[Archived] Steve Kean

[Commondore]

Shhhteve Maclaren won the Dutch league for goodness sake. It's about as tough as the Scottish Prem!

From t'internet....

"Bolton reached the League Cup final in 2004, but lost to Middlesbrough. Nevertheless, Bolton finished eighth in the league, at the time their highest finish in their Premiership history. In 2005 Bolton finished sixth in the league, thus earning qualification for the UEFA Cup for the first time in their history. The following season, they reached the last 32 but were eliminated by French team Marseille as they lost 2–1 on aggregate. In April 2007, towards the end of 2006–07 season, manager Allardyce resigned.[18] In his final four seasons at Bolton, Allardyce had recorded consecutive top ten finishes, a record of consistency bettered only by the big four of Chelsea, Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal."

Look commondore Allardyce is no Arsene Wenger but for a Prem club of very limited resources he is the safest pair of hands around. Who do you think the Rovers most resemble in size stature and finance Bolton or Spurs?

A safe pair of hands... Sure, I agree with that. Allardyce knows one way to play football, and is very good at it. However, I'm confident that with a skilled and experienced manager at the helm Rovers could achieve the same results as with Allardyce in charge utilizing a different type of football, and in the long run achieve even better results with good financial backing.

And sure, I'll give you that the Dutch league isn't the toughest, but Jol has got far more in way of trophies and achievements than Allardyce has gathered, therefore I would consider Jol a better manager.

[blue_and_white]

I always dispute this claim that football is just entertainment. It is first and foremost a competitive sport where the aim is to win. The first people who invented football didn't do it to entertain people, they did it to create a competitive game people would enjoy playing. Its popularity as a spectator sport was an added bonus. Therefore all managers number 1 priority should be to win and number 2 priority should be to entertain. Owen Coyle doesn't play passing football to entertain the Bolton fans, he plays it because its the style he's most comfortable with in coaching and organising and therefore the one he'll get the most wins from. Secondly many of the more committed fans also treat football as a religion, if I went to church I wouldn't care how flamboyantly the priest conducted the mass as long as he got it right. For me Sam got it right results-wise more than pretty much any other manager could have done in his situation and I enjoyed every single one of the many home wins we got regardless of how it was done.

Also even from an entertainment point of view, not everyone prefers passing over direct play. If passing is done without tempo it is truly mind-numbing, the ball spends 80% of the game in the middle third and chances can be counted on one hand. A direct style gets the ball in the box as often as possible, thats what I find exciting, and as thats the point at which the fans behind the goal often stand up, I'd say many people feel the same whether they want to intellectually admit it or not. Thats not to say Sam got direct style down to a tee, I'd say he did that at Bolton. The reason he didn't yet do it here is because he was given the least investment from the owners that any Rovers manager has had in the last 20 years.

[thenodrog]

We play hoofball as plan B, not plan A, and we utilise wingers.

Thats silly talk, Allardyce used wingers all the time. He expected them to defend too but that is quite right. btw Where did you see our right winger v NUFC?

Thankfully a return to Allardyce tactics after a horrific 1st half performance stopped Blackpool getting all 3 points.

It would serve you better in getting your points across if you maintained some credibility in your arguments braddock.

[braddock]

Thats silly talk, Allardyce used wingers all the time. He expected them to defend too but that is quite right. btw Where did you see our right winger v NUFC?

Thankfully a return to Allardyce tactics after a horrific 1st half performance stopped Blackpool getting all 3 points.

It would serve you better in getting your points across if you maintained some credibility in your arguments braddock.

Yes, Hoilett was great under Allardyce. Put on as a sub and having the ball booted at him.

Some games it isn't going to work and people will have bad games, the wingers aren't going to dominate every time, but you have to admit we utilise the wingers far more now. And there is more support for the lone striker if we play that system.

[beanie]

Thats silly talk, Allardyce used wingers all the time. He expected them to defend too but that is quite right. btw Where did you see our right winger v NUFC?

Thankfully a return to Allardyce tactics after a horrific 1st half performance stopped Blackpool getting all 3 points.

It would serve you better in getting your points across if you maintained some credibility in your arguments braddock.

