[Archived] Aston Villa Vs Blackburn Rovers

[BPF]

  On 27/02/2011 at 09:50, roversmum said:

- Erm - wasn't that part of Sam's philosophy? You start off with a point etc etc.

It's the feeling of helplessness that is most difficult to deal with. You can see it happening, but what can you do about it? Fans will only take so much and then there will be protests, most won't know or care about

.

- and who can blame them, many have spent their lives following Rovers?

I agree 100% Mum. It is the feeling of desperation that I can't stand. It is like watching something you love slowly drown but being allowed nowhere near the water to help it.

[thenodrog]

  On 27/02/2011 at 08:59, BPF said:

I was delighted when Sam was fired, delighted but shocked. Let's not kid ourselves about his management, we were a joke under Sam and victories were gained either through good fortune or set pieces. We were dreadful to watch. Sadly, his replacement is not up to the job...

"As ye sow, so shall ye reap." Good fortune, set pieces and even performances do not show in the final table BPF.

Be honest Allardyce rescued us from this situation 3 years ago and after that because of finances and for sale signs he was never given much of a chance to improve the team, yet he still copped for dogs abuse from a section of the supporters. No matter how unpalatable to the play station brigade 4-5-1 with most men behind the ball was the only option after the squad had been stripped of Mark Hughes's remarkeable legacy. Ince and Kean even with all their talk the talk good footballing crap are the complete proof of that. Difference then was that Allardyce had over half a season to turn the club around. This variation of leaderless freefall is allowing us a much shorter countdown.

You appear very confident that we will stay up. How do you come to that conclusion given the serious decline in the teams performances? It's completely obvious that just like Ince the current 'deep thinker' that is Steven Kean has absolutely no leadership qualities whatsoever. I only watch from the stands but it's increasingly obvious that he's 'lost' the players.

[BPF]

  On 27/02/2011 at 09:58, thenodrog said:

"As ye sow, so shall ye reap." Good fortune, set pieces and even performances do not show in the final table BPF.

Be honest Allardyce rescued us from this situation 3 years ago and after that because of finances and for sale signs he was never given much of a chance to improve the team, yet he still copped for dogs abuse from a section of the supporters. No matter how unpalatable to the play station brigade 4-5-1 with most men behind the ball was the only option after the squad had been stripped of Mark Hughes's remarkeable legacy. Ince and Kean even with all their talk the talk good footballing crap are the complete proof of that. Difference then was that Allardyce had over half a season to turn the club around. This variation of leaderless freefall is allowing us a much shorter countdown.

You appear very confident that we will stay up. How do you come to that conclusion given the serious decline in the teams performances? It's completely obvious that just like Ince the current 'deep thinker' that is Steven Kean has absolutely no leadership qualities whatsoever. I only watch from the stands but it's increasingly obvious that he's 'lost' the players.

I find it difficult to disagree with any of what you have said.

[CAPT KAYOS]

  On 27/02/2011 at 09:50, roversmum said:

- Erm - wasn't that part of Sam's philosophy? You start off with a point etc etc.

Indeed it was mum - and a major part of my dislike of Allardyce (and not just him -it annoys me in general with football - especially as its a common thing not to try and not to lose) but his idea was to try and 'nick' a win to term the point.

The way yesterday was not even to do that.

One point to me doesn't really gain anything - I would rather win 1 and lose the next rather than try and get 1 point from each.

Going negative in any game just breeds the mentality through the team and more often than not ends up in defeat as the first instinct is to defend/get rid rather than create/force the issue ie if it doesn't work - especially if you go behind which has been so evident in our games with our ability to lose every game we have conceded first.

[broadsword]

  On 27/02/2011 at 10:00, BPF said:

I find it difficult to disagree with any of what you have said.

I think only RevidgeBlue and BuckyRover would disagree at this juncture.

[CAPT KAYOS]

  On 27/02/2011 at 10:02, Bryan said:

I think only RevidgeBlue and BuckyRover would disagree at this juncture.

And me

  Quote

No matter how unpalatable to the play station brigade 4-5-1 with most men behind the ball was the only option after the squad had been stripped of Mark Hughes's remarkeable legacy.

Not it wasn't and never should be - these are supposed to be professionals capable of playing football - not playing army games with stupid tactical decisions.

It may be called for a times in a match(and as you consistently reminded us Theno - with the players at our disposal) but should not be the sole basis for dictating your game as it was for Allardyce.

[thenodrog]

  On 27/02/2011 at 09:23, BPF said:

I fully understand your point.

The odd thing I don't get though is that against QPR (First half), Liverpool, WBA the players showed that they could play football and more importantly create chances and score goals. What happened?

