[Archived] Steve Kean

[deftangel]

Roberts is capable of scoring when he has absolutely no time to think about it. Anything longer than a second and he's very poor. If he was coached just to belt the ball towards the goal without looking anytime it arrives to him in the box he could be potentially lethal. It's a strategy that works wonders for me

I think it's fair to say, Roberts was the best choice forward available for our last few games given Kean clearly had no faith in Kallinic who struggles for confidence at the best of times, Roque was disinterested and Diouf was a poor man's Roberts with pace and similarly woeful finishing.

[Majiball]

Roberts has been great in the run in also, our best striker by a mile, most 'football experts' on here wouldn't have had him near the side which would have seen us go down for me.

Another A* for Steve Kean.

De ja vu, Roberts also started playing well tail end of last season, perhaps we should only play in the last 10 or so of the season?

[Clitherover]

Interesting to see how much the poll has changed compared to the previous one.

I voted 'sack' in the first poll but am veering more towards 'keep' now because he is improving as a manager but i'm still not entirely convinced so voted 'Don't Care' because it's the closest thing to 'Undecided'.

[Ralfinho]

I think with a good pre season plus the addition of 2 or maybe 3 quality signings and the fact that Rochina and Formica will have had a full pre season especially Formica (chance to bulk up a bit), we should give Kean a chance to really show us what he can do without the added pressure of a relegation battle on his hands.

Can I also point out that I would like us to make the additional signings reasonably early in the transfer window then the players bought have time to settle and make friends with the rest of the squad.

I voted keep on this poll

[Gav]

De ja vu, Roberts also started playing well tail end of last season, perhaps we should only play in the last 10 or so of the season?

Maybe a run in the side is the reason for his upturn in form?

Or maybe a change in tactics and style? Allardyce tried to play a bit more football once safe last season, Kean has been doing that since he took over, but it took a while to bed in.

[Mattyblue]

Let's not get carried away, Roberts is a poor PL striker, his goal ratio for Rovers over 4 years is nowhere near good enough.

Saying that, he will be at the club next season and is always handy to have around, but we desperately need a couple of decent forwards.

[cruz]

Why do you think the players started those pre-match huddles on the pitch in the last few matches of the season ? It's obvious the players are ignoring Kean and it's right they should take the plaudits for Rovers escaping relegation. Players on their own can only do so much however - in the end lame-duck managers have to be replaced.

And the winner of Nonsense Post of 2011 is.....

[den]

DEN: I know that you were replying to Bucky, but if I might interject?...........nobody is claiming that Kean has done well per se, but there is no doubt at all if you are being fair minded that he most definitely has improved with games. Also there is no doubt at all that the players are right behind him and seem to have the right amount of respect for him.

He was already a well respected coach when he took over, and since then has improved as a manager also. He still has a way to go, but IMO he is getting there and if given more time he will continue to learn and improve. He also did OK (not brilliant but OK) in the Jan buys and loans. Who knows with Venky's money behind him he may be able to improve the playing staff in the key areas this summer? Why not just keep an open mind and give the guy a fair chance? That is what I intend to do anyway.

Hiya Fife, not seen you or Ernie for ages, hope you're both OK.

Open mind and a fair chance? Well, I think I've seen and heard enough for me to make my mind up. I said it all earlier Fife, as to why I don't like him. He talks bullsh1t. There's a list a mile long of the ridiculous quotes ranging from taking us into the top 5 with a £5m transfer fee, telling us how we dominated Everton at Goodison when in fact we were absolutely abysmal, to the run of positive results. So, do you fall for all this bunkum [sorry Gav]? Of course you don't. Is he just thick enough to believe that you and me can't see the truth, or is he bullsh1tting? Either way, it's not the way for a manager in any league to go about things.

January transfers I covered earlier also. Basically though, IMO he relied on JA to bring in JJ, Formica and Rochina because he wouldn't have the contacts within football. On one hand, that's Fair enough, but were likely still in that position now. Now then, as for his own judgement in the transfer market, well we've just paid RSC around £1.5m in wages for absolutely nothing - and he wants to bring him in permanently, along with Myles Anderson who's apparently going to be another Chris Smalling - good grief. So, JJ has done well for us, but as other posters have said elsewhere, I wouldn't like to pay too much for him. The other three signings haven't been seen. Can't see any way that that was a good transfer window.

There are other reasons why I wouldn't want him Fife. Tell me this, why stick with him when we could go and find a manager with contacts in the game, a reputation that could attract better players and more tactically aware than Kean has been. Don't forget, his substitutions have almost always weakened the team.

