[Archived] Steve Kean

[sparkspakespoke]

I am sorry Bucky, you do not understand football, players who reach the highest level, reach that level because skill and ability count for nothing without Mentality and Attitude, We have all seen players, even at grass roots level with an abundance of ability but without the correct attitude and mentality they dont get there.

I cant play a game of Ludo with the kids and consider losing, the boards kicked in the air if I am looking at defeat, likewise, when I played football, in the dressing room after a defeat, you darent speak to me, defeat wasnt an option, Kean or no Kean, look at Salgados mentality, been there, done it al, yet whether for Sam or Kean the mentality and attitude was there for all to see, we all thought we had bought a crop at first, his mindset and mentality made him crack the premiership and thats why he had a successful career!

That cracked me up. I've got this vision of you like the guy from the east show sketch a few years ago making his kids bowl under arm to him because its easier for them while he rsmacks it for six repeatedly!

You're right of course that determination and drive is what separatesthe nearly rans from those who make it.

At two nil their heads could have gone down though. Your example of our 5-1 win shows this. They have the winning mentality drummed into them but their heads dropped that night. It could have happened to up against pool but it didn't and that map crucial.

[Kelbo]

That cracked me up. I've got this vision of you like the guy from the east show sketch a few years ago making his kids bowl under arm to him because its easier for them while he rsmacks it for six repeatedly!

You're right of course that determination and drive is what separatesthe nearly rans from those who make it.

At two nil their heads could have gone down though. Your example of our 5-1 win shows this. They have the winning mentality drummed into them but their heads dropped that night. It could have happened to up against pool but it didn't and that map crucial.

Exactly right, but I played Lancashire League Cricket and faced Holding so didnt need under arm lol

Seriously though you have grasped it, Kean has without doubt improved but has he got it in him to attract the right players, set a team up for 38 games and change things effectively when needed, I dont really want him looking after a large transfer kitty and his vision of Santa Cruz as a permanent signing after his performances this season, worries me somewhat, is he too good a cop|?

You need a good cop/bad cop at a football club and I think he is trying to please too many players rather than getting on with the job, such as Roberts says he likes Kean, Roberts starts, Kalinic had a spat so he doesnt, he should be beyond that, be a bad cop, be a manager, be strong and what he says goes, I dont feel that is happening at Rovers.

[RovertheHill]

Yes I agree, but dont put it down to the manager, remember his record for 21 games was quite abysmal,

a manager sets his team up for games and has to have the ability to change things if things are not quite right, over the past 21 games, this has not been effectively done and barring bits of luck here and there, things could have been worse.

I will say this, there has been a distinct improvement with the whole team recently and if its down wholley to Kean, then well done Kean, but my information, and it is sound information, is that one or two players should be taking much credit for the turn round in fortunes.

You really don't like Kean do you? In an earlier post you intimated that there must be something more to Kean being given a longer chance than most. I've lost count of how many times I've read about "sound" information or "inside" information - most of it negative - and most of it hasn't actually happened or been true.

Before Kean when we had a good result it was down to Sam. Good result now and it's down to the players. I don't like Kean myself but I like this type of hypocrisy even less.

[jim mk2]

Why do you insist on blindly defending Big Sam, even when it's obvious he dropped the ball here? You're being a total hypocrite.

He showed enough to suggest he had more about his game than our other wingers. I'm sorry, maybe I'm just forgetting the midfield/striker options on offer for the past 18 months.

Well, when you consider how poor Diouf was last season, it's even more shocking that Hoilett didn't play more.

Ah, another misguided attempt to undermine the manager. You're now implying that Hoilett's success under Kean was incidental.

Oh pish. Hoilett was going nowhere under Sam. He was seen as a luxury that we couldn't afford to play in our rigid, percentage tactics. Sam wasn't willing to give him a serious run in the side, even when it was painfully obvious that our midfield lacked pace and urgency.

Young players such as Hoilett take time to develop and last season he wasn't ready either physically or mentally to be a regular in the team.

Do you understand anything about football ?

[Kelbo]

You really don't like Kean do you? In an earlier post you intimated that there must be something more to Kean being given a longer chance than most. I've lost count of how many times I've read about "sound" information or "inside" information - most of it negative - and most of it hasn't actually happened or been true.

Before Kean when we had a good result it was down to Sam. Good result now and it's down to the players. I don't like Kean myself but I like this type of hypocrisy even less.

