[Archived] Steve Kean

[imy9]

We don't know that as he might have been a big headed muppet like Dyer and Kieron Richardson walking telling everybody how wonderful they are and how much money they are getting but basically producing zero on the pitch constantly.

So that changed in two weeks between Sam getting fired and Kean starting him?? Facts are there on black and White, however the above is in an interesting yarn.

[cruz]

1/ Was it because all of a sudden Kean learnt from his mistakes - I do not believe that.

Number one seems the most likely. Well I hope it was for next seasons sake.

Why would Kean not learn from his mistakes? Surely to be even a coach in the Premierleague you have to be pretty adaptible and self analysing

[tony gale's mic]

How many games did he start under Sam this season?

And don't give me that crap that he wasn't ready for the first-team, because that was proven wrong in the space of months.

If anyone's ever spoken crap about this, it's you claiming Hoilett wasn't "given a chance" under Sam.

He wasn't ready for the first team last season. If he was ready for the first team, then he would've showed something in the 24 appearances he made in the league alone.

The difference here between the first half of this season and last season was that last season Diouf was absolutely dire for most of it. This season in the first half of the season he was one of our best players, and the team were doing reasonably well. Although Hoilett recently has played better than Diouf was back then, at the time you don't blame Sam for not being in a hurry to replace one of our better players with someone who hadnt impressed all that much.

Then Diouf and Kean had their falling out, and Hoilett got his chance.

Would Hoilett have got an extended run and done well under Sam? Undoubtedly - Sam moved heaven and earth to try and get him to sign his last contract, gave him a lot of appearances last season, and the emergence of Olsson as a winger under him shows that Hoilett would likely have flourished under him too.

Would Hoilett have emerged quite as quick under Sam as he did under Kean? Probably not to be fair - but then we wouldnt have been relying on his performances to keep us in the league as they did in the end. But with that sort of talent, whether it emerged in January or whether it emerged after a full pre season in August wouldnt have made that much of a difference.

[BangkokRover]

That is a very valid point Diouf was excellent this season before he left.

Don't like the guy but he was playing very very well.

[ABBEY]

jim its been a week and half now and you still have not answered the question,.why you think its better to drink and drive than be a ###### footy manager? ignore it all you like but its still waiting to be answered.

[Kelbo]

Whenever I watched Hoilett, he had the pace to burn but his decision-making was erratic at best. I always maintained if he was given a run in the side, and the confidence to improve his game, he could become something. The previous manager chose to overlook that.

There is one thing which is common in young players, 'inconsistency' they set the levels of their performance and then tend to drop their performance for a while and then back again, Jones was different, he hasnt dropped the bar yet.

Decision making is down to experience and the more experience you gain, the less bad decisions you make, that is a learning curve and one which you as a player have to overcome, be disciplined and with the right attitude you will come through the ranks, if not this season, maybe the next, we have another exciting group of youngsters coming through and its credit to Phil Cannon and all the team at Brockhall for the development of these lads, watch out for a right/left full back called Adam Henley!!

[sparkspakespoke]

If anyone's ever spoken crap about this, it's you claiming Hoilett wasn't "given a chance" under Sam.

He wasn't ready for the first team last season. If he was ready for the first team, then he would've showed something in the 24 appearances he made in the league alone.

The difference here between the first half of this season and last season was that last season Diouf was absolutely dire for most of it. This season in the first half of the season he was one of our best players, and the team were doing reasonably well. Although Hoilett recently has played better than Diouf was back then, at the time you don't blame Sam for not being in a hurry to replace one of our better players with someone who hadnt impressed all that much.

Then Diouf and Kean had their falling out, and Hoilett got his chance.

Would Hoilett have got an extended run and done well under Sam? Undoubtedly - Sam moved heaven and earth to try and get him to sign his last contract, gave him a lot of appearances last season, and the emergence of Olsson as a winger under him shows that Hoilett would likely have flourished under him too.

Would Hoilett have emerged quite as quick under Sam as he did under Kean? Probably not to be fair - but then we wouldnt have been relying on his performances to keep us in the league as they did in the end. But with that sort of talent, whether it emerged in January or whether it emerged after a full pre season in August wouldnt have made that much of a difference.

Huge differencwe, Hoilett was by his own admission unhappy with not starting games before Keen came in and would likely have pushed to leave in the, especially given he was hesitant to sign the extention in the first place.

He is now saying he is very happy at the club, would like to sign on again and feels he's flourished under Keen, this gives us a chance to keep the best attacking talent emerging at the club for some time here for a few years.

