[Archived] Steve Kean

[Exiled in Toronto]

Well at least you've abandoned that silly positional change thing you were using before. But if we're being accurate and comparing drops in points per game, looking at that % difference in performance is arguably much more of a reliable indicator.

Because surely a manager dropping 0.2 ppg when he averages almost 2.0 ppg is less of a deal and will make less difference to the overall performance than when he averages closer to 1 point per game, would you not agree?

Under Wenger Arsenal dropped the number of points they got per game by 9% in the period they described. Even then fans were aghast by the drop in their performance over the second half of the season. Some were making the argument that maybe Wenger had lost it.

When we changed from Sam to Kean, we dropped the number of points per game we got by 16% in the same amount of time.

It's unlikely we would have had exactly the SAME since statistically alone thats unlikely, however it's likely we would have achieved a very similar level of performance. And again, we were a very consistent club maintaining a very consistent level of performance under Sam over two years, not just 17 games.

I see your fact-based argument still rests entirely on the use of the word 'likely'.

Let's look at how consistent Sam was in his time here using the same Dec 18th cut off

Post Ince: 1.333ppg

1st 18 games next season: 1.055 (-21%)

Last 20 that season: 1.55 (+47%)

Ist 17 games last season: 1.235 (-20%)

Very consistent indeed!

[LeChuck]

He’s a victim in all of this as much as we are

Balls.

He said he thought £5 million per season could get us challenging for Europe. He said he was "sure" we would be in the Champions League in a few years.

He said whatever Venky's wanted to hear to get the job.

However, I must admit I do have some sympathy for what is going at present. If he can't even bring in Pavone then his hands must really be tied.

[davulsukur]

I wouldn't exactly call him a victim Gav. He was given the job of managing a premier league team, and would have had a lot of help from Kentaro getting the gig.

He's a lucky sod to be in the job at all, you would be hard pressed to find anyone (outside Kentaro) who thought he was the right man for the job.

He's still saying we have a "healthy budget", so the owners are not really shafting him too much and I don't recall the owners ever saying we had £40million to spend either. Steve Kean is the architect of his own downfall by saying we are not a champions league team - yet.

[chris]

Balls.

He said he thought £5 million per season could get us challenging for Europe. He said he was "sure" we would be in the Champions League in a few years.

He said whatever Venky's wanted to hear to get the job.

However, I must admit I do have some sympathy for what is going at present. If he can't even bring in Pavone then his hands must really be tied.

I really dislike Kean interviews but I don't remembering him saying we could compete for Europe on £5 mill per transfer window.

Not sure when he said this.

[LeChuck]

I really dislike Kean interviews but I don't remembering him saying we could compete for Europe on £5 mill per transfer window.

Not sure when he said this.

I'll have a go at finding it, I'm rubbish at finding old news articles though.

Here you go - http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11676_6605651,00.html

"Can we finish in the top five only spending £5 million? It is a fair comment if everyone is fit. That has slightly changed because we have a few injuries."

Feeding Venky's those lies has helped lead the disillusionment they must be feeling this summer. They have quickly found out that to achieve anything near what they want will cost a LOT more than £5 million. Kean will have known this, but 'positive thinking' was required to land him the job.

[Steve Moss]

We were 13th; three points off 7th place and with 21 points from 17 games.

Had we carried on at this rate, we wouldve finished up 10th. Again.

You people who like to knock Sam aren't very bright now, are you?

We will see who was the better manager come the end of this season.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sam was a premier league manager this time next year and Kean a championship one.

If he keeps his job.

We need five players at least, decent ones at that, just to reach a decent squad size. Quality like for like for players we have lost, and almost got us relegated with, is not going to happen.

I see no logical reason why we will not be scrapping for survival from game one.

I believe that with Kean we will be in a relegation battle from the onset. He lacks the experience, nerve and gravitas of a top 10 manager.

I believe this to be true even if they give Kean 10-20 million as a transfer budget. He is NOT a proper manager, in my opinion. He is a mere coach.

Nothing like a show of gratitude and loyalty is there? It won't be long before you and yours will be begging for Allardyce to return. Best manager for a club with no money in both the Prem and then Championship.

I agree with this. Year after next I suspect there will be some squawking when Allardyce is bending Kean over.

• Over-draft/ Debt = £18m
  
• Phil Jones Fee = £16m rising to £20.5m
  
• Venkys minimum budget per window £5m
  

Serious question - IF Venkys cleared our over-draft/ debt with the PJ money, would people be happy for them to only spend the £10m on fees this season and also sign freebies?

Yes. Eliminating the debt, and keeping it eliminated, is in the best interest of the club. Interest payments are for suckers.

Let's face it we are stook with Steve Kean for the immediate future and i don't know if that's a good thing or not but i know he's no good for the future of this club.

Also, how many other premiership manager would fly out to India or anywhere for that matter to see the owners? Have they never heard of f**king Skype lol.

Kean is, in my opinion, weak. Can you imagine any of the top 10 managers hoping on a plane and flying out to India on a monthly basis? They wouldn't tolerate either the distraction or the symbolism that they have to kiss the hand to the King (or Queen, as the case may be). The best managers have pride and spine both, and in spades.

Venkys/Raos need to figure out that they need a real manager if the club is going to survive as a global marketing vehicle. When it comes to qualifications, they should focus on the first three letters, MAN. Not a lap dog.

[tony gale's mic]

I see your fact-based argument still rests entirely on the use of the word 'likely'.

