[Archived] Steve Kean

[AndyC]

Well I certainly base my opinions on what I see on the pitch and Saturday apart, Kean has set up the system wrong, gives the players nothing from the touchline, unlike other managers,finally he is tactically inept more designed to please the owners than to pick up points, please remember when you speak about what we see on the pitch, when did we last win a game? how many points have we collected under Kean and finally, what is our position in the league table?

I went to Arsenal at the weekend and Kean set up the team magnificently.

Arsene might have said they were lacklustre, but that shouldn't mask what was a very strong performance.

One swallow a summer does not make.....and I remain very skeptical as to whether he can do a job long term for us, but Saturdays performance was very strong.

[Gav]

haha! Very good

No he isn't.... i think like all jobs - you need to find your feet after a settling in period! I really think he has settled in now and he is growing into the position. Everyone needs to start somewhere.

He's not been given a chance by most on here, hung out to dry after only a couple of months in the jobs, sad really.

Couldn't agree more Vintage, if he guides us through this troubled time he'll have done very well indeed, that said I'd look for a new manager in the summer if it was me.

[Amo]

Hoilett was given more than enough chances by Allardyce....

I stopped there.

So yes, another idiotic and unrealistic expectation, and given we finished 10th under Sam, I'm not sure how much higher in the league you think this pacy football would have got us.

I think it stands to reason that if our team adopted a Plan B (especially for away games) we would accumulate more points and therefore finish higher up on the table. My real gripe is the argument that a club of our size can only compete by playing the lowest, primitive style of football.

Our point against Arsenal wasn't hoofball. Was it the football masterclass Venky's are wanting? Nope. But it certainly wasn't hoofball.

The "constant bitch fest" as you call it is a very natural response that fans of any club would have, when they see their team go from one which achieved four top 10 finishes in the last five years and which was one of the best-run in the country, to one with owners that are now the butt of many a joke - and quite rightly so.

What part of "People have every right to voice their concerns about the club" didn't you understand? I have my reservations about Venky's, too. Do I feel the need to bitch about them ad nauseum and post all kinds of wild hysteria? No, sir. I know there's bigger ###### going on in the world.

I thought I made you look like enough of a fool when I clearly demonstrated Sam DID give Hoilett more than a proper shot.

The same Hoilett who's only fulfilling his potential now the manager's starting him?

But yet you're the one still posting the same pre scripted bullshit. TWENTY SEVEN appearances last season, including twenty four in the league.

Sure, a lot of them would have been as substitute but if he'd been upto it last season, we would have seen enough in those substitute appearances (a lot of them he came on with half an hour or so to go) to then warrant a regular run in the first team. But he was mostly ineffectual - no shame for a 19 year old playing his first season at the top level - and has grown as a player and is now coming into his own.

How coincidental that Hoilett just happened to mature when Sam was sacked and the new manager gave him a run in the side? Seriously, that's uncanny! I guarantee that if Sam was still in charge now, Hoilett's ass would still be glued to the subs bench. The guy was going nowhere fast.

[rebelmswar]

haha! Very good

No he isn't.... i think like all jobs - you need to find your feet after a settling in period! I really think he has settled in now and he is growing into the position. Everyone needs to start somewhere.

I hope you are right.

Something about him leaves a bad taste in my mouth though. No amount of HP can cover it up.

The HUGE premotion etc.

I wont be Kean bashing but I may gripe a little.

[thenodrog]

He's not been given a chance by most on here, hung out to dry after only a couple of months in the jobs, sad really.

Sad? I didn't give Ince a chance from before he came and I was quite right not to. That definitely wasn't sad. Others like you never gave Allardyce a chance and were wrong. Now that was definitely sad! As for Kean, he's been pushed forward by Anderson and given a chance not by us but by the Venkey mob. Lets hope that doesn't end up sad eh?

[BRFC1995]

the arsenal game is'nt a great positive for kean the tactics afterall were forced on him being away at arsenal just defend for our lives, that aside our form for 3 months is abysmal and its the games we expect something from that he fails horrendously in. How kean sets out to play against brum were the tactics are'nt simply park the bus and defend at all costs is a better indicator i mean di matteo beat arsenal at arsenal and is out of work right now.

i always expect the opposition to score 2 in the games we fans see as easy with kean in charge, and we are too crap to score 3 regularly.

[Majiball]

Read back what you've just written and then tell me you weren't attempting to belittle me. "Hypocrite" springs to mind. Can't take a little banter? Then you shouldn't be on here...Man up and grow a pair!

Banter indeed.

I funny it amusing you call me a hypocrite and yet you jump saying all I do is beat Kean with a stick and yet you respond in a manner akin to that which you accuse me of. Buying a mirror may aid you in life before you go throwing stones.

Ottoman if you want to discuss what I've said on kean, please do so as I have asked previously. If you just want to call me more names then fine but you'll get no reply this time as it's obviously what gets you off.

[LeChuck]

I really think he has settled in now and he is growing into the position.

Really?

Our recent record is Lose - Draw - Lose - Lose - Draw - Draw

On what basis has he settled into the job?!

[den]

I stopped there.