Keen has given him starts, its a crucial difference to Sam giving him minutes at the end of games. Its given him the confidence to go out and express him self and know he's going to get a run. This is a player who had started regually in Germany prior to last season so Sam didnt need to wrap him in cotton wool.

[Guest roverite1991]

And debuts to Phil Jones, Ollsen, Josh Morris, Jason Lowe, Grant Hanley and a young winger called Haworth, thats 7 debuts to youngsters in one season, quite a feat but they came through the ranks and were developed by the club!!

Olsson (for me) was an Ince success in a way. Ince was the first manager to play him on the Left wing (against Everton in the early stages of the League Cup) and , surprise surprise, he scored! BUT I agree it was Sam who began playing him regularly on the Left Wing (wasn;t his debut under Sparky?)

[Amo]

If anyone's ever spoken crap about this, it's you claiming Hoilett wasn't "given a chance" under Sam.

Why do you insist on blindly defending Big Sam, even when it's obvious he dropped the ball here? You're being a total hypocrite.

He wasn't ready for the first team last season. If he was ready for the first team, then he would've showed something in the 24 appearances he made in the league alone.

He showed enough to suggest he had more about his game than our other wingers. I'm sorry, maybe I'm just forgetting the midfield/striker options on offer for the past 18 months.

The difference here between the first half of this season and last season was that last season Diouf was absolutely dire for most of it. This season in the first half of the season he was one of our best players, and the team were doing reasonably well. Although Hoilett recently has played better than Diouf was back then, at the time you don't blame Sam for not being in a hurry to replace one of our better players with someone who hadnt impressed all that much.

Well, when you consider how poor Diouf was last season, it's even more shocking that Hoilett didn't play more.

Then Diouf and Kean had their falling out, and Hoilett got his chance.

Ah, another misguided attempt to undermine the manager. You're now implying that Hoilett's success under Kean was incidental.

Would Hoilett have got an extended run and done well under Sam? Undoubtedly - Sam moved heaven and earth to try and get him to sign his last contract, gave him a lot of appearances last season, and the emergence of Olsson as a winger under him shows that Hoilett would likely have flourished under him too.

Oh pish. Hoilett was going nowhere under Sam. He was seen as a luxury that we couldn't afford to play in our rigid, percentage tactics. Sam wasn't willing to give him a serious run in the side, even when it was painfully obvious that our midfield lacked pace and urgency.

[Kelbo]

Huge differencwe, Hoilett was by his own admission unhappy with not starting games before Keen came in and would likely have pushed to leave in the, especially given he was hesitant to sign the extention in the first place.

He is now saying he is very happy at the club, would like to sign on again and feels he's flourished under Keen, this gives us a chance to keep the best attacking talent emerging at the club for some time here for a few years.

Keen has given him starts, its a crucial difference to Sam giving him minutes at the end of games. Its given him the confidence to go out and express him self and know he's going to get a run. This is a player who had started regually in Germany prior to last season so Sam didnt need to wrap him in cotton wool.

I do agree but remember, at a German second division club, Gallacher is starting and playing regularly at Leicester and Ericksson says he's the best crosser of the ball he's seen since Beckham!! Earnshaw is a prolific scorer in the Championship but couldnt do it in the Prem, we have lots of young lads doing well on loan, Jason Lowe at Oldham, Gavin Gunning at Motherwell, Josh Morris at ICT etc its a little easier lower in the leagues.

[cn174]

Keen has given him starts, its a crucial difference to Sam giving him minutes at the end of games. Its given him the confidence to go out and express him self and know he's going to get a run. This is a player who had started regually in Germany prior to last season so Sam didnt need to wrap him in cotton wool.

Not that regularly. 12 games in a season for Paderborn and 21 games in a season for St. Pauli, both in Bundesliga 2. Not the same as playing regularly in the Premiership really.

[Fife Rover]

Dead against from day one, still dead against. Proven right as well Bucky?

You of the opinion that Keans done well?

Look, why keep hold of a manager who nearly took us down? Why not go out and bring in someone better, someone more experienced? .....After all, the people who wanted Allardyce sacked in the summer obviously thought there was no problem finding someone better.

DEN: I know that you were replying to Bucky, but if I might interject?...........nobody is claiming that Kean has done well per se, but there is no doubt at all if you are being fair minded that he most definitely has improved with games. Also there is no doubt at all that the players are right behind him and seem to have the right amount of respect for him.

He was already a well respected coach when he took over, and since then has improved as a manager also. He still has a way to go, but IMO he is getting there and if given more time he will continue to learn and improve. He also did OK (not brilliant but OK) in the Jan buys and loans. Who knows with Venky's money behind him he may be able to improve the playing staff in the key areas this summer? Why not just keep an open mind and give the guy a fair chance? That is what I intend to do anyway.

