[Archived] Steve Kean

[Gav]

Gav---it was 5 points after 17 games. After 34 games it would have been 10 points if our form had continued the same.

Crystal ball eh 47er.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Crystal ball eh 47er.

You got your wish, Sam was axed, you got your new man, as knowledgeable fans predicted results and performances would be far worse as you are now learning, we could quite easily go down, few are happy, but hey ho you got your wish. Amusing seeing how all the SA haters have had to feebly fumble around for things to support their arguments as the club descends further and further down the league.

[tony gale's mic]

4 points above the relagation zone someone said recently, hardy safe.

We were also 3 or 4 points off 7th place. The league was incredibly tight at that time. Why is it though that none of the people who were backing Sam make claims that he would have got us into Europe, yet all of the people who were against him claim that he might have taken us down? Despite the fact he's taken teams into Europe far more often than he's got them relegated (ie never).

And Sam had never been involved in so much as a relegation fight since his first couple of seasons after getting Bolton promoted (when it was expected they'd struggle), he certainly had Newcastle looking very safe from relegation before they fired him and subsequently got relegated, so to suggest there was a realistic chance he'd get us relegated this season flies in the face of everything he'd achieved previously.

It's one thing to be wrong, everyone is wrong from time to time (though some, evidently, more than others). But be so small and pathetic as being unable to admit you were wrong on an internet messageboard and to blindly argue one side without even considering the many points on the other side which outweigh it...well that takes a whole new level of person.

People who still argue that sacking Sam was the right thing to do either fall into the stubborn or stupid category for me. You don't strike me as that stupid Gav, but you're sure as hell stubborn.

[jim mk2]

Not wanting to bore you old bean, but the only part of the side Allardyce had improved during his time here, the defence, looked shambolic and still does, that in my book is taking us backwards and was reason enough to sack him.

There was no justification for sacking Sam - none whatsoever.

The stupidity of the decision is evident in the situation the club currently finds itself in.

Your stance does not make sense and does you no credit.

[Gav]

There was no justification for sacking Sam - none whatsoever.

The stupidity of the decision is evident in the situation the club currently finds itself in.

Your stance does not make sense and does you no credit.

I disagree Jim, he was taking us backwards.

In hindsight I wouldn't have replaced him with Kean, nobody expected that, we should have brought experience in, but we have to live with that decision.

You don't strike me as that stupid Gav, but you're sure as hell stubborn.

Can I please nominate TGM for post of the year, calling someone else stuborn

Thats made my day

[jim mk2]

I disagree Jim, he was taking us backwards.

Yes GAV, and the earth is round or do you still think it is flat ?

If you had a credit rating you would be a junk bond.

[tony gale's mic]

Can I please nominate TGM for post of the year, calling someone else stuborn

Thats made my day

I've seen psychiatric patients with more insight into themselves than you.

[Parsonblue]

Not wanting to bore you old bean, but the only part of the side Allardyce had improved during his time here, the defence, looked shambolic and still does, that in my book is taking us backwards and was reason enough to sack him.

All the Allardyce supporters keep throwing this line out, nobody knows what would have happened Did you see his last game in charge? that was the worst performance since Wigan away under Ince and on that form we were going down, make no mistake about that.

What was there about the Bolton game that makes you think we might have struggled for the remainder of the season? Jones went to sleep in midfield and didn't pick up Holden's run from midfield otherwise we would have had a point. How that compares to the shambles at Wigan under Ince I'm not quite sure. I'm not saying that Sam was the best manager in the world but he was right for this club in the situation we were in. Sadly, for all Venky's talk about finishing in the top four we are one point away from the relegation zone. Compare that with last season and a tenth place finish.

Personally, I'd happily take a few heavy defeats - and yes I was at Old Trafford - in return for mid-table security. Sam knew which matches had to be won for the club to survive. I don't believe that Kean and Desai have the slightest idea of how to keep this club afloat in the top flight, particularly on a limited budget.

[sparkspakespoke]

It amazes me that no one can seem to find any middle ground on this. To me its not as black and white as people make out.

Sam should not have been sacked when he was. It was naive to change mangers mid season for no reason.

