[Archived] Whalley Arms Parking fines

[Manchester Blue]

Hi there,

Just wondered if any of the members who live near or use the car park next to Whalley Arms could advise or assist me. Parked in there last week on the 16th and went to pay as have done previously and it was a new machine which stated it was out of order. Nothing amazing in that, it's happened at other car parks so i left the car whilst we had a coffee and a walk and left about 90 mins later. A week later i get a £90 fine through the door stating times entered and left with no number to ring but an address to sent challenges.

I'm a bit annoyed with myself for not taking a picture but to be honest it never occurred to me, i've parked on other car parks before with the machine out of order and had no issue. I've also parked on this place before but we only go up every so often as live in Manchester. I did a quick google and there is link to a story in the Clitheroe Advertiser about anger at Whalley Arms parking fines but the link isn't working or the story has gone. So just thought i'd quickly check if anyone was aware of this happening to them and what they did.

I don't mind paying a fine if i've made a mistake or overstayed etc, but i'm damned if i'm paying £90 for what was a £2 stay and i was perfectly happy to pay!!

[thenodrog]

Hi there,

Just wondered if any of the members who live near or use the car park next to Whalley Arms could advise or assist me. Parked in there last week on the 16th and went to pay as have done previously and it was a new machine which stated it was out of order. Nothing amazing in that, it's happened at other car parks so i left the car whilst we had a coffee and a walk and left about 90 mins later. A week later i get a £90 fine through the door stating times entered and left with no number to ring but an address to sent challenges.

I'm a bit annoyed with myself for not taking a picture but to be honest it never occurred to me, i've parked on other car parks before with the machine out of order and had no issue. I've also parked on this place before but we only go up every so often as live in Manchester. I did a quick google and there is link to a story in the Clitheroe Advertiser about anger at Whalley Arms parking fines but the link isn't working or the story has gone. So just thought i'd quickly check if anyone was aware of this happening to them and what they did.

I don't mind paying a fine if i've made a mistake or overstayed etc, but i'm damned if i'm paying £90 for what was a £2 stay and i was perfectly happy to pay!!

Great scam that! Especially as I'd think it a fair bet that there was nothing wrong with that machine either.

If you write and the fine is still upheld then forget Whalley and simply find somewhere else to visit on principle..... Don't get mad, get even is the motto to apply imo.

Got to say that after getting two highly unfair and dubious tickets within weeks that I've not been to Blackburn town centre now for two years unless it's to somewhere on the periphery where I don't have to pay or to a shop with it's own car park. Truth is I'm missing nothing either cos it's dying on it's feet anyway. Shame for the traders of course and I feel mighty sorry for them but until we have a council that does not practice / support extortion then Clitheroe and Preston and out of town businesses will continue to benefit from my outgoings.

[Aberdeen Blue]

If this is a private car park, and going off the exorbitant "fine" I suspect it is, then they have absolutely zero enforceability. Basically forget about it and bin any future correspondence from the con artists.

[RibbleValleyRover]

My grandfather was hit with a fine shortly after that company from Chorley?, had taken over control of it. He has to go to the doctors at least once a week and he is a disabled driver (blue badge) that didn't pay previously.

I read the same article in the Clitheroe Advertiser, looks like many people have been hit by fines and are angry about it. They have cameras there that record your registration as you enter/leave the carpark and they check it against the machine records to see if you have bought a ticket or not.

I've found a cached version of that article:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Sds9ZvL_o-sJ:www.clitheroeadvertiser.co.uk/valleynews/Anger-at-Whalley-Arms-car.6714482.jp+whalley+arms+car+park&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.co.uk

In your case perhaps they might have logs on their end that show that there was a machine malfunction meaning you couldn't obtain a ticket? Good luck with that though, from reading that article those that contested had the charges bumped up and the company was difficult to deal with.

[Manchester Blue]

Thanks for providing the link and info RVR certainly lets me know what I am dealing with. Sadly i'm inclined to agree tith Theno that they are going to deny there was anything wrong with the machine and i'm stuffed. Fuming as well as the parking charge would have been £2 which i was perfectly happy and prepared to pay. I've appealed anyway but without much hope, will definitely be voting with my feet if unsuccesful.

[Biddy]

Thanks for providing the link and info RVR certainly lets me know what I am dealing with. Sadly i'm inclined to agree tith Theno that they are going to deny there was anything wrong with the machine and i'm stuffed. Fuming as well as the parking charge would have been £2 which i was perfectly happy and prepared to pay. I've appealed anyway but without much hope, will definitely be voting with my feet if unsuccesful.

Found this thread relating to Parking Eye who run the car park Linky shame you have already tried to appeal.

And how about this 20 page thread on money saving export Parking Eye - Nasty Tricks

post 2 has this interesting advice

If you get a parking note from anyone other than the police or the council.

Do not pay, Do not pay, Do not pay, These 'fines' are not fines, they are invoices and as such are unenforceable.

Ignore them at all costs and never acknowledge them.

The baords are littered with this advice. "

[Manchester Blue]

Cheers Biddy and also to Aberdeen Blue, it was your comment that got me thinking so I googled Parking Eye and found the thread Biddy did on Moneysavingexpert. I strongly recommend it to anyone who gets any of these notices as like others have said they are not fines but invoices and have no legal basis. I'll update later on if i;m wrong but I thoroughly intend to ignore any further correspondence.