[sparkspakespoke]

I do agree but remember, at a German second division club, Gallacher is starting and playing regularly at Leicester and Ericksson says he's the best crosser of the ball he's seen since Beckham!! Earnshaw is a prolific scorer in the Championship but couldnt do it in the Prem, we have lots of young lads doing well on loan, Jason Lowe at Oldham, Gavin Gunning at Motherwell, Josh Morris at ICT etc its a little easier lower in the leagues.

Yeah of course the standard is far higher in the premiership. St Pauli are a decent team though and I think he played twenty odd games for them. Some players need to be eased in but I think he's one that needs to play and needs the confidence of knowing the manager is going to give him a good run in the team.

Gallacher is a similar one, great technique but simply needs games, I think he should have taken the drop down years ago and signed full time for a Championship team, regular football and a settled environment are excatly what he needs.

[yeti-dog]

DEN: I know that you were replying to Bucky, but if I might interject?...........nobody is claiming that Kean has done well per se, but there is no doubt at all if you are being fair minded that he most definitely has improved with games. Also there is no doubt at all that the players are right behind him and seem to have the right amount of respect for him.

He was already a well respected coach when he took over, and since then has improved as a manager also. He still has a way to go, but IMO he is getting there and if given more time he will continue to learn and improve. He also did OK (not brilliant but OK) in the Jan buys and loans. Who knows with Venky's money behind him he may be able to improve the playing staff in the key areas this summer? Why not just keep an open mind and give the guy a fair chance? That is what I intend to do anyway.

That,my friend,is a very reasonable well-argued post.

Cue TGM..telling us how great Sam is,how crap Kean is...and on and on we go..

[BuckyRover]

DEN: I know that you were replying to Bucky, but if I might interject?...........nobody is claiming that Kean has done well per se, but there is no doubt at all if you are being fair minded that he most definitely has improved with games. Also there is no doubt at all that the players are right behind him and seem to have the right amount of respect for him.

He was already a well respected coach when he took over, and since then has improved as a manager also. He still has a way to go, but IMO he is getting there and if given more time he will continue to learn and improve. He also did OK (not brilliant but OK) in the Jan buys and loans. Who knows with Venky's money behind him he may be able to improve the playing staff in the key areas this summer? Why not just keep an open mind and give the guy a fair chance? That is what I intend to do anyway.

Thanks for interjecting.

I'm seen as being a Kean fan but I'm not. I want us to do well in an exciting way.

I was desperate during out winless streak but there was never a point where I snapped and said get rid. There was never a Wigan moment a la Ince. The players looked like they were giving their all but it just wasn't coming together. When the players give up on the manager is when I give up. They know what it's like to work with him day to day. But then things did come together and I don't know much but I do know its much harder to do well when things aren't going well for you than when things are rosy. I respect Kean for that. I'm not his cheerleader but don't like people going out of their way to disrespect him.

I was a critic of Sam but I wouldn't have sacked him when they did. But his contract was running out and I assume things came to a head and the rest is history.

[DE.]

Thanks for interjecting.

I'm seen as being a Kean fan but I'm not. I want us to do well in an exciting way.

I was desperate during out winless streak but there was never a point where I snapped and said get rid. There was never a Wigan moment a la Ince.

I genuinely think the Blackpool game could have brought on a 'Wigan moment' in the next match had we not come out in the second half and pegged it back to 2-2. It's impossible to convey how important, in hindsight, that comeback was.

[BuckyRover]

I genuinely think the Blackpool game could have brought on a 'Wigan moment' in the next match had we not come out in the second half and pegged it back to 2-2. It's impossible to convey how important, in hindsight, that comeback was.

How easy would it have been to give up at half time in that match (and even the following matches as a draw with Blackpool isn't good)?

Why did they turn up next week and still want to play for Kean after such a torrid run?

They didn't want him to be sacked. They never stopped trying.

[DE.]

I do wonder how big a blow losing to Blackpool at home would have been for morale.

But I agree, the players did clearly want to play for him (except the Everton game where we were a shambles) and that ultimately got us out of trouble. I think Kean would make a good assistant, actually. I just don't rate him as the main man.

[Kelbo]

How easy would it have been to give up at half time in that match (and even the following matches as a draw with Blackpool isn't good)?

Why did they turn up next week and still want to play for Kean after such a torrid run?

They didn't want him to be sacked. They never stopped trying.

I am sorry Bucky, you do not understand football, players who reach the highest level, reach that level because skill and ability count for nothing without Mentality and Attitude, We have all seen players, even at grass roots level with an abundance of ability but without the correct attitude and mentality they dont get there.