Anyway, I put a reasoned argument forward earlier and as I suspected, the usual three or four members simply read the first line "here's my reasons for not wanting Kean" and dived in arguing with every single point. Haven't bothered reading anything else since then, but saw your post this morning. I haven't read a detailed argument for appointing Kean yet. The only argument seems to be that he's improved. Well, he couldn't really have got any worse could he?

Off to Majorca tomorrow, ash cloud permitting . Gonna sit back this summer and see what happens at Ewood, mainly because we can't do sod all about it .

[John]

In relation to the transfer market/contacts, Kean does have SEM (and Jerome) to assist him - not saying that is neccessaily a bad thing as long as they are good players.

[den]

In relation to the transfer market/contacts, Kean does have SEM (and Jerome) to assist him - not saying that is neccessaily a bad thing as long as they are good players.

Personally, I prefer an experienced manager who has developed his own contacts with football John. A manager who knows the type of player that is needed to fit into his own gameplans. Why have someone who has to rely on an agent? Man City discovered it wasn't for them, cost them a fortune in agents fees didn't it?

[John]

Personally, I prefer an experienced manager who has developed his own contacts with football John.

So do I, however Venky's seem pretty adamant they want to use this working model.

As I said previously, if this all this works out successfully (in the long term) for BRFC it would be some story.

[RovertheHill]

Anyway, I put a reasoned argument forward earlier and as I suspected, the usual three or four members simply read the first line "here's my reasons for not wanting Kean" and dived in arguing with every single point.

Oooh harsh - I think I agreed with most of your points

[den]

Oooh harsh - I think I agreed with most of your points

Oh sorry RTH, yes yours was a very thoughtful and interesting reply.

I'm not making a big deal about it, just lost interest that's all. You know what it's like on here now, everything ends in an argument. - and no, I'm no angel.

[47er]

Oooh harsh - I think I agreed with most of your points

I agreed with all of them.

[John]

There are other reasons why I wouldn't want him Fife. Tell me this, why stick with him when we could go and find a manager with contacts in the game, a reputation that could attract better players

You also, ideally, want ambitious/good coaches who want to come and work under you.

[den]

I agreed with all of them.

I know 47er.

[OscarRaven]

Get rid, he won't pick up enough points. Too many draws, he can't close out games.

The budget won't be spectacular and certainly not enough if, as I suspect we will lose Samba, Jones (x2) and one from Olsson or Junior in the summer. He's not strong enough to keep them if they do want to go, I doubt a place on his players committee will swing it.

He is weak, we survived despite him. If he stays next season is already a write off for me, I can hear it now:

Commentator: Steve, thats 17 consequitive defeats, your heading for the championship aren't you?

Kean: No not all, we have had 15 or 16 postive performances and there are 63 points to play for, so we are still aimimg for a European place.

[otto man]

Get rid, he won't pick up enough points. Too many draws, he can't close out games.

The budget won't be spectacular and certainly not enough if, as I suspect we will lose Samba, Jones (x2) and one from Olsson or Junior in the summer. He's not strong enough to keep them if they do want to go, I doubt a place on his players committee will swing it.

He is weak, we survived despite him. If he stays next season is already a write off for me, I can hear it now:

Commentator: Steve, thats 17 consequitive defeats, your heading for the championship aren't you?

Kean: No not all, we have had 15 or 16 postive performances and there are 63 points to play for, so we are still aimimg for a European place.

Septic Peg has spoken!

[gumboots]

Get rid, he won't pick up enough points. Too many draws, he can't close out games.

The budget won't be spectacular and certainly not enough if, as I suspect we will lose Samba, Jones (x2) and one from Olsson or Junior in the summer. He's not strong enough to keep them if they do want to go, I doubt a place on his players committee will swing it.

He is weak, we survived despite him. If he stays next season is already a write off for me, I can hear it now:

Commentator: Steve, thats 17 consequitive defeats, your heading for the championship aren't you?

Kean: No not all, we have had 15 or 16 postive performances and there are 63 points to play for, so we are still aimimg for a European place.

Even relegated teams aren't expecting to lose that many of their players!

[alexanders]

Let's not get carried away, Roberts is a poor PL striker, his goal ratio for Rovers over 4 years is nowhere near good enough.

I think the commentator on Norwegian telly said he had the worst record of all PL strikers who have reached 200 games for a club.

Quite an achievement!

[tony gale's mic]

Why do you insist on blindly defending Big Sam, even when it's obvious he dropped the ball here? You're being a total hypocrite.