Sacking him at the end of the season could have been justified. He has never taken a team foward from the position of mid table security, and to be honest its no given that he would be able to if he had the chance. Sam's tatics and approach to the game was pretty rigid and nothing in his carer shows he would be able or willing to make the changes needed to step up a level.

The real travesty in all this, for me, is the replacement of Sam with Kean. Appointing someone so inexperianced when the owners had tme to look around and make an informed decsion is looking like an unforgivable decision.

[Gav]

Yes GAV, and the earth is round or do you still think it is flat ?

If you had a credit rating you would be a junk bond.

Jim, did you see improvement this season compared to last? I'm not interested in reasons for or against, just if you saw improvement.

It amazes me that no one can seem to find any middle ground on this. To me its not as black and white as people make out.

The real travesty in all this, for me, is the replacement of Sam with Kean.

I've said the same myself, that is middle ground, the Allardyce lovers struggle with the middle ground concept though.

[mark1875]

Jim, did you see improvement this season compared to last? I'm not interested in reasons for or against, just if you saw improvement.

and have you seen improvement since he was sacked?

[chris]

god change the record someone, agree to disagree.

[tony gale's mic]

It amazes me that no one can seem to find any middle ground on this. To me its not as black and white as people make out.

Sam should not have been sacked when he was. It was naive to change mangers mid season for no reason.

Sacking him at the end of the season could have been justified. He has never taken a team foward from the position of mid table security, and to be honest its no given that he would be able to if he had the chance. Sam's tatics and approach to the game was pretty rigid and nothing in his carer shows he would be able or willing to make the changes needed to step up a level.

The real travesty in all this, for me, is the replacement of Sam with Kean. Appointing someone so inexperianced when the owners had tme to look around and make an informed decsion is looking like an unforgivable decision.

It amazes me that people can write rubbish like this and think they're occupying some sort of "sensible middle ground".

Sam's first season was all about saving us from the horrors of the Ince debacle. Which he did pretty comfortably in the end.

His second season was all about stability and pointwise we were as close to the Champions' League as we were to 17th.

What on earth more did you expect from someone with a limited squad and a negative transfer budget? Surely mid table security in the second season was all we could have hoped for? Maybe we should have outdone Everton who both had an excellent manager and could afford to spend £28 million on two midfielders alone (despite all their talk of financial woes).

And nothing in his career showed he could take the club further? How about multiple European qualifications with Bolton and missing out on a Champions' League spot with them by a whisker one season?

The league is tougher now, there's more teams with far more money these days so I doubt he would've done the same with us. But to demand more than mid table security from ANY manager with the resources is a totally unrealistic expectation and doesn't occupy any sort of sensible middle ground.

[Gav]

I've seen psychiatric patients with more insight into themselves than you.

I used to work with someone like you TGM, he was kept around to entertain the lads when times got difficult because apart from that he was useless. Please don’t ever leave this site, not sure I could handle it, especially in times such as these.

[tony gale's mic]

I've said the same myself, that is middle ground, the Allardyce lovers struggle with the middle ground concept though.

Er..no. What you've been saying is even more ridiculous. You've been arguing that sacking Sam at that point was the right thing to do.

I can see why you'd try and find someone else to support you in this argument as they'd be few and far between...

[onlyonejackwalker]

It amazes me that people can write rubbish like this and think they're occupying some sort of "sensible middle ground".

Sam's first season was all about saving us from the horrors of the Ince debacle. Which he did pretty comfortably in the end.

His second season was all about stability and pointwise we were as close to the Champions' League as we were to 17th.

What on earth more did you expect from someone with a limited squad and a negative transfer budget? Surely mid table security in the second season was all we could have hoped for? Maybe we should have outdone Everton who both had an excellent manager and could afford to spend £28 million on two midfielders alone (despite all their talk of financial woes).

And nothing in his career showed he could take the club further? How about multiple European qualifications with Bolton and missing out on a Champions' League spot with them by a whisker one season?

The league is tougher now, there's more teams with far more money these days so I doubt he would've done the same with us. But to demand more than mid table security from ANY manager with the resources is a totally unrealistic expectation and doesn't occupy any sort of sensible middle ground.