I cant play a game of Ludo with the kids and consider losing, the boards kicked in the air if I am looking at defeat, likewise, when I played football, in the dressing room after a defeat, you darent speak to me, defeat wasnt an option, Kean or no Kean, look at Salgados mentality, been there, done it al, yet whether for Sam or Kean the mentality and attitude was there for all to see, we all thought we had bought a crop at first, his mindset and mentality made him crack the premiership and thats why he had a successful career!

[Roversider]

There's a lot of discussion about Hoillet and Allardyce and Kean.

Firstly, credit where credit is due, Sam Allardyce bent over backwards to ensure Junior signed a proper contract at Rovers. He also gave him a break in the first team.

On the other side Junior has only really blossomed under Steve Kean. Part of that may well be down to experience but I think you also have to credit Kean for changing where he has played and the system adopted with two strikers. Also I genuinely believe that Junior is happier now, the noises of signing an extended contract endorse that. More credit to Kean or Venky's cash, still positive for the management.

[tashor]

DEN: I know that you were replying to Bucky, but if I might interject?...........nobody is claiming that Kean has done well per se, but there is no doubt at all if you are being fair minded that he most definitely has improved with games. Also there is no doubt at all that the players are right behind him and seem to have the right amount of respect for him.

He was already a well respected coach when he took over, and since then has improved as a manager also. He still has a way to go, but IMO he is getting there and if given more time he will continue to learn and improve. He also did OK (not brilliant but OK) in the Jan buys and loans. Who knows with Venky's money behind him he may be able to improve the playing staff in the key areas this summer? Why not just keep an open mind and give the guy a fair chance? That is what I intend to do anyway.

To some of us age bestows wisdom - others sink into the security blanket of narrow-minded certainty................

[BuckyRover]

I am sorry Bucky, you do not understand football, players who reach the highest level, reach that level because skill and ability count for nothing without Mentality and Attitude, We have all seen players, even at grass roots level with an abundance of ability but without the correct attitude and mentality they dont get there.

I cant play a game of Ludo with the kids and consider losing, the boards kicked in the air if I am looking at defeat, likewise, when I played football, in the dressing room after a defeat, you darent speak to me, defeat wasnt an option, Kean or no Kean, look at Salgados mentality, been there, done it al, yet whether for Sam or Kean the mentality and attitude was there for all to see, we all thought we had bought a crop at first, his mindset and mentality made him crack the premiership and thats why he had a successful career!

Wigan 3 - 0 Blackburn.

Did they forget their winning mentality a few months after Hughes left?

Poppycock.

[Kelbo]

Wigan 3 - 0 Blackburn.

Did they forget their winning mentality a few months after Hughes left?

Poppycock.

The fact you posted that I will repeat, You do not understand football

You simply cannot choose one game!!

Gemany 1 England 5 you tell me the Germans dont have a winning mentality?

[rovers_rob]

The fact you posted that I will repeat, You do not understand football

You simply cannot choose one game!!

Gemany 1 England 5 you tell me the Germans dont have a winning mentality?

Well I don't understand football either because I agree with the comparison to the Wigan game that if Kean had lost the dressing room or they weren't behind him the second half performance against Blackpool would have been a disaster.

I saw the Wigan game and the players were shot to bits, they never looked liked they were going to get anything from that game and in my opinion it was because Ince had lost the dressing room.

They looked like lost souls on the pitch. Players like Samba, Nelsen, Santa Cruz, Warnock and Tugay.

If what you are saying is true then the manager is irrelevant.

I think the whole team deserve credit for the last few performances...and that includes the manager.

[Kelbo]

Well I don't understand football either because I agree with the comparison to the Wigan game that if Kean had lost the dressing room or they weren't behind him the second half performance against Blackpool would have been a disaster.

I saw the Wigan game and the players were shot to bits, they never looked liked they were going to get anything from that game and in my opinion it was because Ince had lost the dressing room.

They looked like lost souls on the pitch. Players like Samba, Nelsen, Santa Cruz, Warnock and Tugay.

If what you are saying is true then the manager is irrelevant.

I think the whole team deserve credit for the last few performances...and that includes the manager.

Yes I agree, but dont put it down to the manager, remember his record for 21 games was quite abysmal,

a manager sets his team up for games and has to have the ability to change things if things are not quite right, over the past 21 games, this has not been effectively done and barring bits of luck here and there, things could have been worse.

I will say this, there has been a distinct improvement with the whole team recently and if its down wholley to Kean, then well done Kean, but my information, and it is sound information, is that one or two players should be taking much credit for the turn round in fortunes.