based upon a sound defence, wonderful tactics and Shearer!!

The tactics everyone knew about but couldnt stop, from both Ripley and Wilcox early diagonal balls into the box, you cant defend them and immediately by doing that, you get the defenders facing their own goal, once you have done that, you are 2/3 the way there and then there was Shearer!!

And there were loads of games which were 'Boring' Boring Blackburn from the press!!

Goodison Park? got the two goal early lead and spent the rest of the game defending and hoofing the ball down the pitch and out of play!

So bloody what! Fantastic win and fantastic day.

[thenodrog]

When we won the premiership, we won it for three reasons, based upon a sound defence, wonderful tactics and Shearer!!

The tactics everyone knew about but couldnt stop, from both Ripley and Wilcox early diagonal balls into the box, you cant defend them and immediately by doing that, you get the defenders facing their own goal, once you have done that, you are 2/3 the way there and then there was Shearer!!

And there were loads of games which were 'Boring' Boring Blackburn from the press!!

Who can rem Everton away? We were 2nd best by far and simply lumping it anywhere for the last 30 mins. Even Shearer was happy to hoof it into the crowd. We won 2-1, it mattered nowt that we made very many enemies on Merseyside that day .......... but who cares though cos the rest is history. If we'd taken Everton on at football and got beaten we still wouldn't have won the Prem.

[Kelbo]

What we all must remember, many do, is that its results based, if a manager isnt getting results its cheerio and thanks, we have to recognise that experienced managers understand that and simply cant play football for the sake of it.

If you have the personell, you can, we haven't at the moment so we cant, it really is simple and common sense, we are not good at retaining posession until we are, we are unable to play pretty football, it takes time, I will give you a little tip here, if any of you look after teams, junior or adult football, take a training session and in your small side game at the end of the session, get them to play two touch, the movement becomes so much better and the flow is better, then ask them for a minute of one touch, the ball is all over the place, the reason being, most cant control the ball and pass in one movement, not many can and this is why, watching Barca was amazing, they were taking, passing, turning in one movement in very tight situations, difficult to do, even for top pros, it takes a top player and years of practice and if our manager truly believes he can do this quickly, Barca or Real will be calling soon!

[47er]

Who can rem Everton away? We were 2nd best by far and simply lumping it anywhere for the last 30 mins. Even Shearer was happy to hoof it into the crowd. We won 2-1, it mattered nowt that we made very many enemies on Merseyside that day .......... but who cares though cos the rest is history. If we'd taken Everton on at football and got beaten we still wouldn't have won the Prem.

Yep----2 goals up in the first 5 minutes before a lot of fans had found their seats! And that was the end of the football! Only Everton fans and neutrals cared!

Who remembers Leeds away near the end of that season? We played as well as we did all season but the 2nd goal wouldn't come. Should have had a blatant penalty with minutes to go. Instead they went straight down the field and scored with about their only chance of the game.

Did we go home with smiles on our faces, proud of the fine football we played? No----we felt absolutely wretched.

[Mattyblue]

47er, we can keep repeating ourselves but there are a few on here that expect Ewood Park to be akin to an imax cinema experience and not a place to get behind your club and help it prosper.

[Majiball]

Blackburn Rovers 3 - 3 Leeds United, shearer hat trick.

I'll never forget that game even if we didn't win, it had it all.

[tony gale's mic]

I don't see why everyone seems to associate playing negative football with being successful. I would think that if you look at football down the years the opposite was more likely to be true. Looking back at Rovers teams I have seen over the years we have played great football and done well without nexessarily being able to spend a lot of money. Look at the Don MacKay team of the late 80s or Souness and Hughes's Rovers teams of just a few years ago. I think the hard core will continue to turn up no matter what is on offer but if carried on playing like we were a few months ago there was an inevitable decline in attendances going to come in at some point. We have cut admission prices so much they can't go any lower and even at a tenner the entertainment served up was often not worth the money.

Football isn't just about what is going on out on the pitch either and if the experiences itself doesn't excite it spells trouble.

Personally I reckon if you set your sights on mid-table, which is what BFS did, there is absolutely no reason why a team can't play entertaining football more often than not.

Rubbish, rubbish, rubbish.

What's the point in comparing what happened in the 80s to what's happening now?

Hughes' team was attractive to watch early doors when we had Bellamy and Tugay in his peak, but towards the end of his reign when Tugay had lost his legs the football wasn't good to watch at all, and every season we finished bottom of the fair play league. We were just as much derided for our style then, but for different reasons. Doesn't mean he wasn't a great manager for us but the reign of Mark Hughes was NOT one of great football except for the Bellamy season.