The treatment of EHD following that shameful attack by Warnock? I was absolutely gobsmacked at the way Kean threw him to the dogs. I've seen managers use situations to get rid of unpopular players but by all accounts EHD was popular within the squad. He was sacrificed because he was unpopular with the owners and their poodle. There is no doubt that performances through Feb have declined each match since. Can you think of another manager that would have done such a thing? Please note Pardews impossible but commendable defence of Taylor this morning.

btw BPF There is something odd here cos the last few posts suggest to me that someone else has access to your keyboard.

[Iceman]

I ask the question again, the football under Kean, is it better than under Allardyce? Imo, apart from the Liverpool game, its been shockingly bad. There needs to be a change in manager, and it has to happen immediately.

[BPF]

  On 27/02/2011 at 10:12, thenodrog said:

btw BPF There is something odd here cos the last few posts suggest to me that someone else has access to your keyboard.

I'm just tired of blindly hoping Theno. I don't think that it's going to be enough.

[thenodrog]

  On 27/02/2011 at 10:08, CAPT KAYOS said:

Not it wasn't and never should be - these are supposed to be professionals capable of playing football - not playing army games with stupid tactical decisions.

That is one of the most naive posts that I have ever read ever ever! I am truly amazed. Honestly Kayos I am!

Our 'supposed to be professionals' are being sent out onto the pitch with the wrong / no tactics against 11 other 'supposed to be professionals' who are playing to tactical instruction and losing. Tactics are the extra man. Your dismissal of tactics reminds me of my time watching my 7 year old lad when he first played for the local cub scouts.

Mourhino's tactics won the Champions league for a much less talented Milan than Barca, but for a shocking miss by Arjen Robben, tactics would have won the Dutch would have won the World Cup against Spains better players. The greatest sportsman / boxer that the world has ever seen won the Heavyweight title against the much stronger Foreman on nothing but tactics and cussedness. I could go on and on.

[den]

  On 27/02/2011 at 10:12, thenodrog said:

The treatment of EHD following that shameful attack by Warnock? I was absolutely gobsmacked at the way Kean threw him to the dogs. I've seen managers use situations to get rid of unpopular players but by all accounts EHD was popular within the squad. He was sacrificed because he was unpopular with the owners and their poodle.

Just as an add on to that point Gord, Bobby Robson could have got rid of half of his squad at the time he managed Newcastle. Bowyer, Bellamy and Kieron Dyer caused him no end of trouble off and on the pitch. Robson was wise enough though, to keep hold of them, manage them during the week and get them out on the park on Saturday afternoon - performing for him, the team and the fans. That was one of the best sides Newcastle have ever had. Bobby Robson knew that his job was to get the best side he possibly could onto the park.

[Bobby G]

Den, you are comparing one of the best English managers of all time with someone who had never managed a side 3 months ago!

[thenodrog]

  On 27/02/2011 at 10:32, Bobby G said:

Den, you are comparing one of the best English managers of all time with someone who had never managed a side 3 months ago!

Steady Bobby. I think you need to use the word 'Premier' instead of 'English'.

[Roost]

  On 27/02/2011 at 00:47, AggyBlue said:

Did you walk it?

Yeh, why do you ask?

[den]

  On 27/02/2011 at 10:32, Bobby G said:

Den, you are comparing one of the best English managers of all time with someone who had never managed a side 3 months ago!

Yeah. Completely intentional!

[CAPT KAYOS]

  On 27/02/2011 at 10:21, thenodrog said:

That is one of the most naive posts that I have ever read ever ever! I am truly amazed. Honestly Kayos I am!

Our 'supposed to be professionals' are being sent out onto the pitch with the wrong / no tactics against 11 other 'supposed to be professionals' who are playing to tactical instruction and losing. Tactics are the extra man. Your dismissal of tactics reminds me of my time watching my 7 year old lad when he first played for the local cub scouts.

Mourhino's tactics won the Champions league for a much less talented Milan than Barca, but for a shocking miss by Arjen Robben, tactics would have won the Dutch would have won the World Cup against Spains better players. The greatest sportsman / boxer that the world has ever seen won the Heavyweight title against the much stronger Foreman on nothing but tactics and cussedness. I could go on and on.

I didn't say no tactics Theno - I said stupid tactics - setting out for a draw even before a ball is kicked is stupid in my book.

Marking a man out of game, playing on a weak point of the opposition etc all valid - but conceding a victory even before a game has kicked off is nonsensical IMO

In the examples you gave I'm sure as hell none when out with the idea to 'draw' so to speak - however comparing one on one to eleven v eleven is ridiculous - there are so many variables in a game of football anything can change the outcome.

