[Archived] Steve Kean

[Ripleys love child]

Sam Allardyce got the players to believe in his methods.

Steve Kean has got the players to believe in themselves.

Got the players to believe in themselves ? 1 win in 15 was it?

[imy9]

And Hoilett was given his break against Liverpool, with Diouf relegated to the bench.

But wasn't the purported 'bust-up' after the QPR game? Which came AFTER that?

You have just wrecked a perfectly good made up story Topman, what did you do that for lol.

Got the players to believe in themselves ? 1 win in 15 was it?

2 wins in 4 was it not? You can see the style of football is evolving. A couple of years of playing a certain style will take longer then 21 games to eradicate- especially mid season.

[PAFELL]

Personally, I prefer an experienced manager who has developed his own contacts with football John. A manager who knows the type of player that is needed to fit into his own gameplans. Why have someone who has to rely on an agent? Man City discovered it wasn't for them, cost them a fortune in agents fees didn't it?

To add another angle to the debate. Did not the the experienced managers start at the beginning first, gaining contacts as they gained experience and reputation. This is not me advocating Kean. But just putting forward something to consider.

One thing that is in Keans favour, is the fact the players he is a manager of now are the same ones he also coached. So knows what he has seen the players do in training.

I wonder how much time Sam spent on the training ground.

Also if Kean was given instructions from Sam how he wanted the team set up / coached. Kean knew the reaction of the players to Sams instructions. So if the players didn't like what Sam was wanting, Kean would have known about it, so changing things when he became the manager, would have gained the players support.

Any new manager coming into the club needs time to get to know his squad. Kean already knew the players and he them.

[Kelbo]

Nope, just noting a fact.

I do believe it is better that more people back the manager, given the fact the board clearly are.

The negativity helps nobody.

Do the board have a say in the matter?

[BuckyRover]

You have just wrecked a perfectly good made up story Topman, what did you do that for lol.

2 wins in 4 was it not? You can see the style of football is evolving. A couple of years of playing a certain style will take longer then 21 games to eradicate- especially mid season.

But after a good end to the season and a full pre season under their belts.....

[John]

Do the board have a say in the matter?

Well, they didn't in the appointment in Steve Kean because they did not want him as manager.

[Kelbo]

Whatever is said now, we are stuck with him, everyone is aware where I stand regarding this matter, we shall wait and see what happens next year, how he fairs in the transfer market and then comment after we have seen the team play three or four games.

The biggest issue for me would be this, it would be useless to lose Samba and then struggle to replace him, personally, if Arsenal want Samba, fine, sell him with Kieran Gibbs as Part exchange in our favour, we then have Nelsen, Jones Givet and Hanley as Centre backs (dont forget young Peacock for the reserves) he could be as good at least as Hanley if not better, and a specialist left full back in Gibbs with Ollson as cover.

[BuckyRover]

Who thought he wouldn't sign because of Kean?

He's not banging Sam's drum that's for sure.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6951983,00.html

[Stuart]

Sod it, I'm convinced, I think Kean is the dog's danglers.

Over the last one games, he has a 100% record, and if I ignore the second half it was 3 goals and a clean sheet too.

This time next season, Rodney...

Wheeeeeeee.... This is fun!

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Sod it, I'm convinced, I think Kean is the dog's danglers.

Over the last one games, he has a 100% record, and if I ignore the second half it was 3 goals and a clean sheet too.

This time next season, Rodney...

Wheeeeeeee.... This is fun!

*Sigh*

[Ripleys love child]

Sod it, I'm convinced, I think Kean is the dog's danglers.

Over the last one games, he has a 100% record, and if I ignore the second half it was 3 goals and a clean sheet too.

This time next season, Rodney...Lol

Wheeeeeeee.... This is fun!

[thenodrog]

There is one thing which is common in young players, 'inconsistency' they set the levels of their performance and then tend to drop their performance for a while and then back again, Jones was different, he hasnt dropped the bar yet.

Decision making is down to experience and the more experience you gain, the less bad decisions you make, that is a learning curve and one which you as a player have to overcome, be disciplined and with the right attitude you will come through the ranks, if not this season, maybe the next, we have another exciting group of youngsters coming through and its credit to Phil Cannon and all the team at Brockhall for the development of these lads, watch out for a right/left full back called Adam Henley!!

There does seem a much better supply of players coming from thr academy. But development is a long job so would all these kids not have been signed by the last bloke in charge whose name just escapes me for the minute?

[Stuart]

Whatever is said now, we are stuck with him, everyone is aware where I stand regarding this matter, we shall wait and see what happens next year, how he fairs in the transfer market and then comment after we have seen the team play three or four games.

Ok, my last post went to extremes but this is my point. How many games does he get next year? What if he draws the first 4 games against Bolton, Norwich, West Brom and Newcastle? 4 more positive results or more Kean out posts?

[Bennisfromheaven]

Ah, optimism, Thats new!! I like it!!

Good man Jisty!!

