[Archived] Steve Kean

[Majiball]

See post above dearest. Chelski have a new man in too. We are guaranteed to finish 17th, and the longer we keep Kean for the higher up the league we will move. Let the others sack their managers and keep him in for forty years. We'll win every season.

Your an incredibly literal person aren't you, good luck with that.

[braddock]

Your an incredibly literal person aren't you, good luck with that.

Thank you

[Majiball]

Thank you

Your welcome, feel free to comeback anytime you need insulting again.

Alternatively actually respond to my post and my comments as opposed to silly retorts like Chelsea will be relegated. Because to put it simply for you (since it appears you need every thing spelling out for you), if Chelsea can almost win the champions league with Grant in charge, do you see pretty much the same team going down under someone who went unbeaten and won a european competition in his first full season as a manager after starting his career in his youth? You might want to look at the experience he has surrounded himself with and the people behind the scenes like Nesti and Forde. I'll spell it out for you next time.

As I said your far to literal and if you want to shot me down your going to have to try harder.

[braddock]

Your welcome, feel free to comeback anytime you need insulting again.

Alternatively actually respond to my post and my comments as opposed to silly retorts like Chelsea will be relegated. Because to put it simply for you (since it appears you need every thing spelling out for you), if Chelsea can almost win the champions league with Grant in charge, do you see pretty much the same team going down under someone who went unbeaten and won a european competition in his first full season as a manager after starting his career in his youth? You might want to look at the experience he has surrounded himself with and the people behind the scenes like Nesti and Forde. I'll spell it out for you next time.

As I said your far to literal and if you want to shot me down your going to have to try harder.

Haha, you think I think Chelsea will go down? I was laughing at you implying rookie managers cannot succeed. True, it's harder for them but not all fail. It is you who is taking what I say far too literally.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Your welcome, feel free to comeback anytime you need insulting again.

Alternatively actually respond to my post and my comments as opposed to silly retorts like Chelsea will be relegated. Because to put it simply for you (since it appears you need every thing spelling out for you), if Chelsea can almost win the champions league with Grant in charge, do you see pretty much the same team going down under someone who went unbeaten and won a european competition in his first full season as a manager after starting his career in his youth? You might want to look at the experience he has surrounded himself with and the people behind the scenes like Nesti and Forde. I'll spell it out for you next time.

As I said your far to literal and if you want to shot me down your going to have to try harder.

Maj, you clearly don't like Kean and Venky's - fair enough - but most people I know who follow a team want to believe things will improve, not wallow in how things might go tits up. A month ago you were on about let's see who we buy. Now the list looks great it's what's the point with Kean in charge of them. If we win a couple of games early it'll be something else. YOu're not going to convince many people to join you in your depression, so just come out and say you don't like them no matter what happens. Less stressful for all of us.

[Majiball]

Haha, you think I think Chelsea will go down? I was laughing at you implying rookie managers cannot succeed. True, it's harder for them but not all fail. It is you who is taking what I say far too literally.

No but you have revealed your train of thought and confirmed I was right, so thank you. So Villas Boas is a Rookie in your mind, wow. you do know he started coaching etc at 14 and is now 33 don't you. He has had one of the best footballing eduction I have ever seen working with Mourinho & robson, I won't mention what he did in his first full season as a manager or what he did in the first stint either, which could both be compared to Keans since you feel they are of the same ilk.

You see Braddock I guessed all you wanted to do was attempt to ridicule my comments for whatever reason and all you have done is show that was your intent. You've even gone as far to highlight a team that has experience throughout its core to attempt to do so, in Chelsea. So basically you've shown that if someone posts something you don't like, as opposed to reasoning with them and discussing points, you belittle with whatever you can. Thank you for exposing yourself as the troll I have always said you are.

EiT, When have I ever tried to garner friends on here? I say what I think and feel based on what I see and am told, if you find my posts depressing fine, put me on ignore. I've have frequently stated what it will take for Venky's to gain my support, actions that reflect their words, when they do I will toe the line. One month ago we had Jones and now we don't, the jewel in our crown gone for peanuts, because of yet another mistake. Care to dispute that? Kean why does my opinion that he is not capable enough to be our manager have to equate to me not likely him I don't see the correlation since I don't know him personally.