There are no sides which have consistently finished mid table on a small budget in the last 10 years other than us under Allardyce and Hughes, Bolton under Allardyce and Stoke under Pulis. ALL of those sides were widely derided in the media for their playing style.

If we get relegated under Kean it will drop our attendances FAR more than had we carried on with Sam. Our crowds held their own under Sam even after the price drop had some time to settle.

I remember Jansen putting Arsenal to the sword.

I remember playing teams off the park in our promotion season.

etc etc.

It's as much about the journey, as it is the destination.

You wouldn't have remembered playing teams off the park nearly as much had we finished 3rd and not got through the play offs.

That season we had far more resources and better players than anyone in the league (well along with Fulham).

Total opposite of the scenario here.

[Veevs]

Thing is on this though.. most of the debate has been about Sam v Kean...

Sam was extreme on percentage football.. Kean seems too be trying hard for the exact opposite (even without a first team capable of doing it due too injuries)... I reckon we can all agree on one thing, we got spoilt with Hughes and even souness and the glory years of kenny. Of those managers none of them played OTT percentage football nor where we ever barca in terms of flashy play (bats, atkins, sherwood, dickov, Newell to name a few players of many from the glory days).

Sam might of been a good manager for a club like ours trying to do well with nothing, but he was not a manager who will make it at the highest level (something Venkys think we can achieve) because percentage football would kill a big club he plays one way and its bloody hard too play against (most of the time) but is too much for many of us. A good mix of battling with a bit of creativity would be the way for us, not OTT percentage football nor extreme play without the squad too do it.

Run through any proper winning team in the epl and you will find the team builds similar... the midfield battler, the flair, the defensive heart and the scorer feature in almost every winning side. No true flair team has really done that well.. but no team that's all about battle has done that well.

So it must be all about balance and player combinations.

So IMO the debate is pointless, results football v entertaining football is mute.. there is percentage football (Sam), flash football (Ruud, Zola, Martinez or the new wenger), winning football (A mix) in fact there are lots of styles of plays with dif approaches but it's the mix of players that matters and using them correctly.

Winning sides the world round have that mix and build their tactics around them normally small groups of core players with tactics built for them... most importantly certain partnerships in teams that player who knows where his partner will be next... I am sure you can quote allot of them, I certainly can think of allot off the top of my head.

[tony gale's mic]

Thing is on this though.. most of the debate has been about Sam v Kean...

Sam was extreme on percentage football.. Kean seems too be trying hard for the exact opposite (even without a first team capable of doing it due too injuries)... I reckon we can all agree on one thing, we got spoilt with Hughes and even souness and the glory years of kenny. Of those managers none of them played OTT percentage football nor where we ever barca in terms of flashy play (bats, atkins, sherwood, dickov, Newell to name a few players of many from the glory days).

Sam might of been a good manager for a club like ours trying to do well with nothing, but he was not a manager who will make it at the highest level (something Venkys think we can achieve) because percentage football would kill a big club he plays one way and its bloody hard too play against (most of the time) but is too much for many of us. A good mix of battling with a bit of creativity would be the way for us, not OTT percentage football nor extreme play without the squad too do it.

Run through any proper winning team in the epl and you will find the team builds similar... the midfield battler, the flair, the defensive heart and the scorer feature in almost every winning side. No true flair team has really done that well.. but no team that's all about battle has done that well.

So it must be all about balance and player combinations.

So IMO the debate is pointless, results football v entertaining football is mute.. there is percentage football (Sam), flash football (Ruud, Zola, Martinez or the new wenger), winning football (A mix) in fact there are lots of styles of plays with dif approaches but it's the mix of players that matters and using them correctly.

Winning sides the world round have that mix and build their tactics around them normally small groups of core players with tactics built for them... most importantly certain partnerships in teams that player who knows where his partner will be next... I am sure you can quote allot of them, I certainly can think of allot off the top of my head.

Unless Venky's want to pump 20 million pounds' plus worth of hard (not borrowed) cash every summer, then we should be comparing ourselves with the likes of Stoke, Wolves, West Brom etc, no matter how much people on here don't want to hear this.

If you run through every proper winning team in the Premier League and you'll find hundreds of millions of pounds spent on it to buy GENUINE quality.

As I've said numerous times here, you run through every successful small budget team in this league (and there's only been a handful in the last ten years) and you will find a style of play which the neutrals have disliked. Besides, battling with a bit of creativity seems to describe his Bolton side down to a tee doesn't it? And before he got the sack he had started the pursuit of Charlie Adam so was looking to add that creativity in.

[Veevs]

As the rest of my post said you can have a bit of both, you do not need to go whole Sam style too win.. It is about team balance and partnershps that work..