Please show me a post where I have put a result down to Sam, you cant because I havent, as for things not been true, it is true,

most definately true, I just wish I could post what happened at half time at the Blackpool game, but i CANT.

[Amo]

Young players such as Hoilett take time to develop and last season he wasn't ready either physically or mentally to be a regular in the team.

How about this season? Wasn't getting a look in until Sam left.

Do you understand anything about football ?

Why, do you need some help?

[sparkspakespoke]

Exactly right, but I played Lancashire League Cricket and faced Holding so didnt need under arm lol

Seriously though you have grasped it, Kean has without doubt improved but has he got it in him to attract the right players, set a team up for 38 games and change things effectively when needed, I dont really want him looking after a large transfer kitty and his vision of Santa Cruz as a permanent signing after his performances this season, worries me somewhat, is he too good a cop|?

You need a good cop/bad cop at a football club and I think he is trying to please too many players rather than getting on with the job, such as Roberts says he likes Kean, Roberts starts, Kalinic had a spat so he doesnt, he should be beyond that, be a bad cop, be a manager, be strong and what he says goes, I dont feel that is happening at Rovers.

Well I guess we're going to find out by the look of things! You're right, he doesn have the natural authority of sir alex or mourinho, even wenger has a quiet aura of determination about him.

What you've heard about the players taking over in the dressing room worries me most. I. Knew west ham we're down when I heard parker gave the team talk. It can work once or twice to inspire the lads but long term the manager has to be able to do it.

I know houghton got some of the seniors at newcastle to act as his dressing room controlers of a kind. But decent as he did he never struck me as a proper boss.

I guess the question is, if you can disclose it, did the lads take over in our dressing room with or without keen's consent? If they are ignoring him then its a big big problem.

[jim mk2]

t? If they are ignoring him then its a big big problem.

Why do you think the players started those pre-match huddles on the pitch in the last few matches of the season ? It's obvious the players are ignoring Kean and it's right they should take the plaudits for Rovers escaping relegation. Players on their own can only do so much however - in the end lame-duck managers have to be replaced.

[Majiball]

You really don't like Kean do you? In an earlier post you intimated that there must be something more to Kean being given a longer chance than most. I've lost count of how many times I've read about "sound" information or "inside" information - most of it negative - and most of it hasn't actually happened or been true.

Before Kean when we had a good result it was down to Sam. Good result now and it's down to the players. I don't like Kean myself but I like this type of hypocrisy even less.

Critiquing one mans ability to do a job does not equate to someone liking or disliking another.

At the end of the day guys if players aren't happy with Kean, they'll look to move on or look to speak to someone above him (yet another issue with them not being here more often). The truth will out in the end, one way or the other it always just ask Giggs.

[PAFELL]

jim its been a week and half now and you still have not answered the question,.why you think its better to drink and drive than be a ###### footy manager? ignore it all you like but its still waiting to be answered.

Maybe because the answer is so simple it does not need an answer. but if you really need one. A footy manager is a decent job career. But a drunk driver is a self centred, ignorant, scum of the earth.

The only acception I will allow - within reason - is somebody who has not calculated properly what they have drunk the night before and the alcohol in the body following morning. Sometimes it is miss calculation - whereas often it is sheer ignorance or even blatant behaviour.

I have known people who have drunk a bottle of wine the night before, finished the bottle, say 10pm and then drive at between 6 to 7 am to go to work. Which is only 8 to 9 hours after the last drink and think they are under the limit to drive. The majority of the time - depending on the strength of the wine, they are not. I once worked for a bus company. One of my duties was to witness alcohol testing in the drivers at 5am in the morning, as they came on duty. The first day it was done - 80% were not fit to drive - because of what they had drunk the night before.

I do not know what or how much Kean had to drink - to me it makes no difference. But if you have a car or van etc in the car park which is how you are going to get home etc. You make a choice. Drink OR drive. If going to drink, then do not drive. You decide before you drink.

I have no time for drunk drivers. If caught, a minimum sentence would be one year in jail, driving ban.

Some may say that is being harsh. But when you have to try and comfort your best mate, who has just lost his 3 daughters - aged 3, 5 and 7, mowed down by a drunk driver - I have no mercy at all for the driver.

Abbey, Jim cannot answer you because there is no decent answer to give.

[DE.]

A few things struck me as bizarre on MOTD in regards to our celebrations... after the first goal it's split into two, Salgado runs off one way and Roberts another... similarly for Junior's last goal Roberts runs off on his own.