[Exiled in Toronto]

There does seem a much better supply of players coming from thr academy. But development is a long job so would all these kids not have been signed by the last bloke in charge whose name just escapes me for the minute?

Yes. Everyone from the age of 11 to 20 not in the first team was signed by the last manager who was here for 2 years. There is no-one at the club from when Ince was here or before that.

[jim mk2]

Ok, my last post went to extremes but this is my point. How many games does he get next year? What if he draws the first 4 games against Bolton, Norwich, West Brom and Newcastle? 4 more positive results or more Kean out posts?

If we're in the bottom 3 after 15 matches Kean should be sent packing.

Personally I'd have done with it and bin him now - saves the trauma of another potential fight against relegation.

[PAFELL]

Yes. Everyone from the age of 11 to 20 not in the first team was signed by the last manager who was here for 2 years. There is no-one at the club from when Ince was here or before that.

Above 20 there is, Andrews, Grella.

[PAFELL]

Ok, my last post went to extremes but this is my point. How many games does he get next year? What if he draws the first 4 games against Bolton, Norwich, West Brom and Newcastle? 4 more positive results or more Kean out posts?

As much as we all want Rovers to win every match - we know that is not going to happen - even against simular teams / clubs to Rovers. I don't always judge on the result, but on the manner of the result. For example, Did the team play well? Did they fight for every ball etc? Was a bad result down to a bad referee decision? etc etc. If Rovers play like they did v everton this season, then yes replace the manager.

But the truth is, v Arsenal, West ham, fulham, wolves away, Liverpool, 2nd half v blackpool, man city, man u, home there has been some very good performances. The players do seem to behind Kean - maybe in the light of the last few matches where it is obvious the players are supporting Kean - maybe we should see how things pan out with Kean - or at least stop the bashing for awhile. See what happens in the transfer market.

Ok the recent perfomances could also be down to the supporters support. If we had protested the way some on here wanted to do so, then maybe perfomances would have been different. But that is speculation as we do not know this would have been the case.

But the players do seem to behind Kean and there must be a good reason for that.

Not saying I am in favour of Kean, just posting for debating sakes.

[davulsukur]

You might disagree with me but if you're going to use big words like "hypocrite" you should probably justify them.

What's obvious is that a fairly lightweight 19 year old player in his first season in English football would probably need a fair amount of time to get adjusted. What's obvious is that Sam gave him plenty of chances last season.

He showed enough to suggest he would eventually come good, but you can only pick players based on how they're playing. Look at pretty much every young player coming through. Unless there's an injury crisis, they'll get picked as a sub first, and then if they impress they'll get picked as a first teamer.

Hoilett didn't impress that much last season. No one really expected him to, because most people understand that as a 5ft 8 inch 19 year old, coming into position where you're regularly good enough to start games in your first season is a really big ask.

If a player performs well as a sub, he puts himself forward as being good enough to start.

If a player isn't performing well as a sub, it's highly unlikely he'll start playing well given the full 90 minutes.

If it was that shocking, there would have been an absolute outcry for Hoilett to play.

Yes I know you were going on about it, but you can cut the I told you sos because that doesn't actually mean you were right.

Hoilett didn't impress much at all last season. If he was starting every game last season do you think he'd play anything like the way he's been playing this season? Similarly, if we start putting Hoilett on a a sub, do you think he'll deliver the same performances as he did last season?

The Hoilett of this season and the Hoilett of last season are two different players. Young players develop with time.

Diouf was a passenger last season, but the team overall did well. There was less of an urge for Sam to rush a player into regular first team starts who had displayed in his numerous sub appearances that he wasnt really ready yet

Which part of "Diouf and Kean had their falling out, and Hoilett got his chance" do you disagree with?

Diouf started 4 out of Kean's first 6 games. Hoilett started two of them. Considering that he started 11 out of 38 games under Sam last season, that wasnt drastically different.

Then the big QPR incident happened, Diouf was sent packing and Hoilett got a regular spot on the right wing.

A luxury we couldnt afford to play. Only we started him 11 times and he came on as sub 16 times.

He was "going nowhere"? Jesus christ, he was a 19 year old playing his first season at the top level and had been deployed in the vast majority of his teams' games. What proportion of 19 year olds in Premier League squads do you think that applies to? He was brought on numerous times, but for the millionth time he barely produced anything of note other than displaying his potential which was plainly obvious to everyone.

Much like this season, Rocinha has displayed a fair amount of potential in the games we've seen him in. Is he ready for a regular first team slot though? Hell no.

If Sam was so anti him being in the side, why did he put so much effort in getting him to sign a new contract?

You Allardyce crusade amuses me.

Juniors form under Allardyce and then under kean should be all the evidence you need to show you that Sam acutally failed in regards to Junior.

Last season i can totally understand that Sam was giving him time to adjust and everything, but Juniors stats for Sams 19 games this season suggest he would have used Junior in a similar way, 5 starts (2 of which were cup games)only completing 90mins twice, 5 sub apps (3 of which were less than 15 mins) and 60mins against man utd away, at which point we were 3-0 down. would suggest Allardyce had no intention of giving him anymore game time this season, wouldn't you agree?

