[Archived] Steve Kean

[thenodrog]

Ok, my last post went to extremes but this is my point. How many games does he get next year? What if he draws the first 4 games against Bolton, Norwich, West Brom and Newcastle? 4 more positive results or more Kean out posts?

Kean and the new owners have proven nothing yet apart from the fact that they have not come close to matching the results of the previous regime. God only knows what the comments there would have been if the second half of last season had happened under the Walker Trust with allardyce at the helm.

The golfish imitators on here are so full of the Wolves match that they've already blanked out what went on before. I'd urge less triumphalism and more caution to be the way forward for some.

[thenodrog]

Yes. Everyone from the age of 11 to 20 not in the first team was signed by the last manager who was here for 2 years. There is no-one at the club from when Ince was here or before that.

Eh?

err... I meant the last bloke in charge of the academy.... Bobby Downes. After 12 years in charge he left in 2009. Now whether he was any good or not I don't know but surely he was in charge when the likes of Jones, Handley, Hoilett,etc etc were signed yet the credit on here appears to be being given to someone whose only been in charge for a short time.

Your haste to employ sarcasm in criticising me has overtaken your rationale. Try to keep up EiT.

[Kelbo]

There does seem a much better supply of players coming from thr academy. But development is a long job so would all these kids not have been signed by the last bloke in charge whose name just escapes me for the minute?

As I have posted elsewhere, Football Managers all agree that they never see the fruits of their labours regarding young players and new managers do come in and reap the rewards, however, when Allardyce brought Phil Cannon from Everton, he was aware of the record at Everton which was to bring through one young lad to the first team each year for the previous 15 years, coincidence or not, you be the judge.

[Mozzer]

i think we have to see how steve kean gets on in the first 7 games or something of the new season before sacking him

[thenodrog]

Credit to Sam for bringing him here, although probably John Williams and his staff deserve the credit for fighting for him as i imagine sam did very little/nothing with regards to paperwork for work permits etc to actually get him here.

Sam DID drop the ball on this one. Let it go.

I may be wrong but I seem to think that Hoilett has been here since he was about 13 and Hughes was in charge hasn't he? I seem to rem that he and his family were brought over from Canada and lived in a BRFC owned house on Old Gates and he attended St Bede's school. In order to obtain a work permit he was sent to play in Germany where the rules are interpreted differently.

[davulsukur]

tgm has already admitted, that kean has done better regarding hoilett, but writing off the fact, that sam introduced junior and did so in an intelligent way, would be stupid.

Sam didnt bring junior here, he was already a rovers player when sam arrived, but im quite sure sam, had a hugep art to play, when getting him to sign a new contract.

sam might have failed in your view, but as sam finished 10th and kean finished lower, even with a better junior. what does that tell you about, who is failing.?

And may i remind you, that football is a team sport, so what one individual accomplishes really isnt relevant, unless its for the good of the team and its progress. but we didnt progress this season. Id rather have a poor kalinic upfront and finish 10th, than an excellent junior and finish lower.

That Allardyce acheived a better finish with the team in a full season than what kean has in half?

The point in question had nothing to do with Allarydyce taking the team to a better league position. The point was Junior was going no where under Allardyce.

So Kean gets no credit as an individual for progressing Junior, but Sam does get credit as an individual as it benifits the team? Juniors progression helps the team as a whole, if he is playing well, he creates for others, as well as scoring goals - for the team.

[thenodrog]

Only Nzonzi can really be claimed as an Allardyce purchase. Also there can be some argument that Hoilett's contract extension and P Jones emergence as a decent player owe something to Allardyce. But this is somewhat undermined by Hoilett's heavy emphasis of Kean's importance in preference to Allardyce in his progress , and that Nzonzi has turned into a much better player since Allardyce left.It's speculation, but my personal opinion is that the young players have flourished more under Kean than they would have under Allardyce.

Bit unfair criticism that. Wasn't N'Zonzi either player of the year or young player of the year last season under Sam's tutelage jbn? I seem to think that something happened over the close season that set him back and left him unable to play to his previous standard.