Let's look at how consistent Sam was in his time here using the same Dec 18th cut off

Post Ince: 1.333ppg

1st 18 games next season: 1.055 (-21%)

Last 20 that season: 1.55 (+47%)

Ist 17 games last season: 1.235 (-20%)

Very consistent indeed!

And so you drop the Wenger argument too.

He fairly consistently achieved more than 1.23 points per game (which would have achieved a top 10 finish) apart from the first bit of 2009/10.

The bit where he achieved 1.55 ppg is surely a good thing no?

So bearing in mind he's had one stretch where he's achieved worse but then more than made up for it by doing much better - it's still very likely he would've achieved that level of performance in the second half of the season.

And of course "likely" is the only word that can be used. "Definitely" isn't a word that can usually be used when you're saying what would have happened.

[Gav]

Balls.

He said he thought £5 million per season could get us challenging for Europe. He said he was "sure" we would be in the Champions League in a few years.

He said whatever Venky's wanted to hear to get the job.

However, I must admit I do have some sympathy for what is going at present. If he can't even bring in Pavone then his hands must really be tied.

I don't recall him saying that LeChuck, I think he came out with the comment around the same time as Nicko posted the 40-50m figure, so he was listening to the owners.

Could be wrong though.

[Exiled in Toronto]

So bearing in mind he's had one stretch where he's achieved worse but then more than made up for it by doing much better - it's still very likely he would've achieved that level of performance in the second half of the season.

Statistics isn't your strong point really, is it?

[LeChuck]

This stats thing has gone way out of control!

It all started with TGMs statement that Rovers consistently showed top 10 form under Allardyce.

- In Sam's first season got 28 points from 21 games. 50.6 points over a full season = 10th.

- Second season we finished 10th

- Final season we were 1 point from 10th when he left, with a points-per-game ratio that would have seen us 10th over a full season.

Taking that into account, quite why anyone would decide to argue with TGMs statement is totally beyond me.

Sure, we could have nosedived in the second half of that final season. It happens to teams. You would have absolutely nothing to base that assumption on though given that there is 2 years worth of evidence to the contrary.

[rebelmswar]

This stats thing has gone way out of control!

It all started with TGMs statement that Rovers consistently showed top 10 form under Allardyce.

- In Sam's first season got 28 points from 21 games. 50.6 points over a full season = 10th.

- Second season we finished 10th

- Final season we were 1 point from 10th when he left, with a points-per-game ratio that would have seen us 10th over a full season.

Taking that into account, quite why anyone would decide to argue with TGMs statement is totally beyond me.

"Blind hatred" is such a correct and well defining discriptive term.

[LeChuck]

I don't recall him saying that LeChuck, I think he came out with the comment around the same time as Nicko posted the 40-50m figure, so he was listening to the owners.

Could be wrong though.

I posted the one link I could find a few posts above yours. I'm sure there were more quotes too, they're not easy to find though.

[tony gale's mic]

Statistics isn't your strong point really, is it?

Is that the best you can come back with?

You're the man who tried to pass off "average position change" as some sort of accurate statistical measure when your starting point was a league table with 4 points between 16th and 8th

[imy9]

I am sure there is a Sam Allardyce thread... I started it

[Exiled in Toronto]

Is that the best you can come back with?

You're the man who tried to pass off "average position change" as some sort of accurate statistical measure when your starting point was a league table with 4 points between 16th and 8th

Of course I should have been using stochastic terms such as 'usually' and 'most likely' supported by no data at all!

Anyway, I fear we are preventing others from posting Kean is a lying donut on gardening leave insights on here.

[chris]

I'll have a go at finding it, I'm rubbish at finding old news articles though.

Here you go - http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11676_6605651,00.html

"Can we finish in the top five only spending £5 million? It is a fair comment if everyone is fit. That has slightly changed because we have a few injuries."

Feeding Venky's those lies has helped lead the disillusionment they must be feeling this summer. They have quickly found out that to achieve anything near what they want will cost a LOT more than £5 million. Kean will have known this, but 'positive thinking' was required to land him the job.

wow I can't remember that, I'll wait until the windows over before I call him an idiot again.

[EgyptianPete]

wow I can't remember that, I'll wait until the windows over before I call him an idiot again.

Another day of nothingness no real news just bickering, someone somewhere in the know spill the beans or just don't say anything.

Ta

[A cup of beans]

Another day of nothingness no real news just bickering, someone somewhere in the know spill the beans or just don't say anything.

Ta

today isnt over yet, pete!

[booth]

today isnt over yet, pete!

You see that will mean I'm attached to my laptop all night now, checking if anyone's been signed...

[gumboots]

You see that will mean I'm attached to my laptop all night now, checking if anyone's been signed...

I can save you the trouble - nobody will have been and they won't tomorrow either. I'm prepared to pm you the news if I'm wrong. Now go and enjoy your evening.

[EgyptianPete]

I can save you the trouble - nobody will have been and they won't tomorrow either. I'm prepared to pm you the news if I'm wrong. Now go and enjoy your evening.

Why thank you kind sir, tomorrows another day full of hope and ???????? well lets see shall we

[rebelmswar]

Why thank you kind sir, tomorrows another day full of hope and ???????? well lets see shall we

Its Ma'am, just like Chaddy, not everyone on here is male.

[John]

Edit post, sorry no need for insults.

[EgyptianPete]

Its Ma'am, just like Chaddy, not everyone on here is male.

Please accept my sincere apologies for being, well wrong

[Bennisfromheaven]

So a premier league player claims he would rather retire than play for Kean??

Our PR team are working overtime on this one!!

"Mariano is a big fan of Steve Kean, he was very impressed with him and would love the chance to play for him.