I think it stands to reason that if our team adopted a Plan B (especially for away games) we would accumulate more points and therefore finish higher up on the table. My real gripe is the argument that a club of our size can only compete by playing the lowest, primitive style of football.

Our point against Arsenal wasn't hoofball. Was it the football masterclass Venky's are wanting? Nope. But it certainly wasn't hoofball.

What part of "People have every right to voice their concerns about the club" didn't you understand? I have my reservations about Venky's, too. Do I feel the need to bitch about them ad nauseum and post all kinds of wild hysteria? No, sir. I know there's bigger ###### going on in the world.

The same Hoilett who's only fulfilling his potential now the manager's starting him?

How coincidental that Hoilett just happened to mature when Sam was sacked and the new manager gave him a run in the side? Seriously, that's uncanny! I guarantee that if Sam was still in charge now, Hoilett's ass would still be glued to the subs bench. The guy was going nowhere fast.

Just you wait 'til TGM gets here. He'll murder that post.

[LeChuck]

How coincidental that Hoilett just happened to mature when Sam was sacked and the new manager gave him a run in the side? Seriously, that's uncanny! I guarantee that if Sam was still in charge now, Hoilett's ass would still be glued to the subs bench. The guy was going nowhere fast.

You're right.

On the other hand, I guarantee that if Ssam was still in charge now, we wouldn't be in a relegation fight.

I know which I'd prefer.

[tony gale's mic]

I stopped there.

I think it stands to reason that if our team adopted a Plan B (especially for away games) we would accumulate more points and therefore finish higher up on the table. My real gripe is the argument that a club of our size can only compete by playing the lowest, primitive style of football.

Our point against Arsenal wasn't hoofball. Was it the football masterclass Venky's are wanting? Nope. But it certainly wasn't hoofball.

The same Hoilett who's only fulfilling his potential now the manager's starting him?

How coincidental that Hoilett just happened to mature when Sam was sacked and the new manager gave him a run in the side? Seriously, that's uncanny! I guarantee that if Sam was still in charge now, Hoilett's ass would still be glued to the subs bench. The guy was going nowhere fast.

And still you carry on your rubbish about Hoilett's "ass being glued to the subs bench". The fact he featured in most of our games last season indicate this was anything but the case. You're basically now using lies to support your flimsy case against the last manager.

How many times do you see a teenager who's never played at this level getting instant starting roles in their first season? They all start with substitute appearances pretty much, and if they show enough in those then they progress to a regular first team slot. Even Wayne Rooney scored that wonder goal against Arsenal as a substitute, then he started making regular starting appearances. Hoilett didn't show much apart from raw pace when he played, and considering he was brought often brought on with 20-30 minutes left when legs were tired, it would have been the perfect time for him to make more of an impact.

He's doing well now, but that's mainly down to the fact he's gained more experience in this league, he's learned a lot and is clearly a better player than this time last year when he wasn't ready for a regular starting place. He wasn't going nowhere fast - he was a 19 year old winger of pretty small build finding his feet in arguably the worlds' most physical major footballing league.

And big deal about our point against Arsenal. If you try to play a more expansive style with limited players, occasionally it will work. But more often than not it won't. One off results are more than possible, but Sam quite rightly traded in results over the course of a season. And "hoofball" is such a ridiculous, emotive term anyway.

What part of "People have every right to voice their concerns about the club" didn't you understand? I have my reservations about Venky's, too. Do I feel the need to bitch about them ad nauseum and post all kinds of wild hysteria? No, sir. I know there's bigger ###### going on in the world.

I've quoted this seperately since it's so mindless it makes my head spin.

This is a Blackburn Rovers forum. People care deeply about the way this club is going, and the changes that have gone on at our club. Are the Japanese nuclear crisis, the war in Libya and the recent bombing in Ireland a bigger deal? Of course, but people aren't going to discuss them here are they?

[tony gale's mic]

I thought I made you look like enough of a fool when I clearly demonstrated Sam DID give Hoilett more than a proper shot. But yet you're the one still posting the same pre scripted bullshit.

What a charming response and IMHO indicative of why this messageboard is going downhill.

For what it's worth would I choose Sam as manager for a club with no resources - absolutely 100% resounding yes. Would I choose Kean as his replacement - absolutely 100% resounding no. Would I choose Sam for a club with money to spend? Probably not. Would I choose Kean - 100% resounding no.

That all said, we appear to be stuck with him so I would be DELIGHTED if he does well

I posted a fairly lengthy response with a couple of paragraphs of solid footballing argument, and yet you choose to pick out one sentence of it as evidence as to why this forum is going downhill.

Pipe down and stop whining. This forum is the same as it always was, but the state of the club has changed hugely.

[sentient]

Having a good relationship with your manager is great, but not essential. More important is that the players have respect for the managers capabilities, but there must also be an element of fear.

You can't get by, simply by running a club of contented players.