Then Kean comes in, and starts him twice in 6 games, strange how Sam is allowed a whole season to let junior adapt, and keans not even allowed 6 games? Junior spent a season and a half learning his trade under sam and then had to drastically change to adapt to keans methods.

Also i wouldn't call Junior a direct replacement for Diouf, as junior has been used in the "hole" behind the striker on occasions as well. And if Kean rated diouf that much he wouldn't have shipped out on loan anyway. He didn't HAVE to send him to rangers. could have quite easily dealt with the situation in house and kept him here.

And finally Junior has bagged 5 league goals under kean, never managed 1 under sam.

Credit to Sam for bringing him here, although probably John Williams and his staff deserve the credit for fighting for him as i imagine sam did very little/nothing with regards to paperwork for work permits etc to actually get him here.

Sam DID drop the ball on this one. Let it go.

[BuckyRover]

No credit to Sam for bringing him here. He's been on the books since he was 13

[joey_big_nose]

There does seem a much better supply of players coming from thr academy. But development is a long job so would all these kids not have been signed by the last bloke in charge whose name just escapes me for the minute?

Only Nzonzi can really be claimed as an Allardyce purchase. Also there can be some argument that Hoilett's contract extension and P Jones emergence as a decent player owe something to Allardyce. But this is somewhat undermined by Hoilett's heavy emphasis of Kean's importance in preference to Allardyce in his progress , and that Nzonzi has turned into a much better player since Allardyce left.

It's speculation, but my personal opinion is that the young players have flourished more under Kean than they would have under Allardyce.

[thenodrog]

These mindless posts to undermine Kean are getting ridiculous.

Criticise him, sure, but for the things that actually happen. Making stuff up in order to put him down further is a joke.

You may have a point davul but if this is indeed the case here then surely the ground rules were set by unfair and unfounded criticisms of the previous manager?

Who thought he wouldn't sign because of Kean?

He's not banging Sam's drum that's for sure.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6951983,00.html

I'd wait until he puts pen to paper Bucky if I were you.

[joey_big_nose]

If we're in the bottom 3 after 15 matches Kean should be sent packing.

Personally I'd have done with it and bin him now - saves the trauma of another potential fight against relegation.

Giving Kean 10-15 games makes sense to me. although I would be harsher on him. I would set the parameters as being around 12th or above at the 10 game mark. If we are below that then we need to be looking for a new man at the helm to replace him unless things dramatically improved over the next five games.

[thenodrog]

Sod it, I'm convinced, I think Kean is the dog's danglers.

Over the last one games, he has a 100% record, and if I ignore the second half it was 3 goals and a clean sheet too.

This time next season, Rodney...

Wheeeeeeee.... This is fun!

Indeed Jisty..... in fact I'd even place him slightly in front of those!

[greco]

You Allardyce crusade amuses me.

Juniors form under Allardyce and then under kean should be all the evidence you need to show you that Sam acutally failed in regards to Junior.

Last season i can totally understand that Sam was giving him time to adjust and everything, but Juniors stats for Sams 19 games this season suggest he would have used Junior in a similar way, 5 starts (2 of which were cup games)only completing 90mins twice, 5 sub apps (3 of which were less than 15 mins) and 60mins against man utd away, at which point we were 3-0 down. would suggest Allardyce had no intention of giving him anymore game time this season, wouldn't you agree?

Then Kean comes in, and starts him twice in 6 games, strange how Sam is allowed a whole season to let junior adapt, and keans not even allowed 6 games? Junior spent a season and a half learning his trade under sam and then had to drastically change to adapt to keans methods.

Also i wouldn't call Junior a direct replacement for Diouf, as junior has been used in the "hole" behind the striker on occasions as well. And if Kean rated diouf that much he wouldn't have shipped out on loan anyway. He didn't HAVE to send him to rangers. could have quite easily dealt with the situation in house and kept him here.

And finally Junior has bagged 5 league goals under kean, never managed 1 under sam.

Credit to Sam for bringing him here, although probably John Williams and his staff deserve the credit for fighting for him as i imagine sam did very little/nothing with regards to paperwork for work permits etc to actually get him here.

Sam DID drop the ball on this one. Let it go.

tgm has already admitted, that kean has done better regarding hoilett, but writing off the fact, that sam introduced junior and did so in an intelligent way, would be stupid.

Sam didnt bring junior here, he was already a rovers player when sam arrived, but im quite sure sam, had a hugep art to play, when getting him to sign a new contract.

sam might have failed in your view, but as sam finished 10th and kean finished lower, even with a better junior. what does that tell you about, who is failing.?

And may i remind you, that football is a team sport, so what one individual accomplishes really isnt relevant, unless its for the good of the team and its progress. but we didnt progress this season. Id rather have a poor kalinic upfront and finish 10th, than an excellent junior and finish lower.