[braddock]

No but you have revealed your train of thought and confirmed I was right, so thank you. So Villas Boas is a Rookie in your mind, wow. you do know he started coaching etc at 14 and is now 33 don't you. He has had one of the best footballing eduction I have ever seen working with Mourinho & robson, I won't mention what he did in his first full season as a manager or what he did in the first stint either, which could both be compared to Keans since you feel they are of the same ilk.

You see Braddock I guessed all you wanted to do was attempt to ridicule my comments for whatever reason and all you have done is show that was your intent. You've even gone as far to highlight a team that has experience throughout its core to attempt to do so, in Chelsea. So basically you've shown that if someone posts something you don't like, as opposed to reasoning with them and discussing points, you belittle with whatever you can. Thank you for exposing yourself as the troll I have always said you are.

EiT, When have I ever tried to garner friends on here? I say what I think and feel based on what I see and am told, if you find my posts depressing fine, put me on ignore. I've have frequently stated what it will take for Venky's to gain my support, actions that reflect their words, when they do I will toe the line. One month ago we had Jones and now we don't, the jewel in our crown gone for peanuts, because of yet another mistake. Care to dispute that? Kean why does my opinion that he is not capable enough to be our manager have to equate to me not likely him I don't see the correlation since I don't know him personally.

Haha, no, your point was on Premiership experience. That was what you were saying led to someone being a rookie. You are claiming McLeish is a rookie. He isn't.

Please will you read your own posts, then read the responses, in full. Try to get some context as to whether things have sarcasm in, then make a reply if you think you would like to.

I think you need to look up a troll too. I'm giving responses to the more ridiculous posts and in that post was being sarcastic. A huge difference to being a troll as a troll would never be so blatant with the sarcasm and would be trying his/her hardest to make his post look sincere.

[Majiball]

Haha, no, your point was on Premiership experience. That was what you were saying led to someone being a rookie. You are claiming McLeish is a rookie. He isn't.

Please will you read your own posts, then read the responses, in full. Try to get some context as to whether things have sarcasm in, then make a reply if you think you would like to.

I think you need to look up a troll too. I'm giving responses to the more ridiculous posts and in that post was being sarcastic. A huge difference to being a troll as a troll would never be so blatant with the sarcasm and would be trying his/her hardest to make his post look sincere.

So if the point was premiership experience what does rookie refer to then? premiership experience. But you choose extremes to retort with to supposedly point out a flaw in my argument that was literal not content based.

If you think my post was ridiculous then debate it and offer up alternatives and positives, but you can't, can you. So your mission is to decide what is ridiculous and then belittle the poster, your own words. Troll or whatever your only here to cause problems and you've admitted as much.

Enjoy.

[imy9]

Maji- you have given a number of reasoned responses-as always, however a few points I'd like to make-

PJ in my opinion was not sold for 'peanuts' the most expensive fee for a teenage defender in history if I'm not mistaken, plus a 20% sell on fee- you know as well as me that when a player decides to leave a club can do very little- the fee for me was top dollar for a player who has played 30 odd pl games.

Secondly Vilas will succeed at Chelsea partly because of the squad he has inherited. That is why I feel with half a dozen quality players Rovers will be top 10 next season, yes the table does not lie but with a bit of luck and a couple of decent strikers we would have been top 10 last season IMO.

My view on Venkys has been that after September 1st if they have not delivered on the pitch then they will no longer have my support, this is the time to put up or shut up.

[braddock]

Experienced premier league manager indeed

Holloway - 12 months

Mcleish - 24 months, but won the league cup

Grant - the king of relegation 36 months

Take a look at the table and at the bottom you'll see all the rookies. I despair at the thought of him getting 38 games.

You name the managers who were relegated, list their Prem experience, then say at the bottom of he league you see all the rookies. What do you not understand Majiball?

I was simply making a point that I don't believe it is the case that rookie managers always finish at the bottom. There are other factors such as squad strength. Next season I would hope we will have a stronger squad, at least in terms of playing the kind of football Kean wants to play.

[Majiball]

Maji- you have given a number of reasoned responses-as always, however a few points I'd like to make-

PJ in my opinion was not sold for 'peanuts' the most expensive fee for a teenage defender in history if I'm not mistaken, plus a 20% sell on fee- you know as well as me that when a player decides to leave a club can do very little- the fee for me was top dollar for a player who has played 30 odd pl games.

