[Archived] Steve Kean

[Blue n White Rover]

Correct me if I'm wrong but when a club sacks a manager (as opposed to them leaving), it is done so the new manager will be an improvement, no? Unless of course Venkys are totally tapped and plan to do this every season for a laugh. So if Kean's whole purpose was to improve us then the only way his appointment could have been justified is us finishing above 10th, something we have spectacularly failed to do.

Given the poor quality of most of the league we'd have finished 8th this season under Allardyce without breaking a sweat. Usually that is enough for European qualification via the Intertoto but Birmingham winning the League Cup and Stoke getting to the final of the FA Cup means it'll be 6th this season, so we'd have been unlucky.

That last line tells the same old story, you didn't like Allardyce's style so you're willing to twist his record into somehow being equal to clown Kean's. The biggest insult to our former manager and most bizarre appraisal of this season yet.

At the start of every season, our aim is to stay in this league. Under the Walkers, not only did we have to stay in this league, but had to finish in a decent position to keep us financially afloat. Agreed?

If we stay up this season, then our aim has been achieved and the decision to have Kean in charge after the sacking of Allardyce will have been justified. Key difference this time round is that we can afford to finish 17th without going bust. No way am I saying that is good enough for our club. However, after the change in ownership, change in management, I'll be more than happy to stay in this league, regardless of our position.

8th is never good enough for a European spot. Intertoto Cup has gone. This season only 5th position gets into Europe, not 6th. Keep up.

[yoda]

"It is not truth that matters, but victory" Adolf Hitler

you seem to quote him a lot!

[greco]

Thats what I was trying to get across greco, money doesn't matter, results don't matter, we just need to avoid relegation this time around and see what happens.

As for justification of the Kean role, the owners will view the Kean appointment as being a success, if they ever viewed us as being relegation candidates like the vast majority did on here.

So it stands to reason that avoiding relegation, which I think we will, obviously will justify the appointment of Mr Steve Kean.

Hope that’s clear.

finishing 10th the season before and occupying 9th this season before sams dismissal, and you are now trying to tell me/us, that venky´s will see it as justified.

Perhaps you should look at their statements and none have ever been about survival. They have all been about top half finishes, perhaps that should be a part of your considerations, before saying what mrs desai thinks.

[chris]

finishing 10th the season before and occupying 9th this season before sams dismissal, and you are now trying to tell me/us, that venky´s will see it as justified.

Perhaps you should look at their statements and none have ever been about survival. They have all been about top half finishes, perhaps that should be a part of your considerations, before saying what mrs desai thinks.

I can clearly remember one of the brothers saying after the Sam sacking that "this is a beautiful team and should be at least 7th"

Wonder if Kean told them that?

Ofcourse they quickly changed their mind

you seem to quote him a lot!

That was my first time, I normally quote Himler

[jim mk2]

It is not the way I view football, however, after the rollercoaster ride we have had this season, it will be easily justified. All I'm trying to say is that with Allardyce in charge we would have stayed in this league, and now with Kean in charge, we will probably achieve the same. So in turn, Venky's decision will be justified.

.

Nonsensical.

Venky's could justify their decision only if Kean had done better than last year's 10th place or we had won one of the cups.

There's an old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

Sums up perfectly why there was no justifciation for sacking Sam.

[blue_and_white]

At the start of every season, our aim is to stay in this league. Under the Walkers, not only did we have to stay in this league, but had to finish in a decent position to keep us financially afloat. Agreed?

If we stay up this season, then our aim has been achieved and the decision to have Kean in charge after the sacking of Allardyce will have been justified. Key difference this time round is that we can afford to finish 17th without going bust. No way am I saying that is good enough for our club. However, after the change in ownership, change in management, I'll be more than happy to stay in this league, regardless of our position.

8th is never good enough for a European spot. Intertoto Cup has gone. This season only 5th position gets into Europe, not 6th. Keep up.

Nope I don't agree at all. Under the Walkers our primary aim was to stay in the league and our secondary aim was to finish as high up as possible. But as their supporters continually claim as pretty much their only defence to their continually daft footballing decisions, Venkys have brought ambition and (apparently) significant money to the club. They sacked Allardyce precisely because our aim is no longer to stay in this league. Now our aim is to win the league, qualify for the champions league or finish in the top 8 depending on that date of the interview or which member of their family you listen to.