[bazza]

Just for information..........

I once got a parking ticket in Bolton for on-street parking. The ticket machine was out of order.

I rang the Council and was told that traffic wardens are instructed to issue tickets for non-display of a parking ticket regardless of whether or not a machine is working.

I was advised to write to the Council stating the time, date and place of the parking machine.

They confirmed that their records showed the fault on the machine at that time and cancelled my parking fine.

[colin]

Cheers Biddy and also to Aberdeen Blue, it was your comment that got me thinking so I googled Parking Eye and found the thread Biddy did on Moneysavingexpert. I strongly recommend it to anyone who gets any of these notices as like others have said they are not fines but invoices and have no legal basis. I'll update later on if i;m wrong but I thoroughly intend to ignore any further correspondence.

That's right. the Whalley Arms car park is NOT public highway, so it's a civil matter rather than decriminalised parking.

So if they want to take you to court then it's a civil offence and non-payment of a disputed invoice. Just keep writing back to say that you were willing to pay but the machine that THEY provided was not working.

Keep a copy of all correspondence. They probably won't take the matter to court as it will cost them far more than the £90 they reckon you owe them.

[Aberdeen Blue]

That's right. the Whalley Arms car park is NOT public highway, so it's a civil matter rather than decriminalised parking.

So if they want to take you to court then it's a civil offence and non-payment of a disputed invoice. Just keep writing back to say that you were willing to pay but the machine that THEY provided was not working.

Keep a copy of all correspondence. They probably won't take the matter to court as it will cost them far more than the £90 they reckon you owe them.

The best thing to do is NOT enter into any correspondence with them at all; if you respond it just encourages tham to keep hounding you Just recycle anything that drops on the mat!

[elliekak]

Hi Manchester Blue,

I visited the Whalley Arms car park at 4pm on the 15th + had exactly the same problem as you. I actually put £1 in the machine and had it spat back out - it said 'out of service. It doesn't say anywhere on the car park what to do in this situation. And if I had driven straight out of car park I probably would have been charged anyway.

It seems that this machine must have been off-line from at least Tuesday afternoon to the Wednesday when you were there. They must have automatically sent a hundred letters out. If they were a reasonable company they would surely understand the situation. Their machine would have needed an engineer to reset it, plenty of people will have written letters etc... However, this does not seem to be a respectable or honourable company at all. And I believe that entering into a dialogue (by writing to them) is giving credence to their claims + making them think that you hold any faith in their 'appeals' process. There is no appeals process. These people do not operate within any other law than their own.

I've looked into the best way to respond to this. I've read all the Martin Lewis(moneysaving expert) forums + contacted a traffic solicitor. Apparently, the best course of action is to totally ignore the letter. Even if we had done something wrong, they would have to take us to court (costs £150 for them to file inital paperwork). Once in court, they would have to prove who was driving + also 'damages' to the car park, which of course there were none. I live locally + have been back to the car park to check; there is no info. anywhere of what to do in this situation. You could not have done anything differently.

Personally, I've looked into this so much because my husband is extremely paranoid + does not enjoy threatening letters. Though this company have never taken anyone to court, + surely would have no recourse in your + my situation, I've written them a letter just explaining that their machine was off-line. I fully expect this to be a waste of my time. But my husband would like to cover himself; to know that he did everything he possibly could, as we did nothing wrong.

Anyway, I just wanted to reassure you. And let you know that I am in the same boat. I hate it when good, law-abiding people get ripped off. I know people who have paid fines in similar situations just because they are scared of the letters. You should expect to recieve another letter from them, then one from ccs , & in a few cases a letter from a solicitors. Don't be afraid of these letters. It costs them £5 to get a standard solicitor letter.

I await their response to my letter explaining the situation + if, as i expect, they reject my valid reason, i will be going straight to the Clitheroe Advertiser (local newspaper) with this.

[BiggusLaddus]

The best thing to do is NOT enter into any correspondence with them at all; if you respond it just encourages tham to keep hounding you Just recycle anything that drops on the mat!

Absolutely - ignore ALL correspondence. Replying even once marks you down as a 'live one' who is worth bullying just in case you pay.

These are civil matters and the only recourse that they have is to take the driver to civil court. While they may be able to get the details of the registered keeper from the DVLA, they can only persue a claim against the driver, as that is who entered into a contract with them by parking there. The bad thing for them is that you are under no obligation whatsoever to provide any information to them to help them to identify the driver of the car.

Repeat - ignore everythying.

If you get a ticket from the council then that is totally different and they have much more power, so pay up or appeal through the official channels.

[Manchester Blue]

Thanks for the response Ellie certainly makes me feel a bit better that someone else has confirmed the machine was indeed faulty, as you say how many others have been caught.

[1864roverite]

Private car park and a very reasonable excuse for being unable to pay. Do NOT pay the fine, it wont be enforced as it is a debt under £500 and it would cost the company over £1000 just to even get a summons to take you to court and then on the grounds of probability you would be exonerated without any shadow of a doubt.

I would expect you to receive a letter issuing some sort of court threat of you dont pay or a letter indicating the machine was in good working order.

CHALLENGE and you will succeed.