Secondly Vilas will succeed at Chelsea partly because of the squad he has inherited. That is why I feel with half a dozen quality players Rovers will be top 10 next season, yes the table does not lie but with a bit of luck and a couple of decent strikers we would have been top 10 last season IMO.

My view on Venkys has been that after September 1st if they have not delivered on the pitch then they will no longer have my support, this is the time to put up or shut up.

Imy9, hope your well and thanks for the civilised response.

As everyone in life does I formulate my opinions based on my experience, knowledge and opinions I trust. As everyone on here knows the actions of our owners and their words are so far apart I will not support them in any shape or form until they do tie in. In my experience when actions and words do not tie together, something is up, whether that's asset stripping, incompetence or something else who knows, but we'll definitely find out and either will be to our detriment. You see I think it's incompetence on the part of many people, but Venky's hold the position of power and they have the potential to invoke change. But they don't. Why? They have found out in the first 10 months exactly how unforgiving football is and we almost got relegated, which would have crippled their investment. Yet they still listen to Kentaro, still support Kean and have removed everyone who aided in us staying for the last 10 years or so. I understand they want to put their own stamp on things, but all I see is change for the sake of it, not the need. JW almost instant appointment to City showing his status in the game and yet we just slung him out the door, despite saying we wouldn't.

Carroll went for 35 million with how many premier league games? 18. That happened before Jones signed his new contract. Jones despite his age IMO was worth far more than 16.5M as despite it being a record I do not believe it representative of his talent or potential. I believe the comments in the media of bargain signing prove me correct and Liverpool willing to bid 20+M.

When have I said Villas will not succeed? My posts are long enough but if I really have to add in every aspect they'll take up pages. My issue is simple 12 months ago we were a top 10 ten were we not? We finished 5 places lower and with a glorious new record of the worst run in modern history. So Kean took a team that finished 10th almost got them relegated and now we're going to give him 50M to put us back where we were when he took over??? Forgive me for not getting excited as incompetence is the word that springs to my mind.

The PJ disaster has made my mind up and since they've said we no longer have to sell our best and brightest, why even bother with a release clause, did the player demand it or us? Just look at how they reacted? How do people know? Did your trusted agents not advise you here? Its a farce yet again, akin to sacking Sam and removing everyone who has experience. It just makes no sense, nothing they have done to date does and I will not follow blindly as I cannot see them succeeding. The only way for things to be put right is through the fans and through them enforcing change, but that won't happen as they have said they will spend 50 million. If you wanted to spend 50 million and you were Venky's given all that happened last season would you be trusting the word of your advisors or Kean to spend it wisely? I wouldn't not in a million years. What happens if it all goes wrong? More money another 50 million?

You name the managers who were relegated, list their Prem experience, then say at the bottom of he league you see all the rookies. What do you not understand Majiball?

I was simply making a point that I don't believe it is the case that rookie managers always finish at the bottom. There are other factors such as squad strength. Next season I would hope we will have a stronger squad, at least in terms of playing the kind of football Kean wants to play.

So you can appreciate that there are other factors such as squad strength and yet you use one of the strongest squads in the league to highlight a supposed flaw in my post. Alternatively next time perhaps you might want to assume that I haven't mentioned them, one primarily because he wasn't here last year and two because no-one believes chelsea will be in that position for other reasons. So since you know there are other factors involved can you not consider that others would as well and these can go unwritten?

You were not making a point by your own admission you decided my post was ridiculous and you wanted to ridicule me. Stop backtracking it's there for all to see now and in your own posts.

[braddock]

So you can appreciate that there are other factors such as squad strength and yet you use one of the strongest squads in the league to highlight a supposed flaw in my post. Alternatively next time perhaps you might want to assume that I haven't mentioned them, one primarily because he wasn't here last year and two because no-one believes chelsea will be in that position for other reasons. So since you know there are other factors involved can you not consider that others would as well and these can go unwritten?

You were not making a point by your own admission you decided my post was ridiculous and you wanted to ridicule me. Stop backtracking it's there for all to see now and in your own posts.