Yeah and well said.

[sparkspakespoke]

It amazes me that people can write rubbish like this and think they're occupying some sort of "sensible middle ground".

Sam's first season was all about saving us from the horrors of the Ince debacle. Which he did pretty comfortably in the end.

His second season was all about stability and pointwise we were as close to the Champions' League as we were to 17th.

What on earth more did you expect from someone with a limited squad and a negative transfer budget? Surely mid table security in the second season was all we could have hoped for? Maybe we should have outdone Everton who both had an excellent manager and could afford to spend £28 million on two midfielders alone (despite all their talk of financial woes).

And nothing in his career showed he could take the club further? How about multiple European qualifications with Bolton and missing out on a Champions' League spot with them by a whisker one season?

The league is tougher now, there's more teams with far more money these days so I doubt he would've done the same with us. But to demand more than mid table security from ANY manager with the resources is a totally unrealistic expectation and doesn't occupy any sort of sensible middle ground.

Gosh your angry little chappy aren't you? You have just had an argument with youself though there as didnt say at any point I expected him to have done better than he did.

My point is that there are questions about his ability to go beyond this, and yes you are right he did have some success with Bolton and they qualified for Europe twice, however as you also said the league has changed a great deals ince then and I think it favours progressive managers such as Coyle rather than Sam.

Just my opinion though, although the fact that Sam has never got a bigger job does suggest other people question if he has the ability to go to the next level and that he may not be as good as he thinks he is.

There is always a middle ground, the fact you cant see it in the case suggests you are either enjoying be angry and isluting people too much or you are just stuid. Most likely a bit of both.

[tony gale's mic]

I used to work with someone like you TGM, he was kept around to entertain the lads when times got difficult because apart from that he was useless. Please don’t ever leave this site, not sure I could handle it, especially in times such as these.

I've never worked with someone like you Gav, people like you generally don't make it as far as the medical school interview let alone into the profession itself.

[Gav]

I've never worked with someone like you Gav, people like you generally don't make it as far as the medical school interview let alone into the profession itself.

Going to the match tomorrow TGM?

Gosh your angry little chappy aren't you? You have just had an argument with youself though there as didnt say at any point I expected him to have done better than he did.

You are either enjoying be angry and isluting people too much or you are just stuid. Most likely a bit of both.

He's in the medical profession you know, which explains alot.

[sparkspakespoke]

I've never worked with someone like you Gav, people like you generally don't make it as far as the medical school interview let alone into the profession itself.

Ahhh you're a doctor, that explains a lot. I've had the misfortune of working with quite a few MD's and without doubt they are among the most idodtic and pig headed people around.

No wonder you cant have a reasonable debate, you guys are actually incapable of even considering there may be another view than your own. At least I know now so I wont waste anymore time trying to have any kind of debate with you.

[tony gale's mic]

Gosh your angry little chappy aren't you? You have just had an argument with youself though there as didnt say at any point I expected him to have done better than he did.

My point is that there are questions about his ability to go beyond this, and yes you are right he did have some success with Bolton and they qualified for Europe twice, however as you also said the league has changed a great deals ince then and I think it favours progressive managers such as Coyle rather than Sam.

Just my opinion though, although the fact that Sam has never got a bigger job does suggest other people question if he has the ability to go to the next level and that he may not be as good as he thinks he is.

There is always a middle ground, the fact you cant see it in the case suggests you are either enjoying be angry and isluting people too much or you are just stuid. Most likely a bit of both.

No anger, just some disbelief at the earth shattering lack of footballing insight some fans of my club possess. As someone who has enjoyed a good chuckle at Newcastle and Liverpool fans for their footballing delusions, I don't like seeing Rovers fans display similar characteristics.

So by your logic, we should have ditched Sam, a perfectly good manager in the summer and gone searching for an Owen Coyle, who firstly still has yet to achieve anything like what Sam achieved in the game (although there's every chance he will and more), and secondly if he does end up doing so will be a complete rarity. When Sam was sacked we had just lost a tight game at the Reebok before which we were only a point or two off them.