You might disagree with me but if you're going to use big words like "hypocrite" you should probably justify them.

What's obvious is that a fairly lightweight 19 year old player in his first season in English football would probably need a fair amount of time to get adjusted. What's obvious is that Sam gave him plenty of chances last season.

He showed enough to suggest he had more about his game than our other wingers. I'm sorry, maybe I'm just forgetting the midfield/striker options on offer for the past 18 months.

He showed enough to suggest he would eventually come good, but you can only pick players based on how they're playing. Look at pretty much every young player coming through. Unless there's an injury crisis, they'll get picked as a sub first, and then if they impress they'll get picked as a first teamer.

Hoilett didn't impress that much last season. No one really expected him to, because most people understand that as a 5ft 8 inch 19 year old, coming into position where you're regularly good enough to start games in your first season is a really big ask.

If a player performs well as a sub, he puts himself forward as being good enough to start.

If a player isn't performing well as a sub, it's highly unlikely he'll start playing well given the full 90 minutes.

Well, when you consider how poor Diouf was last season, it's even more shocking that Hoilett didn't play more.

If it was that shocking, there would have been an absolute outcry for Hoilett to play.

Yes I know you were going on about it, but you can cut the I told you sos because that doesn't actually mean you were right.

Hoilett didn't impress much at all last season. If he was starting every game last season do you think he'd play anything like the way he's been playing this season? Similarly, if we start putting Hoilett on a a sub, do you think he'll deliver the same performances as he did last season?

The Hoilett of this season and the Hoilett of last season are two different players. Young players develop with time.

Diouf was a passenger last season, but the team overall did well. There was less of an urge for Sam to rush a player into regular first team starts who had displayed in his numerous sub appearances that he wasnt really ready yet

Ah, another misguided attempt to undermine the manager. You're now implying that Hoilett's success under Kean was incidental.

Which part of "Diouf and Kean had their falling out, and Hoilett got his chance" do you disagree with?

Diouf started 4 out of Kean's first 6 games. Hoilett started two of them. Considering that he started 11 out of 38 games under Sam last season, that wasnt drastically different.

Then the big QPR incident happened, Diouf was sent packing and Hoilett got a regular spot on the right wing.

Oh pish. Hoilett was going nowhere under Sam. He was seen as a luxury that we couldn't afford to play in our rigid, percentage tactics. Sam wasn't willing to give him a serious run in the side, even when it was painfully obvious that our midfield lacked pace and urgency.

A luxury we couldnt afford to play. Only we started him 11 times and he came on as sub 16 times.

He was "going nowhere"? Jesus christ, he was a 19 year old playing his first season at the top level and had been deployed in the vast majority of his teams' games. What proportion of 19 year olds in Premier League squads do you think that applies to? He was brought on numerous times, but for the millionth time he barely produced anything of note other than displaying his potential which was plainly obvious to everyone.

Much like this season, Rocinha has displayed a fair amount of potential in the games we've seen him in. Is he ready for a regular first team slot though? Hell no.

If Sam was so anti him being in the side, why did he put so much effort in getting him to sign a new contract?

[yoda]

You might disagree with me but if you're going to use big words like "hypocrite" you should probably justify them.

What's obvious is that a fairly lightweight 19 year old player in his first season in English football would probably need a fair amount of time to get adjusted. What's obvious is that Sam gave him plenty of chances last season.

He showed enough to suggest he would eventually come good, but you can only pick players based on how they're playing. Look at pretty much every young player coming through. Unless there's an injury crisis, they'll get picked as a sub first, and then if they impress they'll get picked as a first teamer.

Hoilett didn't impress that much last season. No one really expected him to, because most people understand that as a 5ft 8 inch 19 year old, coming into position where you're regularly good enough to start games in your first season is a really big ask.

If a player performs well as a sub, he puts himself forward as being good enough to start.

If a player isn't performing well as a sub, it's highly unlikely he'll start playing well given the full 90 minutes.

If it was that shocking, there would have been an absolute outcry for Hoilett to play.

Yes I know you were going on about it, but you can cut the I told you sos because that doesn't actually mean you were right.

Hoilett didn't impress much at all last season. If he was starting every game last season do you think he'd play anything like the way he's been playing this season? Similarly, if we start putting Hoilett on a a sub, do you think he'll deliver the same performances as he did last season?

The Hoilett of this season and the Hoilett of last season are two different players. Young players develop with time.

Diouf was a passenger last season, but the team overall did well. There was less of an urge for Sam to rush a player into regular first team starts who had displayed in his numerous sub appearances that he wasnt really ready yet

Which part of "Diouf and Kean had their falling out, and Hoilett got his chance" do you disagree with?