The likelihood is we will have a stronger team next season in terms of the football that Kean wants to play. This is why I don't believe we will be in a scrap. We'll be better suited to Kean, and he will be better suited to us. You are twisting and turning, not I.

[Miker]

If you look at the past couple of seasons, the top 10 has been secured by clubs with more established managers. I think the exception to the rule so far has only been Zola and arguably McLeish and Pulis. Although Zola nearly got West Ham relegated the following season and McLeish DID get Birmingham relegated, twice in fact. Pulis has obviously done exceptionally well, but he's still had a long managerial career and also worked under Redknapp for a time where he surely got some useful knowledge. Thing is, Zola was a well-known international and Premier League player and McLeish had some success in Scotland. Villas-Boas for that matter, although not much experience in the Premier League, learnt from the best in Sir Bobby Robson and Mourinho. Having worked with superstar players and some fairly average ones, he's surely got plenty of experience and knowledge of the game and the manager's job, despite his young age.

Kean, on the other hand... well...

I'm not sure who to compare him to. Unlike most managers, he's NEVER managed before, especially at Premier League level. The only club that he's ever coached at that's had relative success was Fulham. Unlike Villas-Boas, who studied under Robson and Mourinho, Kean's only mentors have been Coleman and Allardyce.

[den]

Maj, you clearly don't like Kean and Venky's - fair enough - but most people I know who follow a team want to believe things will improve, not wallow in how things might go tits up.

They did, didn't they?

[imy9]

Imy9, hope your well and thanks for the civilised response.

HI MATE AM VERY WELL, AS SAID EARLIER YOU ARE A VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE POSTER WHOSE OPINION I RATE HIGHLY.

As everyone in life does I formulate my opinions based on my experience, knowledge and opinions I trust. As everyone on here knows the actions of our owners and their words are so far apart I will not support them in any shape or form until they do tie in. In my experience when actions and words do not tie together, something is up, whether that's asset stripping, incompetence or something else who knows, but we'll definitely find out and either will be to our detriment. You see I think it's incompetence on the part of many people, but Venky's hold the position of power and they have the potential to invoke change. But they don't. Why? They have found out in the first 10 months exactly how unforgiving football is and we almost got relegated, which would have crippled their investment. Yet they still listen to Kentaro, still support Kean and have removed everyone who aided in us staying for the last 10 years or so. I understand they want to put their own stamp on things, but all I see is change for the sake of it, not the need. JW almost instant appointment to City showing his status in the game and yet we just slung him out the door, despite saying we wouldn't.

I UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY WHAT YOU HAVE SAID HERE AND WOULD AGREE WITH MOST OF IT. JW AND FINN AT OUR CLUB RIGHT NOW WOULD HAVE BETTER IMO, HOWEVER THEY PAID THE MONEY AND ULTIMATELY THEY WILL LIVE OR DIE BY THEIR DECISIONS, SO IN THAT SENSE ITS RIGHT THAT THEY CAN CHANGE WHATEVER THEY LIKE- WHETHER ITS RIGHT OR WRONG WE'LL FIND OUT LATER ON.

Carroll went for 35 million with how many premier league games? 18. That happened before Jones signed his new contract. Jones despite his age IMO was worth far more than 16.5M as despite it being a record I do not believe it representative of his talent or potential. I believe the comments in the media of bargain signing prove me correct and Liverpool willing to bid 20+M.

LIVERPOOL HAVE COMPLETELY WRECKED THE MARKET- CARROLL WAS NEVER WORTH £35 MILLION, £15 MILLION- £20 MAX, HOWEVER HE IS A PREMIER LEAGUE STRIKER AND THEY ARE WORTH FAR MORE THAN MIDFIELD PLAYERS AND THEY IN TURN ARE WORTH MORE THAN DEFENDERS. NICKO ALREADY SAID THAT LIVERPOOLS BID WAS A CHEEKY BID NEVER INTENDED TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY AS THEY KNEW PJ WAS GOING TO MAN UTD. EXAMPLES OF DEFENDERS AND THEIR WORTH- SIMON KJAER- 22 YEARS OLD, A BETTER DEFENDER THAN PJ (IMO) WENT FOR £12 MILLION TO WOLFSBURG WHEN HE WAS 21, CAHILL AT BOLTON 25 WORTH ABOUT £17 MILLION BY HIS CLUB BUT IS VASTLY MORE EXPERIENCED AND AN INTERNATIONAL PLAYER.

