[Archived] Steve Kean

[chris]

Of course, those stats by themselves don't say much by themselves.

Does that mean that if SM was given the Rovers job that he would likely do better than SA? Even though he would likely be given far less money than he was at Boro? How much money must a McClaren have to be a success at a club like Rovers?

The answer my friend is blowin' in the wind, the answer is blowin' in the world...

Exactly he wasted a lot of money at boro

[MeanGreenMachine]

Based on fact or myth? Likely the latter.

Add to his list of credentials bringing through Cattermole, A Johnson, Downing, Wheater. Also didnt he field a full 11 which was born within 30miles of the stadium? Impressive no?

And lets not forget after his spell as england manager (which i think he will admit he wasn't ready for) he moves to the 4/5th best side in Holland and goes an wins the league.

He goes to Wolfsburg and has to manage with one hand behind his back while players are brought and sold beneath him.

So thats SM with a better win % and better trophy cabinet then SA. But SA is easily the better manager...

[FourLaneBlue]

Based on fact or myth? Likely the latter.

Add to his list of credentials bringing through Cattermole, A Johnson, Downing, Wheater. Also didnt he field a full 11 which was born within 30miles of the stadium? Impressive no?

I think it was something to do with all the players having come through the youth system. Wasn't that Southgate, though?

[tony gale's mic]

Based on fact or myth? Likely the latter.

Add to his list of credentials bringing through Cattermole, A Johnson, Downing, Wheater. Also didnt he field a full 11 which was born within 30miles of the stadium? Impressive no?

And lets not forget after his spell as england manager (which i think he will admit he wasn't ready for) he moves to the 4/5th best side in Holland and goes an wins the league.

He goes to Wolfsburg and has to manage with one hand behind his back while players are brought and sold beneath him.

So thats SM with a better win % and better trophy cabinet then SA. But SA is easily the better manager...

Sam's record with Bolton was far more impressive than McLaren's in charge of Boro. Funny how you don't mention that now isn't it!

I bet you give McLaren the credit for bringing through those young players but don't give Sam credit for bringing through the young players at Rovers, right?

In 2002-03 his net spend was + £27 million. In 2005-06 his net spend was well over + £10 million. That's money that Sam never had at Bolton or Rovers.

And Twente weren't the fourth of fifth best side in the Netherlands before he arrived. They were the second best side before he arrived as they'd finished 2nd the season before. Without him they're top of the table again this year.

The conditions under which he managed at Wolfsburg were the exact same conditions under which they'd finished 8th the season before, yet when he left they were one point from the relegation zone.

So basically, you've been making things up and deliberately excluding huge sections of Sam's career in order to prove some petty point against our last manager.

He did a good job in Holland and can be a decent enough manager, but overall he's not a patch on Sam Allardyce.

[A cup of beans]

I think it was something to do with all the players having come through the youth system. Wasn't that Southgate, though?

southgate didnt use the youth system to his advantage. he let a few leave.. cattermole, danny graham and continually shipped adam johnson out on loan.

clown of a manager.

credit has to go to stuart parnaby's dad who is head of the academy.

[chaddyrovers]

Sam's record with Bolton was far more impressive than McLaren's in charge of Boro. Funny how you don't mention that now isn't it!

I bet you give McLaren the credit for bringing through those young players but don't give Sam credit for bringing through the young players at Rovers, right?

I agree that Sam should be given the credit for the amount of youth players we have got in the first team.

southgate didnt use the youth system to his advantage. he let a few leave.. cattermole, danny graham and continually shipped adam johnson out on loan.

clown of a manager.

credit has to go to stuart parnaby's dad who is head of the academy.

Dave Parnaby

[Kelbo]

southgate didnt use the youth system to his advantage. he let a few leave.. cattermole, danny graham and continually shipped adam johnson out on loan.

clown of a manager.

credit has to go to stuart parnaby's dad who is head of the academy.

Steve Agnew deserves much of the credit too, an ex Rover who brought these lads through the Reserve team!

[imy9]

McLaren took over Boro when they finished 14th in the Prem.

In his 5 seasons he finished 12th, 11th, 11th, 7th & 14th.

He got to 2 FA Cup Semi's

He WON 1 League Cup

He got to the FINAL of the UEFA Cup.

His total net spend (once you take into account all the players who he signed and were then sold once he left) was £4 million a season.

He also brought through some excellent youth : Downing, James Morrison, Cattermole, Adam Johnson.

Kean took over Twente when they were FOURTH, took them to 2nd and then 1st, playing some fantastic football ( I choose my words carefully) according to a number of observers most notably Cryuff.

Not the worlds greatest manager by any stretch but someone who has over a number of years shown that he can develop youth, play attractive football, win titles/trophies- not a bad choice as Rovers manager IMO.