And in the shots where Phil Jones (I think) is celebrating with the coaches... he doesn't seem to be celebrating with Kean. Kean always seems to be celebrating alone, the other coaching staff don't approach him in any of the shots and nor do you see any of the players specifically running over to him. It could have just been the way the BBC shots were edited, I suppose. It just made our celebrations looks a bit weird.

Edit: In fact, on the third goal they show a replay of Phil Jones running straight past Kean and hugging the other coaches. I don't think Roberts celebrates with any of the other players for any of the goals?

[super_arran]

Why do you think the players started those pre-match huddles on the pitch in the last few matches of the season ? It's obvious the players are ignoring Kean and it's right they should take the plaudits for Rovers escaping relegation. Players on their own can only do so much however - in the end lame-duck managers have to be replaced.

So a 2min huddle changed the tactics of the game and everything?

Get a grip.

According to Roberts, the huddles consisted of players yelling a lot and generally hyping each other up. But you believe what you want....

Also, Kelbo, ever think that the reason Roberts is nice about Kean is because he's starting more? Not, he's nice to Kean SO he starts more?

[Kelbo]

Maybe because the answer is so simple it does not need an answer. but if you really need one. A footy manager is a decent job career. But a drunk driver is a self centred, ignorant, scum of the earth.

The only acception I will allow - within reason - is somebody who has not calculated properly what they have drunk the night before and the alcohol in the body following morning. Sometimes it is miss calculation - whereas often it is sheer ignorance or even blatant behaviour.

I have known people who have drunk a bottle of wine the night before, finished the bottle, say 10pm and then drive at between 6 to 7 am to go to work. Which is only 8 to 9 hours after the last drink and think they are under the limit to drive. The majority of the time - depending on the strength of the wine, they are not. I once worked for a bus company. One of my duties was witness alcohol limits in the drivers at 5am in the morning. The first day it was done - 80% were not fit to drive - because of what they had drunk the night before.

I do not know what or how much Kean had to drink - to me it makes no difference. But if you have a car or van etc in the car park which is how you are going to get home etc. You make a choice. Drink OR drive. If going to drink, then do not drive. You decide before you drink.

I have no time for drunk drivers. If caught, a minimum sentence would be one year in jail, driving ban.

That is my biggest gripe with the drink driving law, a law where you are not sure if you are breaking it or not is a bad law, I think a car should have an in built breathaliser, get in the car and blow and the car wont start if over the limit, overide it and you deserve a long stretch. sometimes, as you say the morning after, no one is sure where you limit falls, drink driving laws were not designed for that!

So a 2min huddle changed the tactics of the game and everything?

Get a grip.

According to Roberts, the huddles consisted of players yelling a lot and generally hyping each other up. But you believe what you want....

Also, Kelbo, ever think that the reason Roberts is nice about Kean is because he's starting more? Not, he's nice to Kean SO he starts more?

'For your thoughts are not my thoughts, neither are my ways your ways says the Lord' interesting quote from the bible but very true.

[super_arran]

'For your thoughts are not my thoughts, neither are my ways your ways says the Lord' interesting quote from the bible but very true.

So that's a no then?

[Kelbo]

So that's a no then?

If those are your thoughts

[47er]

I didn't agree with the appointment or the suicidal decisions made by Venky's.

But the negativity on here is astounding. The weird thing is, Kean's record isn't that far behind Big Sam's this season.

It's just the way everyone who posts anything remotely positive is shot down by the same people.

And for the record, I'd like to see Kean replaced, we won't kick on with him in charge.

Maybe I was out of line saying people were 'dismayed', but some people bloody well sound depressed about it!

I'm delighted we'd stayed up but fearful that 1) Kean won't be able to attract the players we need 2) won't have the ability to pick the right ones anyway (Santa Cruz?) 3) will have decisions forced on him and will be unable to resist 4) once the adrenalin of the relegation fight-back has worn off will go back to his around a point a game average.

In short I fear we might have to go through all this again. A strong leader is need to stand up to professional Premier League players and to "erratic" owners like we've got. IMO Kean is not that man.

However, he's staying and therefore I wish him well and genuinely hope I've got it wrong.

[super_arran]

If those are your thoughts

Depends if they're yours

[deftangel]

The amount of spin going on in this thread to articulate either entrenched viewpoint is somewhat dizzying. We go on a horrendous run and everything's Kean's fault then we turn a corner and all of a sudden it's got nothing to do with him. Would anybody being saying that had a couple of results not gone our way and we were relegated? No. It would be along the lines of "too little too late" etc.