He did try to use wingers but most of the time it was diouf trying to win fouls out wide so we could load the pen box or failing that win a throw so we could do the same under kean at least we try and work it in for a shot or play players in although i do think we would have been safe by now.

[tony gale's mic]

Yes, Hoilett was great under Allardyce. Put on as a sub and having the ball booted at him.

Some games it isn't going to work and people will have bad games, the wingers aren't going to dominate every time, but you have to admit we utilise the wingers far more now. And there is more support for the lone striker if we play that system.

Didn't Allardyce introduce Olsson to the left wing whereas Kean is currently playing him at left back?

Hoilett was always going to be much better this season, he was a 19 year old lad playing his first season at the top level last season.

[Jimmy612]

TGM, i completely agree about our style of play. Pulis is a good example. However, it's important to remember that football is a form of entertainment. Unfortunatey Kean tried to change the system too quickly. This can't really be disputed. However some of the other claims aimed at the man (not by yourself) have been obscene. If nothing else he seems to have the dressing room. Thats a big plus.

Pulis has boxed clever this year. There was a distinct shift in style with the players he signed. He soon realised a) he was out of his depth or b ) the league was going to be pretty tight. Either way, his 'footballers' left the club and Stoke reverted to type.

I don't mind Kean. But his biggest mistake has been changing our style to quickly. If he had been clever (assuming he knew he'd get the job full time) he should have kept our usual direct game and ensured say 40 pounts before making us more expansive. Thus giving him circa 5-6 months to bed in a new style and new faces.

I really do get confused when people appear to think going down to Ewood is a hobby and you must be entertained! Obviously football has gone to huge levels of finance since BRFC was created but back then it was all about supporting your town team and being really proud of where that town stood against all the other towns or big city clubs.

Now all our fans want to do is sit there and expect to get entertained. Under Allaryce we should have been proud of our ability to hold our own in one of the biggest stages of competitive football! Instead a vast majority demanded football which would not allow us to retain our status because of the level of players.

Real shame a good manager, retaining our very decent status and pride (above Burnley!! above most other lancashire teams!) was not appreciated when he should of been

[Jimmy612]

I always dispute this claim that football is just entertainment. It is first and foremost a competitive sport where the aim is to win. The first people who invented football didn't do it to entertain people, they did it to create a competitive game people would enjoy playing. Its popularity as a spectator sport was an added bonus. Therefore all managers number 1 priority should be to win and number 2 priority should be to entertain. Owen Coyle doesn't play passing football to entertain the Bolton fans, he plays it because its the style he's most comfortable with in coaching and organising and therefore the one he'll get the most wins from. Secondly many of the more committed fans also treat football as a religion, if I went to church I wouldn't care how flamboyantly the priest conducted the mass as long as he got it right. For me Sam got it right results-wise more than pretty much any other manager could have done in his situation and I enjoyed every single one of the many home wins we got regardless of how it was done.

Also even from an entertainment point of view, not everyone prefers passing over direct play. If passing is done without tempo it is truly mind-numbing, the ball spends 80% of the game in the middle third and chances can be counted on one hand. A direct style gets the ball in the box as often as possible, thats what I find exciting, and as thats the point at which the fans behind the goal often stand up, I'd say many people feel the same whether they want to intellectually admit it or not. Thats not to say Sam got direct style down to a tee, I'd say he did that at Bolton. The reason he didn't yet do it here is because he was given the least investment from the owners that any Rovers manager has had in the last 20 years.

I just wrote something like that but it was nowhere near as good so i've deleted it. 100% spot on

[thenodrog]

He did try to use wingers but most of the time it was diouf trying to win fouls out wide so we could load the pen box or failing that win a throw so we could do the same under kean at least we try and work it in for a shot or play players in although i do think we would have been safe by now.

Rem Olsson was moved forward by Allardyce in Balesque fashion. As for your last line .... I rest my case beanie.

[beanie]

Rem Olsson was moved forward by Allardyce in Balesque fashion. As for your last line .... I rest my case beanie.

I'm not here to have ago at sam as i thought he was a good boss for us but i do see there were flaws to his style and it would put people off playing the percentages all the time but he's gone and im a rovers fan so i need to get behind everyone connected to us and for better or worse thats kean atm so until the end of the season i'll be hoping he can dig us out. Not sure everyone feels the same. Thats not a dig at you by the way drog.