[davulsukur]

I may be wrong but I seem to think that Hoilett has been here since he was about 13 and Hughes was in charge hasn't he? I seem to rem that he and his family were brought over from Canada and lived in a BRFC owned house on Old Gates and he attended St Bede's school. In order to obtain a work permit he was sent to play in Germany where the rules are interpreted differently.

True but was there not massive work permit issues regarding his move back to england from germany, pretty sure we had huge complications sorting it out, to which i imagine Allardyce did very little, probably no more than "i want Junior back playing at Blackburn, and not in Germany, please sort this out if you can John"

[thenodrog]

Sam didnt bring junior here, he was already a rovers player when sam arrived, but im quite sure sam, had a hugep art to play, when getting him to sign a new contract.

He didn't want to stay and expressed a desire to return to Germany. Allardyce persuaded him or his parents that his best future lay with BRFC in this country. He signed a contract but IK've a feeling that it was only a shorter term one than normal.

[thenodrog]

That Allardyce acheived a better finish with the team in a full season than what kean has in half?

The point in question had nothing to do with Allarydyce taking the team to a better league position. The point was Junior was going no where under Allardyce.

So Kean gets no credit as an individual for progressing Junior, but Sam does get credit as an individual as it benifits the team? Juniors progression helps the team as a whole, if he is playing well, he creates for others, as well as scoring goals - for the team.

One could even pose the question has Kean overplayed him given that he is still developing and his hamstrings are genuinely of concern? Who knows eh? Only time will tell.

True but was there not massive work permit issues regarding his move back to england from germany, pretty sure we had huge complications sorting it out, to which i imagine Allardyce did very little, probably no more than "i want Junior back playing at Blackburn, and not in Germany, please sort this out if you can John"

What would you have expected Allardyce to do exactly? He's a football manager not an admin assistant. Work permits are a very specialist field as are people qualified to handle such applications ....

... even though people who are adept at that must be 2 a penny in this town.

[davulsukur]

One could even pose the question has Kean overplayed him given that he is still developing and his hamstrings are genuinely of concern? Who knows eh? Only time will tell.

What would you have expected Allardyce to do exactly? He's a football manager not an admin assistant. Work permits are a very specialist field as are people qualified to handle such applications ....

... even though people who are adept at that must be 2 a penny in this town.

What would i expect him to do? Nothing/very little. Which is the point, people keep saying Allardyce deserves the credit for fighting to get him here, when in reailty he did nothing and therefore the credit should go to John Williams and his staff.

[John]

What would i expect him to do? Nothing/very little. Which is the point, people keep saying Allardyce deserves the credit for fighting to get him here, when in reailty he did nothing and therefore the credit should go to John Williams and his staff.

He did fly to Canada to meet his Dad, hardly doing nothing.

[davulsukur]

He did fly to Canada to meet his Dad, hardly doing nothing.

Hardly massive either, and still nothing to do with his work permit issues

[cruz]

Sorry to digress from what has been a rivetting conversation about Hoillet but some members said our win against Wolves came from 3 goals forged in the 'alleged' Big Sam Hoofball furnace.

Whilst the rain is bouncing down I have just been re-watching MOTD and noticed

Goal 1: Started with a throw in and after a good bit of hassling and 4/5 passes a wayward Salgado shot was re-directed into the net by Roberts

Goal 2: This one came out of Sam's user manual. Typical Robinson free kick into the Wolves box. Poor defensive header but nothing hoof about Emertons finish

Goal 3: From a poorly defended goal kick (only seen on the replay), Roberts touched it down and Hoillet created his own goal

So in fact it was only 1 goal out of 3 that came from percentage football.

Back to the great who created Hoillet debate.............

[jim mk2]

. The point was Junior was going no where under Allardyce.