And 20m didnt buy the Souness teams, the hughes teams.. and still would not, Formica might work out or not but he is the style we need one way and JJ the other... that makes 3-4m + a loanie.

Venky's want arsenal football style but quicker than it can be acheived... we need a balance and quick.

If we want a marquee signing then we need a counterpart chap in midfield... JJ might make it but not 100% sure.

Anyway when is the last proper entertaining side that has won the league?

[tonyoz]

Who can rem Everton away? We were 2nd best by far and simply lumping it anywhere for the last 30 mins.

Oh! I remember it very well. In particular I remember Hansen on Match of the Day choosing to replay some very hectic ping-pong in the Rovers goalmouth. Everton boots were flying everywhere and there was Colin Hendry already on his knees launching his head at the ball. Totally outrageous but what a man!

And the second leg of the play-off semi final v Derby. I listened to that on the radio....almost unbearably tense......... I don't think sexy football is on anyone's mind in a game like that - it's just too important.

[RoversSG]

What about Rovers v Spurs at Ewood season before last? We were abysmal for 70 minutes! Spurs 1-0 ahead early,totally dominated play thereafter but never scored another.

We had no striker available and played with Samba up front. Dunny came on with about 20 minutes to go.Keeper made a mistake with a few minutes to go, simple header for Samba almost on the line.

1-1, crowd goes barmy---a vital point in the relegation battle when we "deserved" nothing. But wait! another late goal, we go home with an unbelievable 3 points from a match in which we had been dire for most of it!

That win virtually guaranteed our Premier League existence for another season.

No flowing football, no chances created other than the 2 goals, outplayed in every dept for 70 mins of the game. Pure hard slog.

Who didn't go home with a huge smile on their face? I couldn't stop laughing for weeks! One of our most memorable wins but the purists would have left before the end, possibly at half-time!

One of my favorite games in recent years too as i watched it with a spurs supporting fan in a pub full of spurs supporters and seeing the black looks on their faces when we scored a 2nd made it seem worth more than 3 points

[thenodrog]

Blackburn Rovers 3 - 3 Leeds United, shearer hat trick.

I'll never forget that game even if we didn't win, it had it all.

Not quite maj.... breathless stuff but we didn't get 3 points.

[thenodrog]

You wouldn't have remembered playing teams off the park nearly as much had we finished 3rd and not got through the play offs.

That season we had far more resources and better players than anyone in the league (well along with Fulham).

Total opposite of the scenario here.

In an absolute nutshell TGM. Rem Stockport, Tranmere etc? Rem Grimsby away on the coaches even? We are now the Premier Leagues Grimsby.

How can so many people believe in fairy tale stories and comic books? I really do find it very odd.

That season the best managerial performance by a country mile was that of Sam Allardyce. Despite many many millions of pounds parading on the pitch in the blue and white halves and the white shirts of Fulham neither of us could shake off the teamwork and determination of a very ordinary Bolton squad until virtually the very end of the season.

[thenodrog]

............

So it must be all about balance and player combinations.

So IMO the debate is pointless, results football v entertaining football is mute.. there is percentage football (Sam), flash football (Ruud, Zola, Martinez or the new wenger), winning football (A mix) in fact there are lots of styles of plays with dif approaches but it's the mix of players that matters and using them correctly.

Winning sides the world round have that mix and build their tactics around them normally small groups of core players with tactics built for them... most importantly certain partnerships in teams that player who knows where his partner will be next... I am sure you can quote allot of them, I certainly can think of allot off the top of my head.

Problem is that every time we have a player(s) whose individual skills catch the eye someone buys him and the whole thing falls apart. Apart from the Jack Walker years it's always been the same and always will be.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Add VE day and the game against Newcastle to your past matches - yet another game where in all essence we probably should have lost - but as Flowers gleefully sounded out ' we had bottle'

Alot of these posts just highlight that pointless argument this is and more often than not its the result that matters the most.

The enjoyment tends to come/follow with what happens in the game and the experience of the day.

[RevidgeBlue]

What about Rovers v Spurs at Ewood season before last? We were abysmal for 70 minutes! Spurs 1-0 ahead early,totally dominated play thereafter but never scored another.

We had no striker available and played with Samba up front. Dunny came on with about 20 minutes to go.Keeper made a mistake with a few minutes to go, simple header for Samba almost on the line.

1-1, crowd goes barmy---a vital point in the relegation battle when we "deserved" nothing. But wait! another late goal, we go home with an unbelievable 3 points from a match in which we had been dire for most of it!

That win virtually guaranteed our Premier League existence for another season.

No flowing football, no chances created other than the 2 goals, outplayed in every dept for 70 mins of the game. Pure hard slog.