[Miker]

Yes, Hoilett is playing out of his skin right now under Kean, we've established that already. But, both him and Olsson were first used out wide by Sam during his reign where they proved their worth. Hoilett, despite making a lot of sub appearances under Sam, frequently did well, but seemed to be lacking composure on the ball. He's improved that immensely now under Kean and has been chipping in with a few goals.

One thing I have to mention is I have always been annoyed by people claiming that Sam was one-dimensional and didn't have any ideas, but in just the 1-2 seasons he had with us, he proved quite the opposite. He utilised players in completely new positions to them to great effect:

-Pedersen, utilised as a central attacking midfielder where he had a bit of a renaissance

-Dunn, built a formation around him where he was able to shine and be at his creative best

-Olsson, moved him from LB to LM where he put in tremendous performances and has become a bit of a revelation

-Andrews, played him as an emergency right back where he did surprisingly well

-Jones, gave him a chance first of all in central defence where he excelled, and then shifted him to central midfield where he has been absolutely key for us this season

-Samba, utilised him as a striker when we had our injury crisis where he managed to do a good enough job to get us results

I might actually be missing a few others, but you can see from that that Sam knew how to change things around and get the most out of this team, under any circumstances.

I don't see that under Kean, despite claims from the Venky's camp that Kean is a 'thinking man', all I see is someone that is at best a good motivator. So when I think about our last few games, I'm resting my hopes on Kean being able to motivate the side to win games and put in a strong enough performance to do it, but I don't expect Kean to somehow outclass his opponents tactically.

[beanie]

Yes, Hoilett is playing out of his skin right now under Kean, we've established that already. But, both him and Olsson were first used out wide by Sam during his reign where they proved their worth. Hoilett, despite making a lot of sub appearances under Sam, frequently did well, but seemed to be lacking composure on the ball. He's improved that immensely now under Kean and has been chipping in with a few goals.

One thing I have to mention is I have always been annoyed by people claiming that Sam was one-dimensional and didn't have any ideas, but in just the 1-2 seasons he had with us, he proved quite the opposite. He utilised players in completely new positions to them to great effect:

-Pedersen, utilised as a central attacking midfielder where he had a bit of a renaissance

-Dunn, built a formation around him where he was able to shine and be at his creative best

-Olsson, moved him from LB to LM where he put in tremendous performances and has become a bit of a revelation

-Andrews, played him as an emergency right back where he did surprisingly well

-Jones, gave him a chance first of all in central defence where he excelled, and then shifted him to central midfield where he has been absolutely key for us this season

-Samba, utilised him as a striker when we had our injury crisis where he managed to do a good enough job to get us results

I might actually be missing a few others, but you can see from that that Sam knew how to change things around and get the most out of this team, under any circumstances.

I don't see that under Kean, despite claims from the Venky's camp that Kean is a 'thinking man', all I see is someone that is at best a good motivator. So when I think about our last few games, I'm resting my hopes on Kean being able to motivate the side to win games and put in a strong enough performance to do it, but I don't expect Kean to somehow outclass his opponents tactically.

Paul robinson as the deep lying playmaker u missed.

[Jimmy612]

Paul robinson as the deep lying playmaker u missed.

A very useful tool, during his reign. More evidence of utilising our best assets

[beanie]

A very useful tool, during his reign. More evidence of utilising our best assets

So very true which is why i'd say there is a happy medium between trying to play football and going a bit more direct. We went direct when it was desprate against blackpool and earned a point which was vital and against arsenal it was refreshing to see us try to play it out instead of gifting them the ball back all the time which in turn lifted the pressure. You can risk losing the ball at home to blackpool as no offence to them you have a good chance of winning it back quickly against the better teams you can't just give it away or you don't see it again for a long time. So Kean needs to see when to play football and when to use the more direct play which the team seem to be starting to do a bit better now hopefully its not to late.

[booth]

You know what Booth,as you clearly seem to get off on conspiracy theories so much here's one for you...if my Auntie had bo**ox do you think she'd be my uncle?