[chocky]

SA - Blackburn Rovers games 90, won 32, drew 24, lost 34, win % 35.56

SM - Middlesbrough games 250, won 97, drew 60, lost 93, win % 38.80

Sorry how many championships has SA won again? SA is regarded as a demi god round here, SM could well end up being Zues.

Good post..

[ada2020]

Sam's record with Bolton was far more impressive than McLaren's in charge of Boro. Funny how you don't mention that now isn't it!

I bet you give McLaren the credit for bringing through those young players but don't give Sam credit for bringing through the young players at Rovers, right?

In 2002-03 his net spend was + £27 million. In 2005-06 his net spend was well over + £10 million. That's money that Sam never had at Bolton or Rovers.

And Twente weren't the fourth of fifth best side in the Netherlands before he arrived. They were the second best side before he arrived as they'd finished 2nd the season before. Without him they're top of the table again this year.

The conditions under which he managed at Wolfsburg were the exact same conditions under which they'd finished 8th the season before, yet when he left they were one point from the relegation zone.

So basically, you've been making things up and deliberately excluding huge sections of Sam's career in order to prove some petty point against our last manager.

He did a good job in Holland and can be a decent enough manager, but overall he's not a patch on Sam Allardyce.

Brilliant statement! Are you Sam Allardyce in disguise?

Personally I wouldn't have either of them anywhere near rovers, you mention Allardyce didn't have the funds, but it's widely documented that he managed to spunk a healthy amount of cash up the wall paying Hiero, okocha and co.

[John]

you mention Allardyce didn't have the funds, but it's widely documented that he managed to spunk a healthy amount of cash up the wall paying Hiero, okocha and co.

The players you mention helped Bolton to have some very successful times, which will live long in the memory for their fans, and also they finished up very high up in the league - so how was that "spunking cash"?

[tony gale's mic]

Brilliant statement! Are you Sam Allardyce in disguise?

Personally I wouldn't have either of them anywhere near rovers, you mention Allardyce didn't have the funds, but it's widely documented that he managed to spunk a healthy amount of cash up the wall paying Hiero, okocha and co.

Let’s start with the most direct measure used by the Fink Tank’s Dr Henry Stott and Dr Ian Graham. The statisticians relate the size of club wage bills to the points gained by the team and then plot the numbers on a graph, giving a curve for the expected relationship. Managers whose clubs appear above the curve are winning more points than their owners should expect, given the wage bill, while those below the curve do the opposite.

And Allardyce? He is an “above the curve” manager and that was a consistent feature of his reign at Bolton. Each year the Fink Tank has been picking its manager of the season. Allardyce is the only person to come near the top every time we have done the calculation.

If you can understand that which, given your views on football you probably lack the intelligence to do, you'd see that it blows out of the water the idea that Sam was paying disproportionate wages to his stars.

[yeti-dog]

If you can understand that which, given your views on football you probably lack the intelligence to do, you'd see that it blows out of the water the idea that Sam was paying disproportionate wages to his stars.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz...god,you do get boring when your self-aggrandisement seeps out.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

19 mar 2011 Blackburn - Blackpool Serie 2 - 2

2 apr 2011 Arsenal - Blackburn Serie 0 - 0 TV2 PL1

9 apr 2011 Blackburn - Birmingham City Serie 1 - 1

16 apr 2011 Everton - Blackburn Serie 2 - 0

25 apr 2011 Blackburn - Manchester City Serie 0 - 1 TV2 PL1

30 apr 2011 Blackburn - Bolton Serie 1 - 0

7 mai 2011 West Ham - Blackburn Serie 1- 1

He considers draw as a positive result. And to an extent I agree with him, but not against the likes of Blackpool and Big club at home.

I think we have to look at all these in context.

Blackpool - bad refereeing decision and brilliant free kick meant that this was a point gained - which could easily of have been all three based on 2nd half

Arsenal - we were lucky enough to catch an Arsenal team in slow decline - still and excellent point

Birmingham - thugs who came for a draw and got it. I have never seen so much play acting since the last El Classico.

West Ham - first point there for absolutely ages. Could have easily been all three - as they were running out of ideas before they scored. Flip side of that - once equalising - WHU should really have won it through Keane.

Key thing for me - only the Everton match could be termed as a no-show by the players. Every other match - we have at least deserved the results we achieved - and with a little luck could have had a few more points. Though I must admit to being extremely nervous - we are probably the more steady of the teams at the bottom and with points and goal difference already in hand.

[tony gale's mic]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz...god,you do get boring when your self-aggrandisement seeps out.

Rather be boring than be too damn thick to engage in debate.

[yeti-dog]

Rather be boring than be too damn thick to engage in debate.

Debating with you can best be compared to discussing the meaning of life with Jordan-futile and ultimately pointless....

As an aside...I've never seen you give ground..ever. Your superiority complex seemingly doesn't allow it, which is what makes you so insufferable.

I think we have to look at all these in context.