When have I said Villas will not succeed? My posts are long enough but if I really have to add in every aspect they'll take up pages. My issue is simple 12 months ago we were a top 10 ten were we not? We finished 5 places lower and with a glorious new record of the worst run in modern history. So Kean took a team that finished 10th almost got them relegated and now we're going to give him 50M to put us back where we were when he took over??? Forgive me for not getting excited as incompetence is the word that springs to my mind.

WHEN WE FINISHED 10TH IT WAS DESERVED BUT OUR TEAM HAS BEEN GETTING STRIPPED YEAR UPON YEAR AND THIS YEAR OUR FORWARD LINE OF BENJANI/MBD/KALINIC/ROBERTS WAS ONE OF THE WORST IN THE LEAGUE. IT'S ALSO INTERESTING TO SEE THAT WHEN PJ WAS OUT OF OUR SIDE WE WENT THROUGH OUR WORST RUN BUT WHEN HE WAS BACK OUR RESULTS IMPROVED CONSIDERABLY. AS POOR A RUN AS WE HAVE HAD AND WE ENDED UP 7 POINTS BEHIND THE PREVIOUS YEARS TOTAL- CAN WE MAKE UP AT LEAST 7 POINTS WITH £50 MILLION INVESTMENT? I WOULD CERTAINLY BACK US.

The PJ disaster has made my mind up and since they've said we no longer have to sell our best and brightest, why even bother with a release clause, did the player demand it or us? Just look at how they reacted? How do people know? Did your trusted agents not advise you here? Its a farce yet again, akin to sacking Sam and removing everyone who has experience. It just makes no sense, nothing they have done to date does and I will not follow blindly as I cannot see them succeeding. The only way for things to be put right is through the fans and through them enforcing change, but that won't happen as they have said they will spend 50 million. If you wanted to spend 50 million and you were Venky's given all that happened last season would you be trusting the word of your advisors or Kean to spend it wisely? I wouldn't not in a million years. What happens if it all goes wrong? More money another 50 million?

THERE IS INKLING THAT THERE WAS AN INITIAL RELEASE CLAUSE IN PJ'S CONTRACT OF ABOUT £8 MILLION (DONT KNOW IF THIS IS TRUE), BUT IF IT IS THEN I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT PUTTING £16.5 MILLION INTO THE CONTRACT WAS A WAY OF PROTECTING OUR ASSET. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME SINCE I HAVE BEEN A ROVERS SUPPORTER THAT I CAN RECALL A TOP PLAYER BEING SOLD WITH A CLAUSE BENEFITING US! AS NICKO HAS SAID THE MONEY IS NOT IN THE FORM OF DEBT- IT IS THEIR OWN MONEY- THAT BEING THE CASE THEY WILL HAVE TO LEARN THE HARD WAY.

[cn174]

no need to shout

[imy9]

no need to shout

Was not trying too, but multi quoting, only realised I could bold everything after I'd finished! Will do that next time

[Exiled in Toronto]

They did, didn't they?

Finishing 15th? How did you feel when we were in the bottom 4 of the 3rd division?

[JAL]

Go back a few pages it, a court of law requires less proof than some on here!lol

As poor a run we had last year Kean managed to turn it around and we played some good football at the end of the season, he has some positives.

...and from that moment on it would seem some of the key players are leaving the club. Wanting to leave imy9.

Whats up doc!

Do we have a problem at the club ?

[greco]

imy9

phil jonse is a better player, when compared to simon kjaer. Not only better, but also more versatile. Furthermore kjaer imo, is closer to his full potential, then jones is.

Majiball

some excellent posts, filled with points, that can be related too. Especiaaly when you mentioned, that there has to be consistency, between words and actions. Sadly it will be written of, as bonafie hate, by some with much weaker arguments.

[Amo]

...and from that moment on it would seem some of the key players are leaving the club. Wanting to leave imy9.

Whats up doc!

Do we have a problem at the club ?

We finished sixth in 2006, and yet Craig Bellamy still left for Liverpool, leaving behind his beloved Hughes, as well.