How could sacking Allardyce to replace him with an obviously worse manager ever be justified? I feel like I'm going insane here, the point of football isn't to get as close to relegation as possible while still avoiding it! I'm happy to finish 17th after the change in manager but I'm certainly not happy about the change in manager. I can only assume you think Kean will be much better next season and our position will significantly improve, I'll bet you anything you like that it won't.

Fair enough on the Europa League qualification, thanks to the Ince/Kean appointments its been quite a while since Rovers were troubled with the specifics.

[Blue n White Rover]

Nope I don't agree at all. Under the Walkers our primary aim was to stay in the league and our secondary aim was to finish as high up as possible. But as their supporters continually claim as pretty much their only defence to their continually daft footballing decisions, Venkys have brought ambition and (apparently) significant money to the club. They sacked Allardyce precisely because our aim is no longer to stay in this league. Now our aim is to win the league, qualify for the champions league or finish in the top 8 depending on that date of the interview or which member of their family you listen to.

How could sacking Allardyce to replace him with an obviously worse manager ever be justified? I feel like I'm going insane here, the point of football isn't to get as close to relegation as possible while still avoiding it! I'm happy to finish 17th after the change in manager but I'm certainly not happy about the change in manager. I can only assume you think Kean will be much better next season and our position will significantly improve, I'll bet you anything you like that it won't.

Fair enough on the Europa League qualification, thanks to the Ince/Kean appointments its been quite a while since Rovers were troubled with the specifics.

Nope. I'd be glad to see the back of Kean in the summer. Would want a quality manager in place, likes of Benitez maybe?

Allardyce = No cups. No Europe. PL Status secured

Kean = No cups. No Europe. PL Status secured (hopefully)

[jim mk2]

Allardyce = No cups. No Europe. PL Status secured. Cup semi-final, saved us from relegation first season, very satisfactory 10th place following season.

Kean = No cups. No Europe. PL Status secured (hopefully). No cups, no Europe, possibly no Premier League, no idea, no hope.

[LeChuck]

It is not the way I view football, however, after the rollercoaster ride we have had this season, it will be easily justified. All I'm trying to say is that with Allardyce in charge we would have stayed in this league, and now with Kean in charge, we will probably achieve the same. So in turn, Venky's decision will be justified.

If you disagree, then I'd like to know your views as to why. Not being an arse or anything, I'm genuinely interested on other people's view, and enjoy the debate.

I completely disagree because I don't think managerial success is just based on qualifying for Europe or escaping relegation. There is a hell of a lot in between which, for some reason, you are counting as completely meaningless.

[Kelbo]

Not rattled me at all. I just agreed with GAV when he said that Kean's appointment will be justified providing we stay up. Your figures just show that Kean hasn't been the best replacement. Not going to disagree with you, what I am trying to say is that if Allardyce was in charge, we wouldn't have got into Europe, nor would we have got relegated. If Kean achieves the same, then it will be justified.

Nobody is saying we will have been successful. Just saying his appointment will be justified as it won't have made a huge difference to our season.If you wish, we can pretend that Allardyce would have got us into Europe, scoring lots of great goals from long balls and set pieces in the process.

It will make a huge difference into the quality of player we will be able to attract to the club, the better players want to be challenging for honours, not fighting relegation, they would look critically at a eighth or tenth placed side and say, yes, a bit of investment could push them into a European spot, I'll have a go at that, now if we finish one point above a relegation place, the thoughts would be far more negative and 'I dont really fancy a relegation scrap' so we then are left with untried players ie Rochina and Formica etc and live in hope.

It really does make a difference, a huge difference, as does the managers ability to attract the right players and Kean is not the manager to do that either.

Forgot to mention the little matter of £6,000,000 or so !!

[John]

Can't rememember fully, wasn't Kean quite confident we could finish 10th, or even higher, this season under him (comments when he first took over).

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

It will make a huge difference into the quality of player we will be able to attract to the club, the better players want to be challenging for honours, not fighting relegation, they would look critically at a eighth or tenth placed side and say, yes, a bit of investment could push them into a European spot, I'll have a go at that, now if we finish one point above a relegation place, the thoughts would be far more negative and 'I dont really fancy a relegation scrap' so we then are left with untried players ie Rochina and Formica etc and live in hope.

It really does make a difference, a huge difference, as does the managers ability to attract the right players and Kean is not the manager to do that either.