Diouf started 4 out of Kean's first 6 games. Hoilett started two of them. Considering that he started 11 out of 38 games under Sam last season, that wasnt drastically different.

Then the big QPR incident happened, Diouf was sent packing and Hoilett got a regular spot on the right wing.

A luxury we couldnt afford to play. Only we started him 11 times and he came on as sub 16 times.

He was "going nowhere"? Jesus christ, he was a 19 year old playing his first season at the top level and had been deployed in the vast majority of his teams' games. What proportion of 19 year olds in Premier League squads do you think that applies to? He was brought on numerous times, but for the millionth time he barely produced anything of note other than displaying his potential which was plainly obvious to everyone.

Much like this season, Rocinha has displayed a fair amount of potential in the games we've seen him in. Is he ready for a regular first team slot though? Hell no.

If Sam was so anti him being in the side, why did he put so much effort in getting him to sign a new contract?

yawn

[tony gale's mic]

yawn

Wipe the dribble off your keyboard. Thanks.

[OscarRaven]

Even relegated teams aren't expecting to lose that many of their players!

With good reason. Although I suspect West Ham will lose more personally.

Samba is mentally already gone and has denoted his intentions at two of the most inappropitte points in the season - despite his superb performances he can't remain club captain for me after that behaviour.

J. Jones is happy to go back and probably has in all but wages... we can but hope. He was the difference for me.

P. Jones, Olsson and Junior would be ideal to hold onto but its going to be tough... I still think 2 out of the 3 will go, defo 1, its worth bearing in mind this is our aparent business model going forward.

[BuckyRover]

You might disagree with me but if you're going to use big words like "hypocrite" you should probably justify them.

What's obvious is that a fairly lightweight 19 year old player in his first season in English football would probably need a fair amount of time to get adjusted. What's obvious is that Sam gave him plenty of chances last season.

He showed enough to suggest he would eventually come good, but you can only pick players based on how they're playing. Look at pretty much every young player coming through. Unless there's an injury crisis, they'll get picked as a sub first, and then if they impress they'll get picked as a first teamer.

Hoilett didn't impress that much last season. No one really expected him to, because most people understand that as a 5ft 8 inch 19 year old, coming into position where you're regularly good enough to start games in your first season is a really big ask.

If a player performs well as a sub, he puts himself forward as being good enough to start.

If a player isn't performing well as a sub, it's highly unlikely he'll start playing well given the full 90 minutes.

If it was that shocking, there would have been an absolute outcry for Hoilett to play.

Yes I know you were going on about it, but you can cut the I told you sos because that doesn't actually mean you were right.

Hoilett didn't impress much at all last season. If he was starting every game last season do you think he'd play anything like the way he's been playing this season? Similarly, if we start putting Hoilett on a a sub, do you think he'll deliver the same performances as he did last season?

The Hoilett of this season and the Hoilett of last season are two different players. Young players develop with time.

Diouf was a passenger last season, but the team overall did well. There was less of an urge for Sam to rush a player into regular first team starts who had displayed in his numerous sub appearances that he wasnt really ready yet

Which part of "Diouf and Kean had their falling out, and Hoilett got his chance" do you disagree with?

Diouf started 4 out of Kean's first 6 games. Hoilett started two of them. Considering that he started 11 out of 38 games under Sam last season, that wasnt drastically different.

Then the big QPR incident happened, Diouf was sent packing and Hoilett got a regular spot on the right wing.

A luxury we couldnt afford to play. Only we started him 11 times and he came on as sub 16 times.

He was "going nowhere"? Jesus christ, he was a 19 year old playing his first season at the top level and had been deployed in the vast majority of his teams' games. What proportion of 19 year olds in Premier League squads do you think that applies to? He was brought on numerous times, but for the millionth time he barely produced anything of note other than displaying his potential which was plainly obvious to everyone.

Much like this season, Rocinha has displayed a fair amount of potential in the games we've seen him in. Is he ready for a regular first team slot though? Hell no.

If Sam was so anti him being in the side, why did he put so much effort in getting him to sign a new contract?

I reckon we might have lost a few older members of the forum whilst they were reading TGM's Sam posts.

Jesus Christ. I will never agree with you TGM.

Before Kean Hoilett quite good, during Kean very good.

You can talk about lag, opportunities, his age, maturity whatever you want to talk about but those are the simple facts. We will never be able to establish the reasons why, far too many variables but writing a long post about it isn't going to change anything.