Did we have a problem at the club?

[JAL]

We finished sixth in 2006, and yet Craig Bellamy still left for Liverpool, leaving behind his beloved Hughes, as well.

Did we have a problem at the club?

From whats been said about Bellamy, he only ever agreed to come for one season just for Mark Hughes, a big difference Topman.

[Majiball]

HI MATE AM VERY WELL, AS SAID EARLIER YOU ARE A VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE POSTER WHOSE OPINION I RATE HIGHLY.

I UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY WHAT YOU HAVE SAID HERE AND WOULD AGREE WITH MOST OF IT. JW AND FINN AT OUR CLUB RIGHT NOW WOULD HAVE BETTER IMO, HOWEVER THEY PAID THE MONEY AND ULTIMATELY THEY WILL LIVE OR DIE BY THEIR DECISIONS, SO IN THAT SENSE ITS RIGHT THAT THEY CAN CHANGE WHATEVER THEY LIKE- WHETHER ITS RIGHT OR WRONG WE'LL FIND OUT LATER ON.

I guess we will and I truly hope to god it all works out, because if it doesn't? Well I'm not convinced we'll see another 50M to spend and I hope to jehovah Mrs D doesn't do to rovers what she did to her brother last pet project.

LIVERPOOL HAVE COMPLETELY WRECKED THE MARKET- CARROLL WAS NEVER WORTH £35 MILLION, £15 MILLION- £20 MAX, HOWEVER HE IS A PREMIER LEAGUE STRIKER AND THEY ARE WORTH FAR MORE THAN MIDFIELD PLAYERS AND THEY IN TURN ARE WORTH MORE THAN DEFENDERS. NICKO ALREADY SAID THAT LIVERPOOLS BID WAS A CHEEKY BID NEVER INTENDED TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY AS THEY KNEW PJ WAS GOING TO MAN UTD. EXAMPLES OF DEFENDERS AND THEIR WORTH- SIMON KJAER- 22 YEARS OLD, A BETTER DEFENDER THAN PJ (IMO) WENT FOR £12 MILLION TO WOLFSBURG WHEN HE WAS 21, CAHILL AT BOLTON 25 WORTH ABOUT £17 MILLION BY HIS CLUB BUT IS VASTLY MORE EXPERIENCED AND AN INTERNATIONAL PLAYER.

Don't get me wrong Carroll was never worth 35M but clubs are willing to spend serious cash these days on the right kids. Look at the Sanchez figures being banded around crazy money, but that's the point. The fact he is English doubles his value, Jones for example is easily as good as Cahill at 19 and he's only going to get better, he will captain England one day, Cahill won't. The other players you mention are great examples of quality players but they are not English and not in demand by major english clubs. Liverpool bid, you don't get a fax through saying we bid 20M, but its only cheeky wink, the cheekiness was that was what they were willing to pay or start at that. Rovers should have learnt from the past IE Bellamy etc. When were we not told by JW there would be no release clauses? (I'm not 100% on that but pretty sure it was said), so if there was a 8M in the previous contract I'd be a little miffed, but given the supposed knowledge and clout of the almighty Kentarovers you would have thought they would have advised against, most people seem to think he's a bargain after watching the other night. But they did and we lost out, badly because 20 or maybe even 25 is enough to pay for Cisse. Inserting or agreeing to that clause was stupidity of the highest order, there reaction showed they thought so as well.

WHEN WE FINISHED 10TH IT WAS DESERVED BUT OUR TEAM HAS BEEN GETTING STRIPPED YEAR UPON YEAR AND THIS YEAR OUR FORWARD LINE OF BENJANI/MBD/KALINIC/ROBERTS WAS ONE OF THE WORST IN THE LEAGUE. IT'S ALSO INTERESTING TO SEE THAT WHEN PJ WAS OUT OF OUR SIDE WE WENT THROUGH OUR WORST RUN BUT WHEN HE WAS BACK OUR RESULTS IMPROVED CONSIDERABLY. AS POOR A RUN AS WE HAVE HAD AND WE ENDED UP 7 POINTS BEHIND THE PREVIOUS YEARS TOTAL- CAN WE MAKE UP AT LEAST 7 POINTS WITH £50 MILLION INVESTMENT? I WOULD CERTAINLY BACK US.