Blackpool - bad refereeing decision and brilliant free kick meant that this was a point gained - which could easily of have been all three based on 2nd half

Arsenal - we were lucky enough to catch an Arsenal team in slow decline - still and excellent point

Birmingham - thugs who came for a draw and got it. I have never seen so much play acting since the last El Classico.

West Ham - first point there for absolutely ages. Could have easily been all three - as they were running out of ideas before they scored. Flip side of that - once equalising - WHU should really have won it through Keane.

Key thing for me - only the Everton match could be termed as a no-show by the players. Every other match - we have at least deserved the results we achieved - and with a little luck could have had a few more points. Though I must admit to being extremely nervous - we are probably the more steady of the teams at the bottom and with points and goal difference already in hand.

Tend to agree with you,and 2 losses out of 7 isn't too shabby-granted,a few more wins would have been nice too!!

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Rather be boring than be too damn thick to engage in debate.

Hardly surprising that a couple of statisticians would come up with stats that back up Sams approach - as it is based on statistics. To an extent I agree with him - I think United show that it is pointless passing it around like Arsenal if there is no end product - better to mix it up a little.

In truth - wouldn't be happy with Mclaren or Allardyce.

[tony gale's mic]

Debating with you can best be compared to discussing the meaning of life with Jordan-futile and ultimately pointless....

As an aside...I've never seen you give ground..ever. Your superiority complex seemingly doesn't allow it, which is what makes you so insufferable.

I've never seen you give ground either yeti.

The reason why I never usually give ground is because I can usually come up with reasonably objective and irrefutable evidence as to why I'm right. Like that post which you inexplicably attacked for no reason.

A superiority complex is when someone refers to themselves as being on a higher level to most other people. If I had this superiority complex you speak of, I'd put this obvious dichotomy in our respective abilities to construct an argument down to some sort of special talent on my part.

I don't think I possess a particularly special talent.

You're just a troglodyte.

[Mercer]

The likes of TGM & YD bring a bit of colour to the board. Don't necessarily agree with what they say (YD in particular) but adds a bit of interest!!!

[tony gale's mic]

Hardly surprising that a couple of statisticians would come up with stats that back up Sams approach - as it is based on statistics. To an extent I agree with him - I think United show that it is pointless passing it around like Arsenal if there is no end product - better to mix it up a little.

In truth - wouldn't be happy with Mclaren or Allardyce.

Bizzare. Did you even read the post?

Those statistics they quoted have absolutely no relevance to the style of play.

They simply show that the myth that he had some sort of astronimical wage bill propping up his success at Bolton was totally false.

[yeti-dog]

The likes of TGM & YD bring a bit of colour to the board. Don't necessarily agree with what they say (YD in particular) but adds a bit of interest!!!

Ahh..you love me really Mecerman!

Bizzare. Did you even read the post?

Those statistics they quoted have absolutely no relevance to the style of play.

They simply show that the myth that he had some sort of astronimical wage bill propping up his success at Bolton was totally false.

What's that quote about lies and statistics..

You can pontificate all you like,but it seems irrefutable to me that Sam's legacy was not bringing through youth but paying big bucks to freebies..sometimes it worked sometimes it didn't.

[tony gale's mic]

You can pontificate all you like,but it seems irrefutable to me that Sam's legacy was not bringing through youth but paying big bucks to freebies..sometimes it worked sometimes it didn't.

In the face of the facts which state that his wage bill was relatively very low for the positions he achieved at Bolton, you still think that high wages were the driving force behind his success?

And you say I never give ground?

:lol:

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Bizzare. Did you even read the post?

Those statistics they quoted have absolutely no relevance to the style of play.

They simply show that the myth that he had some sort of astronimical wage bill propping up his success at Bolton was totally false.

The ratio related to wage bill and number of points gained. Simple question - how has Sam gained all these points - has it been down to his percentage style of play or playing the Arsenal way ?

You need to be careful - you are really going to hurt yourself when you fall off that high horse of yours

[yeti-dog]

It'll be a long,long fall that's for sure!

[tony gale's mic]

The ratio related to wage bill and number of points gained. Simple question - how has Sam gained all these points - has it been down to his percentage style of play or playing the Arsenal way ?

You need to be careful - you are really going to hurt yourself when you fall off that high horse of yours

It's still irrelevant.

Wigan have a very low wage bill but are seen at least to play a style of football that's pretty easy on the eye. Same with Blackpool.

If they were as successful as Sam's Bolton side then I'm sure they'd be topping the similar tables Sam did at Bolton.

If Fink published stats on pass completion rate/% of passes which were over 20 yards (for example) in proportion to points won or something similar (I'm sure he probably has done) then that'd back up any statements you might make about Sam's style of play.

It's true he did have a style of play that was more direct in its approach than most. Paradoxically however he also built a very good midfield at Bolton with numerous creative players who could never have shone in the way they did if all the media hype about Sam's style was justified.

However that's not proven by that particular statistic.