This is nonsense. It's been pointed out many times that Hoillett wasn't ready physically or mentally to be a first-team regular under Allardyce. He had the talent obviously but he wasn't confident enough or strong enough to hold down a place - and he probably still isn't ready, witness all the injuries he has had. Players take time to develop and Hoilett is no different. To suggest Sam was in some way holding him back is wrong.

[47er]

As you said, Sam's gone and he ain't coming back!

[John]

People are so adamant in their views depending on how much they hated Sam (or dislike/don't rate Kean).

Clearly Sam/Kean both deserve credit for Junior's development and more recently (obviously) Kean for giving him game time - move on.

[jim mk2]

o in fact it was only 1 goal out of 3 that came from percentage football.

Two out of three from hoofball then.

Sorry forgot...... long passes with an ESSENCE of directnesss about them. - your quote. Just love that word "essence".

To Sam's detractors otherwise known as hoofball.

[davulsukur]

This is nonsense. It's been pointed out many times that Hoillett wasn't ready physically or mentally to be a first-team regular under Allardyce. He had the talent obviously but he wasn't confident enough or strong enough to hold down a place - and he probably still isn't ready, witness all the injuries he has had. Players take time to develop and Hoilett is no different. To suggest Sam was in some way holding him back is wrong.

He had all of last season to be "ready" for the prem. And it was only pointed out by other messageboard users, which is only an opinion. Players with pace to burn get hamstring injuries throughout their careers.

Still not ready? And you called my post nonesense

[chaddyrovers]

I am willing to give Steve kean a chance next season. I will judge him on the results next season.

we need to get a good start next season and alot of that will depending on NOT selling our best players and adding quality players to the squad. Also we need the fixtures to be good to us and hope we don't have to play any of the top 6 in the first 6 games. This will allow us to hopefully to get a good start to the season and push for the top 10!

[cruz]

Two out of three from hoofball then.

Sorry forgot...... long passes with an ESSENCE of directnesss about them. - your quote. Just love that word "essence".

To Sam's detractors otherwise known as hoofball.

Yep that's how I would describe a long ball to Roberts head rather than Pedersen hookig it blindly over his head. Glad you like it though Jim and it gives you something else to repeat

How can anyone describe a goal kick as hoofball? As far as I am aware it is a necessary action stated in the rule book. Watch Satudays game and even Barcelona will take one just like Robinson.

But hey don't let facts get in the way of your blinkered view Jimbo

[K-Hod]

Jim, have you been drinking? Hoilett seldom played under Allardyce, and has become a regular under Kean- and frankly our best attacking threat!

As much as I was a fan of BFS, to say he wasn't holding Hoilett back by not playing him is ludicrous, the form he's been in has been unbelievable, and unexpected, he's been one of our key players in the last few months!

Your bias towards Allardyce on this situation alone is frankly baffling......

[jim mk2]

He had all of last season to be "ready" for the prem. Players with pace to burn get hamstring injuries throughout their careers.

Still not ready?

You can spin it any way you like. Here's more spin. Hoilett did not seem injury prone under Sam but appears to be getting injured regularly under Kean. Is that Kean's training methods ?

The facts remains Hoilett was rightly gently eased into the team by Sam - he showed glimpses of his ability but didn't do enough to warrant a place. .

[Roverite28]

Odd sub appearance here and there doesnt build a players confidence. Getting a good run of games does. Under SA he was getting 10min here and there, under Kean he has had a run of games and flourished.

If SA would of gave him a run of games, who knows, he might of been awful then again he might of shown the same form as he has under Kean. Either way he has performed better since Kean has been in charge.

[davulsukur]

You can spin it any way you like. Here's more spin. Hoilett did not seem injury prone under Sam but appears to be getting injured regularly under Kean. Is that Kean's training methods ?

The facts remains Hoilett was rightly gently eased into the team by Sam - he showed glimpses of his ability but didn't do enough to warrant a place. .

Rightly eased in last season. What about this season?

He wont pick up injuries sat on the bench. And despite the injuries he has had with kean in charge he has played x10 better than he ever did under Sam.

If Sam was still here, chances are junior would not