Fair do's points win prizes and with a 50M spend I'd expect higher than that and at least 8th staying in the euro chances towards the end. But I remember most not having any faith at all towards the end based on what they were seeing, results we may have gotten but the performances were not great even at the end. Perhaps results like United home maybe different next year now we can't offer Jones release value as incentive to hang out for a point and not go for our throat, lol? I just don't see enough from Kean on the sidelines, the players ignore him and sometimes don't even do what he asks them too and don't even start me on his team selections or subs. Good coach maybe but he's no manager and the players know it.

PJ in the team was awesome and most teams of any calibre have a club grown player or two, with our stated ambitions no-one should underestimate what having a fan in the team can do on the pitch, your highlighted point with results and Jones in the team is an interesting compliment. Lets hope it's not an issue next year then as currently we are weaker on the pitch.

THERE IS INKLING THAT THERE WAS AN INITIAL RELEASE CLAUSE IN PJ'S CONTRACT OF ABOUT £8 MILLION (DONT KNOW IF THIS IS TRUE), BUT IF IT IS THEN I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT PUTTING £16.5 MILLION INTO THE CONTRACT WAS A WAY OF PROTECTING OUR ASSET. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME SINCE I HAVE BEEN A ROVERS SUPPORTER THAT I CAN RECALL A TOP PLAYER BEING SOLD WITH A CLAUSE BENEFITING US! AS NICKO HAS SAID THE MONEY IS NOT IN THE FORM OF DEBT- IT IS THEIR OWN MONEY- THAT BEING THE CASE THEY WILL HAVE TO LEARN THE HARD WAY.

If there was then shame on JW, but until it's outright stated there was an inkling is just that. Even so as I have said when things are crazy don't tie your hands together or if you are going down that road be like a Spanish club and over value. Any release clause sets a cap for the bidding war and we all know there would have been one for sure. As when Liverpool and United are bidding against the same player, neither will want to lose and that's only good for the seller, missed oppurtunity (I realise this could not be predicted but when you tie your hands with clauses). I see it as an opportunity missed through stupidity an issue JW had settled with his statement that there would be no more(finger crossed), de ja vu, well done football experts who negotiated that contract and congratulations on your awesome knowledge of business and football (Kentarovers?). We had people at the club already who would have ensured learning the hard way could have been avoided, perhaps we should have kept them on? Wonder where that advise came from?

No slant on Nicko, but at the end of the day any info he will receive will be originated from Venky's and so when I see it from companies house I will truly believe. Their track record sucks at truthfulness, no one can argue that.

Sorry if it seems like a rant Imy9 but I'm far from happy with the Roa rein and any anger present is aimed at them not you.

[imy9]

imy9

phil jonse is a better player, when compared to simon kjaer. Not only better, but also more versatile. Furthermore kjaer imo, is closer to his full potential, then jones is.

Majiball

some excellent posts, filled with points, that can be related too. Especiaaly when you mentioned, that there has to be consistency, between words and actions. Sadly it will be written of, as bonafie hate, by some with much weaker arguments.

Simon Kjaer has played in a World Cup and instead of joining Chelsea or AC Milan, he chose Palermo- a much smaller team to develop as a player, he then moved to Wolfsburg and Juve are now interested. He is only 22 so could not possibly say whether he is close to his full potential but having proven himself in two leagues and on the international stage too, there is no question in my mind that Kjaer is currently a better player that PJ.

Also actions such as:

1. Cheapest season tickets in the football league.

2. Spending 70K on the fans vs Wolves.

They are doing things and hopefully by 1st September there will be happier people on here due to our spending spree which will NOT be debt based and is The Raos cash being used.

Maji- No issues from me Pal, reasoned points that are maturely debated on here seems to be rarity so I'll take it when it arrives!

[AggyBlue]

Also actions such as:

1. Cheapest season tickets in the football league.

2. Spending 70K on the fans vs Wolves.

Did we not already have the cheapest season tickets prior to the take over? Have you renewed yours?

Did we not lay on free coach travel to away games numerous times prior to the take over at considerable cost?

As for the transfer speculation we'll wait and see what happens.