Forgot to mention the little matter of £6,000,000 or so !!

Totally agree.

The only way they could have seen it as a success would have been if they had traded a couple of places in the league (i.e. 12th rather than 10th) in return for more attractive football. Instead we were left with slightly more attractive football - and fight to the death against relegation and a huge hole in our finances due to a far lower league position.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Totally agree.

The only way they could have seen it as a success would have been if they had traded a couple of places in the league (i.e. 12th rather than 10th) in return for more attractive football. Instead we were left with slightly more attractive football - and fight to the death against relegation and a huge hole in our finances due to a far lower league position.

Exactly. Now what is so hard to understand about that? What business views a 6 million squid deficit as 'successful' or 'justified'. Only in football is 6 million talked about like it is meaningless.

Although I could argue it has not been anymore attractive, less potent in front of goal and more open at the back.

[thenodrog]

Thats what I was trying to get across greco, money doesn't matter, results don't matter, we just need to avoid relegation this time around and see what happens.

As for justification of the Kean role, the owners will view the Kean appointment as being a success, if they ever viewed us as being relegation candidates like the vast majority did on here.

So it stands to reason that avoiding relegation, which I think we will, obviously will justify the appointment of Mr Steve Kean.

Hope that’s clear.

A success!!! No doubt they were stuffed full of bullshit by their advisors but didn't the Venkey mob have us down for a top 5 finish? How does a place in the BOTTOM 5 sit with that? With his record in charge if Kean ever dreams that he is a better manager than Allardyce he'd better wake up and apologise.

I'll tell you what is clear. Whether we stay up or go down if Kean is appointed than it's very doubtful whether I will renew my ST. I certainly can't see it at the moment given what has gone on since Nov. I suppose I'll go to some games but that is very much an open option. Apart from the ground itself there really is nowt down their that belongs to us anymore imo. It's gone. I'm far from being alone in this sentiment either.

[broadsword]

Jesus, they'll look upon the Kean appointment as a success?!

That's like giving a super-model wife the heave-ho, pulling some tramp and saying it's better than nothing.

There's no positive spin to be put on things that could in any way look credible.

[Gav]

There's no positive spin to be put on things that could in any way look credible.

Try ‘premiership survival plucked from the jaws of relegation’

Its coming I can tell thee

[broadsword]

But we weren't even in the water on Dec 12th, let alone anywhere near Jaws!

[Kelbo]

Try ‘premiership survival plucked from the jaws of relegation’

Its coming I can tell thee

Gav, are you one of the Chuckle (Rao) Brothers? As John McEnroe used to say, based on your supporting posts of our excuse of a manager, 'You cannot be serious'

[broadsword]

You can't make a rank-bad decision, only just get away with it, and then claim it as some sort of glorious master-stroke.

It's like accidentally pulling the pin out of a grenade, and only just throwing it away in time.

[Billy Castell]

I have re-iterated a couple of e-mail addresses on the Message to Venky's thread if you want to voice your concerns. I know it'll almost inevitably be a waste of time, but if lots of us send e-mails, something may just happen. I don't know of any other way other than flying to Pune and bursting into the boardroom as an angry mob.

[Jimmy612]

Nope. I'd be glad to see the back of Kean in the summer. Would want a quality manager in place, likes of Benitez maybe?

Tough luck, we're stuck with kean

[Gav]

Gav, are you one of the Chuckle (Rao) Brothers? As John McEnroe used to say, based on your supporting posts of our excuse of a manager, 'You cannot be serious'

You're on ignore

This devil’s advocate stuff isn't much fun Kelbo

You can't make a rank-bad decision, only just get away with it, and then claim it as some sort of glorious master-stroke.

It's like accidentally pulling the pin out of a grenade, and only just throwing it away in time.

Like I just said, give it time Bryan, give it time........

[MeanGreenMachine]

That's like giving a super-model wife the heave-ho, pulling some tramp and saying it's better than nothing.

Are you comparing this man...

to a supermodel? More jabba the hut then kate moss

[cruz]

But we weren't even in the water on Dec 12th, let alone anywhere near Jaws!

Just a mere 2 points further from the drop zone....albeit with half a season left

[tony gale's mic]

Just a mere 2 points further from the drop zone....albeit with half a season left

We were also 3 points off 7th, but you don't mention that do you?

Most accurately, we'd be hovering around 10th right now if Sam's good forms had been allowed to carry on.