Facts are we stayed up under his stewardship and he almost got us relegated. A reasonable view would be that we improved the last half dozen games but it is far from certain whether he can win us enough football matches. Therefore, continuing with his services represents a rather significant gamble regardless of whether you're inclined to give him a shot or will refuse to give him any credit whatsoever because it's important not to look wrong on the internet.

I would hope that credible alternatives that show an interest in replacing him are considered as I've certainly reservations about his judgement but equally, I would have some reservations about Benitez and McClaren too. I heard Avram Grant is available and he's got more premiership experience as a "proper" manager. Would anyone seriously swap him for Kean at the moment? I'd rather take the punt on him coming good.

If there's a proper opportunity to significantly upgrade the manager before the pre-season, we should do so. Otherwise he should get a proper pre-season and a mandate to show a demonstrable improvement in his own performance or else face the chop before Christmas.

[Gav]

So a 2min huddle changed the tactics of the game and everything?

Get a grip.

According to Roberts, the huddles consisted of players yelling a lot and generally hyping each other up. But you believe what you want....

Also, Kelbo, ever think that the reason Roberts is nice about Kean is because he's starting more? Not, he's nice to Kean SO he starts more?

Roberts has been great in the run in also, our best striker by a mile, most 'football experts' on here wouldn't have had him near the side which would have seen us go down for me.

Another A* for Steve Kean.

[alexanders]

Roberts has been great in the run in also, our best striker by a mile, most 'football experts' on here wouldn't have had him near the side which would have seen us go down for me.

Another A* for Steve Kean.

I agree with you. I am a 'football expert' and wouldn't have Roberts anywhere near our side. Roberts and also Emerton looked totally transformed for the last games. I have no clue why, but Roberts seemed to be able to use his hustle and bustle skills to bring pacey hoilett, olsson and emo in to play.

On the other hand his miss against Wolves is the reason we desperatly need a new striker. He scored when he didnt know it and fluffed a big chance when he was 1on1 with the keeper.

[47er]

I agree with you. I am a 'football expert' and wouldn't have Roberts anywhere near our side. Roberts and also Emerton looked totally transformed for the last games. I have no clue why, but Roberts seemed to be able to use his hustle and bustle skills to bring pacey hoilett, olsson and emo in to play.

On the other hand his miss against Wolves is the reason we desperatly need a new striker. He scored when he didnt know it and fluffed a big chance when he was 1on1 with the keeper.

Nice lay-off for Hoilett's goal though.

Accept that Hoilett still had a bit to do!

[Mattyblue]

Roberts has been great in the run in also, our best striker by a mile, most 'football experts' on here wouldn't have had him near the side which would have seen us go down for me.

Another A* for Steve Kean.

OOo GAV! you love stirring that pot

[davulsukur]

Why do you think the players started those pre-match huddles on the pitch in the last few matches of the season ? It's obvious the players are ignoring Kean and it's right they should take the plaudits for Rovers escaping relegation. Players on their own can only do so much however - in the end lame-duck managers have to be replaced.

These mindless posts to undermine Kean are getting ridiculous.

Criticise him, sure, but for the things that actually happen. Making stuff up in order to put him down further is a joke.

[ada2020]

I agree with you. I am a 'football expert' and wouldn't have Roberts anywhere near our side. Roberts and also Emerton looked totally transformed for the last games. I have no clue why, but Roberts seemed to be able to use his hustle and bustle skills to bring pacey hoilett, olsson and emo in to play.

On the other hand his miss against Wolves is the reason we desperatly need a new striker. He scored when he didnt know it and fluffed a big chance when he was 1on1 with the keeper.

Possibly because we had a settled(ish) eleven for the last 4-5 games, with Roberts being part of that settled look?

Players can build a head of steam when they get a run in the side, while others begin to learn what they will do with the ball and make runs etc accordingly.

Kean seems to have got some good performances out of Roberts and Emo as mentioned, he does deserve credit for that, though I'm no expert I wouldnt have had Roberts anywhere near the eleven when we were scrapping for survival.

Who would ever have predicted Brett would score in consecutive games?

[Gav]

OOo GAV! you love stirring that pot

Don't know what you mean

Roberts has been great in the run-in, but like alexanders points out "We desperately need a new striker"

Nothing wrong with giving praise where praise is due Matty.