Who didn't go home with a huge smile on their face? I couldn't stop laughing for weeks! One of our most memorable wins but the purists would have left before the end, possibly at half-time!

That win was down to sheer good luck as opposed to sheer good judgement.

Lose that game (as we desrved to do) then we could well have gone down and the Allardyce era would have been viewed entirely differently.

Still, better to be lucky than good, some would say.

[tony gale's mic]

That win was down to sheer good luck as opposed to sheer good judgement.

Lose that game (as we desrved to do) then we could well have gone down and the Allardyce era would have been viewed entirely differently.

Still, better to be lucky than good, some would say.

Spurs were, and are a considerably better side than us. That they dominated that game is no surprise and no disgrace to Sam's management.

But Sam always has been a master of getting results when we didn't always deserve them - and that is the sign of a very good manager.

Consistently playing well and losing has never been considered a positive trait on the other hand.

[jim mk2]

That win was down to sheer good luck as opposed to sheer good judgement.

Lose that game (as we desrved to do) then we could well have gone down and the Allardyce era would have been viewed entirely differently.

Still, better to be lucky than good, some would say.

Rubbish.

Rovers didn't play well but Spurs were no great shakes either.

Rovers won because the Spurs defence went to sleep in the final minutes from 2 set pieces. That's football.

Walking away from that match was one of the best feelings of elation I've had at Ewood in years.

Sam knew how to win the matches that matter; # you might realise the value of that at the end of this season.

[47er]

That win was down to sheer good luck as opposed to sheer good judgement.

Lose that game (as we desrved to do) then we could well have gone down and the Allardyce era would have been viewed entirely differently.

Still, better to be lucky than good, some would say.

Rev----you're taking the discussion back to Sam v Kean which certainly wasn't my intention when I raised the example of the Spurs game to show that its all about results.

If we were lucky, if we deserved to lose, if we might have gone down if we'd lost the game---then victory is all the sweeter and the elation at winning that much greater!

This is even more the case when you overturn a long-held lead and turn the game on its head when no-one could have predicted it.

Don't try to tell me that you left that game in an analytical mood, surely you celebrated like the clappers with everyone else despite us playing rubbish for most of it?

[Majiball]

Not quite maj.... breathless stuff but we didn't get 3 points.

Back then I lived right down south and that result ended my jinx status, so getting a draw with me watching had me jumping for joy.

[philipl]

Rubbish.

Rovers didn't play well but Spurs were no great shakes either.

Rovers won because the Spurs defence went to sleep in the final minutes from 2 set pieces. That's football.

Walking away from that match was one of the best feelings of elation I've had at Ewood in years.

Sam knew how to win the matches that matter; you might realise the value of that at the end of this season.

Agreed

[CrazyIvan]

Going back to the Spurs game that season, yes we were lucky. Did we deserve to win? Hell no. Was/is Sam a lucky manager? Partly yes but he's much more someone who knows how to get a result. The fact we played until the final whistle (something we were sometimes short of under Hughes and Souness) under Sam was down to his approach of having the fittest players on the pitch. The fact we turned off in the first minutes of the second half of quite a few games under Sam is something completely different. Looking at the Spurs home games that particular season and this season under Kean shows how far we have come and how much the result matters. We played well against this seasons Spurs and lost. Their keeper had a blinder. Two seasons ago, we played crap against Spurs and won. From memory, our keeper had a blinder. Which one was more entertaining? Which one provided the biggest grin? Let the debate continue...

What IS entertainment when it comes down to football? I can what hasn't been... Stoke away!

[McClarky]

It's almost as if people are glorying in the negativity of the BFS era. Rejoicing in the memory of a lucky win here and ther while choosing to ignore the glorious history of our club. Some must have cheered when we went to places like Chelsea and meekly rolled over without even trying to cross the half way line. You don't have to be cavalier to play good football, Mark Hughes's team were a testimony to that, but you can be sure that negative tactics almost always lead to failure in this game. I'm not saying that Kean is the answer but it certainly wasn't a long term plan to have that anti-football clown in charge.

[Mattyblue]

It's almost as if people are glorying in the negativity of the BFS era. Rejoicing in the memory of a lucky win here and ther while choosing to ignore the glorious history of our club. Some must have cheered when we went to places like Chelsea and meekly rolled over without even trying to cross the half way line. You don't have to be cavalier to play good football, Mark Hughes's team were a testimony to that, but you can be sure that negative tactics almost always lead to failure in this game. I'm not saying that Kean is the answer but it certainly wasn't a long term plan to have that anti-football clown in charge.

'Anti football', otal nonsense statement, competing in the Premier League on naff all aint 'anti' anything in my book. Allardyce will go down as one of our top managers, Ince= clown.