451 in itself is not a bad tactic/or formation - as long as its executed properly - but as mentioned and you know - we didn't/ still don't have the players to use this to our advantage.

[Bobby G]

I dont know if people here watch European football that much but have a look at Andres Villa Boas, the Porto manager. He started off as Mourinho's analyst, who did his scouting, was then promoted to coach, and now he is the youngest ever Porto manager in their best season in history till date. He's 34. Just look at his body language on the side-line and compare it to the sterile confused, clueless look our manager has on the touchline.

[Amo]

  On 27/02/2011 at 09:49, Mercerman said:

All valid points about Olsson at full back.

Give him a chance. He could be the new Evra (sorry, Chuck! )

Kean really needs to keep it simple and stop dicking around. Olsson & Hoilett out-wide, failing that put Mame Diouf there. We need to maintain that pace on the flanks. Like for like. Dunn or Formica behind Kalinic in attack, with Jones in the holding role, and someone like Emerton doing the rest of the leg-work in midfield.

[Bobby G]

Why has Mame been completely thrown out of the first team picture? Benjani has had more minutes in recent weeks.

[Kamy100]

This is Kamy.

Desperately poor performance yesterday which has left me feeling that the club is now firmly on the slippery slope towards the Championship. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, especially as Kean has had 2 clear weeks to prepare for this match. We were very lucky in the first half not to be down by a couple of goals. The second half was just a horror show.

From what I have heard the owners were not happy with yesterday's display and there could be some question over Kean's future. Both he and Rovers now have a huge game against Fulham next week. Normally I would be against changing the manager at this stage of the season but the last 4 games have reminded me of the "Ince Era" so a change may have to be made to give us a chance, the positive is that we are still 4 points clear of the relegation places, if a new manager was bought in he would after the Fulham game have 2 weeks to prepare for the do or die game against Blackpool and a further 2 weeks to prepare for the Arsenal, that is a total of 4 clear weeks for a competent manager to get this sorted.

I don't think that Kean has any real authority, players keep saying that they like him (always a bad sign) and refer to him as "keano" rather than gaffer, I know this is only a small thing but to me it appears they still view him as Kean the coach rather than Kean the manager, I firmly believe that one of the reasons he gave senior players such as Nelsen, Roberts and Salgado new contracts was to try and win their respect.

[Bobby G]

You can't buy respect. Unfortunately for Keano.

[Roost]

With the exception of Robinson & Jones, I am struggling to remember when I sat through are more inept team performance.

MGP was back to his lazy best yesterday.

Andrews was just an embarrassment.

Grella should never start another game

I lost count of the amount of times these three culprits not only lost the ball but actually just seemed to pass to the opposition.

RSC must wonder what his role is when playing in that formation. Every time he got the ball he had to go backwards as he was the lone man up front and nobody was willing to help him.

It's the first time I have been to a game when both sets of supporters booed the players off at half time.

The chronic lack of rovers fans at the game accurately reflects the crap we are being served up.

Venkys - what are you doing to my club?

[Majiball]

  On 27/02/2011 at 10:12, thenodrog said:

The treatment of EHD following that shameful attack by Warnock? I was absolutely gobsmacked at the way Kean threw him to the dogs. I've seen managers use situations to get rid of unpopular players but by all accounts EHD was popular within the squad. He was sacrificed because he was unpopular with the owners and their poodle. There is no doubt that performances through Feb have declined each match since. Can you think of another manager that would have done such a thing? Please note Pardews impossible but commendable defence of Taylor this morning.

btw BPF There is something odd here cos the last few posts suggest to me that someone else has access to your keyboard.

The Diouf scenario for me was a great opportunity for Kean to galvanise his players and for him to show the world he will protect them. Despite what he did If Kean had defended him and taken the arm round the shoulder approach and used the incident to get Diouf on his side, we would get a different out come. It would have shown the players that Kean would protect and look after all of them if they ###### up. Instead the players have seen that if you (Please don't use that word again) up you get drop kicked out the door asap with no loyalty shown. It's not what any player want to see and now they all know what will happen to them if shoe is on the other foot in the future.

Team spirit and unity gone.

I assume Mame dioufs disappearance has something to do with Ferguson.

[Amo]

  On 27/02/2011 at 10:59, Majiball said:

I assume Mame dioufs disappearance has something to do with Ferguson.

Or something to do with his namesake. Wasn't El-Hadji a hero of his?

[BPF]

Earlier I posted that Kean will be here till the end of the season.

I forgot to add that the above statement is based on the Fulham game.

There were gaskets blown in Pune yesterday.