I did suspect some strange breeding amongst your lineage yeti dog. Thanks for clearing that up

[Miker]

You can risk losing the ball at home to blackpool as no offence to them you have a good chance of winning it back quickly against the better teams you can't just give it away or you don't see it again for a long time.

Yes, that's all correct, but getting 1 point off Arsenal is no great feat. Plenty of teams have gotten points from the better teams, including us under Sam and I'm sure every team has gone a different way about it. Arsenal for instance have always been a bit suspect at the back in the air, so going direct is a viable option. On the other hand, if we were passing it on the ground out of our own half, it takes one misplaced pass or brilliant interception and suddenly Arsenal's speedy attackers are on a rampage in your 6 yard box.

There isn't a "100% correct" way to setup your team.

[BangkokRover]

A safe pair of hands... Sure, I agree with that. Allardyce knows one way to play football, and is very good at it. However, I'm confident that with a skilled and experienced manager at the helm Rovers could achieve the same results as with Allardyce in charge utilizing a different type of football, and in the long run achieve even better results with good financial backing.

And sure, I'll give you that the Dutch league isn't the toughest, but Jol has got far more in way of trophies and achievements than Allardyce has gathered, therefore I would consider Jol a better manager.

Also remember you can only beat the teams in your league. Winning any league is a great achievement.

[Mattyblue]

Braddock is doing the Bolton preview?

A long post of WUMmery getting eberyones backs up before a crucial home game.

'Kean has us playing better football' 'Allardyce deserved the chop' yada yada yada.

Hehe haha, he's a tinker that one.

[Stuart]

Couple of observations:

Every week that goes by with Kean as manager seems to push Allardyce closer and closer to Fergie status. And every poor away day and odd tactical substitution is further and further from the memory.

Also, cleverly people have turned the argument into a straight Sam v Steve debate when it was never anticipated to only be a choice between the two.

But we are where we are and it isn't changing for our last 6 games. We need to stick together, get behind the team and keep the faith.

[beanie]

Yes, that's all correct, but getting 1 point off Arsenal is no great feat. Plenty of teams have gotten points from the better teams, including us under Sam and I'm sure every team has gone a different way about it. Arsenal for instance have always been a bit suspect at the back in the air, so going direct is a viable option. On the other hand, if we were passing it on the ground out of our own half, it takes one misplaced pass or brilliant interception and suddenly Arsenal's speedy attackers are on a rampage in your 6 yard box.

There isn't a "100% correct" way to setup your team.

True and one of our best chances during that game came from a big punt down the pitch that nzonzi got to before almunia. But i'm saying i enjoyed watching a game at arsenal involving rovers for the first time in a long while. I Think we need to know when to play and when to use the big men and if we do this we can survive. I'm not a hardline Kean fan in the past i defended Sam but he's gone now so i'll defend Kean to as at the min like it or not his sucsess or failure is tied to ours.

[Gav]

Braddock is doing the Bolton preview?

A long post of WUMmery getting eberyones backs up before a crucial home game.

'Kean has us playing better football' 'Allardyce deserved the chop' yada yada yada.

Hehe haha, he's a tinker that one.

I look forward to reading it, never read a bad one yet, people that dedicate time to do this deserve nothing but respect, good lad Braddock

[Mattyblue]

Not if his purpose is just to wind up the board, but I reserve judgement

[Jimmy612]

.

Also, cleverly people have turned the argument into a straight Sam v Steve debate when it was never anticipated to only be a choice between the two.

It was always going to happen, Steve Kean directly replaced SA as manager, results since then have made it easy to compare the two in favour of Allardyce. Just out of interest Jisty, who would you have preferred to see as a replacement for Sam, and were you pleased when he was sacked?

[den]

Didn't I read somewhere that Anderson tried to persuade Mrs D to keep Sam (until the summer?).

"Yeah, get rid of Sam and his boring football - and appoint me a yes man that promising you coach. 'ang on, you've sacked him now? Oh gawd! I said wait 'til the summer".

[ABBEY]

"Yeah, get rid of Sam and his boring football - and appoint me a yes man that promising you coach. 'ang on, you've sacked him now? Oh gawd! I said wait 'til the summer".

Round and round wherever we go sometimetime later ya gonna get this..ROADSTAR btw;)