No other Premier League managers in the last ten years have achieved what Allardyce, Hughes, Pulis and Coyle have done with small teams. If you can think of another name to add to that list who wasn't a flash in the pan one season wonder then go right ahead.

But according to your logic we should have ditched a manager who is already a rare breed in this league, and tried to find another.

The league HAS changed, but it still favours managers with more money than anything else.

Positioning your opinion in between a sensible stance and an utterly crazy stance doesn't automatically make your position "middle ground".

Going to the match tomorrow TGM?

Yes I am, going back to visit the family too, just been in Rio de Janeiro for the best part of three weeks where I got closer to Ronaldinho than Venky's ever did..

How is that relevant in the discussion Gav?

[otto man]

Ahhh you're a doctor, that explains a lot. I've had the misfortune of working with quite a few MD's and without doubt they are among the most idodtic and pig headed people around.

No wonder you cant have a reasonable debate, you guys are actually incapable of even considering there may be another view than your own. At least I know now so I wont waste anymore time trying to have any kind of debate with you.

I love it! " The Doc" gets a kicking. You really aint that well liked are ya Doc!

[Gav]

Yes I am, going back to visit the family too, just been in Rio de Janeiro for the best part of three weeks where I got closer to Ronaldinho than Venky's ever did..

How is that relevant in the discussion Gav?

Rio de Janeiro.........Medical profession........Ronaldinho.........you're a card TGM you really are, I've not laughed as much in ages, stick around.

As for relevance, I'm glad you'll be there cheering along the lads, but even if you didn't plan to go, you'd not tell me now would you

"Whens the next messageboard get together? I need to meet this guy"

[tony gale's mic]

Ahhh you're a doctor, that explains a lot. I've had the misfortune of working with quite a few MD's and without doubt they are among the most idodtic and pig headed people around.

Ah, another famous "middle of the road" opinion. I'm sure the general public totally agrees with that middle ground opinion when they come to us in their hour of need...

Rio de Janeiro.........Medical profession........Ronaldinho.........you're a card TGM you really are, I've not laughed as much in ages, stick around.

As for relevance, I'm glad you'll be there cheering along the lads, but even if you didn't plan to go, you'd not tell me now would you

"Whens the next messageboard get together? I need to meet this guy"

It's not a bad life really. Beats sticking around in Blackburn, for sure.

I'm pretty sure you've asked me this question before and I've told you when I haven't been there. Kinda weird you find it so necessary to monitor my attendance, between that and my appearance in your signature I'm worried I might have a stalker on my hands..

Will you be asking the same question of the hundreds of non-UK resident Rovers fans on our boards?

[sparkspakespoke]

No anger, just some disbelief at the earth shattering lack of footballing insight some fans of my club possess. As someone who has enjoyed a good chuckle at Newcastle and Liverpool fans for their footballing delusions, I don't like seeing Rovers fans display similar characteristics.

So by your logic, we should have ditched Sam, a perfectly good manager in the summer and gone searching for an Owen Coyle, who firstly still has yet to achieve anything like what Sam achieved in the game (although there's every chance he will and more), and secondly if he does end up doing so will be a complete rarity. When Sam was sacked we had just lost a tight game at the Reebok before which we were only a point or two off them.

No other Premier League managers in the last ten years have achieved what Allardyce, Hughes, Pulis and Coyle have done with small teams. If you can think of another name to add to that list who wasn't a flash in the pan one season wonder then go right ahead.But according to your logic we should have ditched a manager who is already a rare breed in this league, and tried to find another.

The league HAS changed, but it still favours managers with more money than anything else.

Positioning your opinion in between a sensible stance and an utterly crazy stance doesn't automatically make your position "middle ground".

Yes I am, going back to visit the family too, just been in Rio de Janeiro for the best part of three weeks where I got closer to Ronaldinho than Venky's ever did..

How is that relevant in the discussion Gav?

Really? If you're including Pulis then what about Woy at Fulham? Saved them one year , qualified for Europe the next, cup final in last year? Whats about O'Neill at Leicester? Did so well he ended up at Celtic? Or even Sratchan at Coventry at Southampton? Harry Redknapp at Pompey? Alan Curbishley at Charlton....