Think that's almost right Den but not quite. When players like or dislike the manager its all a bit too "close" in one way or another and a much better scenario is when they respect the manager. Now maybe fear was a way of gaining the players respect 20years ago but in an age when players have £m+ a year contracts what have they to be afraid of? No the way to earn lasting respect is to show the players that you actually know what you are doing and I also to maintain a certain aloofness - and this works best with a complementary no2. Cloughie and Taylor were the absolute best.

A few years back my young lad was mascot away at boro when Hughes was manager and Bellamy was playing. We got treated like royalty by the boro people (top credit to them, sent me brilliant photos the following week even though we won 2-0!) and we got taken to the rovers dressing room where all the boys were having a laugh. Toogs was playing head tennis with someone (forgets who, just awesome watching them) and Sav was scrubbing his nuts in a raise tin bath with the physio giving his thigh a massage(bit surreal) and all the players seemed so relaxed and together it was unbelievable (just knew we would win that day). Anyway I digress - what I wanted to say was that Hughes was nowhere to be seen. A bit later my son got whisked away for some piccies on the pitch (still well before ko so no-one around) and I wandered down to the end of the tunnel. Mark Hughes was leant against the tunnel end alone seemingly not doing much (obviously mulling over tactics!). I tried to untie my tongue and engage in conversation asking if Bellars was playing ("probably") cos he makes such a difference ("yes"). It wasn't the most stimulating conversation I've ever had but I was happy. The thing is that MH was doing his thinking and planning - he knew that he didn't need to be with the players joking on and being their best friend (maybe its not even in his nature to be sociable like that) because he had Mark and Eddie in the dressing room and a group of players that actually got on well together (and it seemed to me that they defo did). It also helps when you can say you have won all sorts of medals played for ManU Bayern Munich and Barcelona (not bad eh?) IMO MH is possibly the best manager we have had in the premier league era, and I include KK in that. Should never have let him go.

If Steve Kean can come through the debacle of the last few months with the RESPECT of the players and our premier league status intact then he will have my respect in return. I desperately hope that he can do it but it is one tough ask. As for the owners, they will get my respect when they have us through NEXT season still in the prem and ruffling some feathers (boom!! boom!!)

[tony gale's mic]

I'll take the opportunity if i may?

You make some very valid points about the number of apperances Hoilett made last year. But, as you also state, many were substitue appearances, often little more than 5 or 10 minutes. Extremely difficult to impose yourself on a game in that time frame.

Also, there has been a noticable shift in style of play. Our wider players seem to be receiving balls to their feet more frequently nowadays. This suits the likes of Hoilett because be has a low center of gravity and is able to shift the ball one way or the other as the situation dictates. Unfortunately, young Jnr was never likely to flourish when being asked to utilise that pace chasing balls over the top. He simply isn't strong enough to out muscle most fullbacks. Its far easier to defend against balls over the top as its simply getting the line right. Drop a little deeper and you can essentially nulify the threat.

I don't want to speak for Topman as i'm sure he is more than capable of replying himself. But i read his comments to mean under Sam we didn't use what little pace we actually had to good effect. Be it Hoilett or Olsson.

I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments regarding the price of pace and the price of strength in the tackle or athleticism. Players who are quick and possess the required skill set to use it properly, cost significantly more. Its a no brainer. I think Sam should be appluaded for the way he played to his strengths. Both in terms of what he had in the squad, and what his transfer budgets would allow. I've said many times, there is no shame in that. But, if we are likely to have more in terms of transfer budgets now, then a pacey style is no bad thing to implement. Redknapp's football philosophy is largely based around this concept and he's done OK.

If you strip away the arguments over who is and isn't an Allardyce hater, then i think most sound minded people would agree that Kean has been too quick in trying to implement wholesale changes. I'm all for a move away from hoofball (as successful as it was). A more attractive brand of football can be effective. Look no further than Coyle down the road. But all too often we have been a little too gung ho. The Liverpool match was an excellent balance for me. But in truth, i think most people agree that a more subtle change over a 12 month period would have been a safer bet.

There may well be some truth in what you've said about Hoilett recieving the ball into feet. But then the manager should clearly do what suits the vast majority of his playing staff rather than just one or two, and it's clear that Sam was far better at doing that. And as far as I recall Hoilett got plenty of appearances for more than 10 minutes - last 20-30 minutes or so on numerous occasions - perfect when you have pace against players who are tired.

At the end of the day, Sam gave Hoilett more than enough chance for a 19 year old who had never played in the top division and who showed very little in his substitute appearances, and it was no bad reflection on Hoilett that he didn't really impress very much since the league is such a steep learning curve for players like him. It's good to see he's learning his trade well and is doing well now though.

[RovertheHill]

I posted a fairly lengthy response with a couple of paragraphs of solid footballing argument, and yet you choose to pick out one sentence of it as evidence as to why this forum is going downhill.

Pipe down and stop whining. This forum is the same as it always was, but the state of the club has changed hugely.

You really are a charmer. And what an ironic statement given the source of much of the whining on here

[tony gale's mic]

You really are a charmer. And what an ironic statement given the source of much of the whining on here

If you could point me to all of the posts where I've been whining (except for the usual after lost games, bad news etc) you're more than welcome. The search posts facility is your friend...

[imy9]

Hoilett progressing is down to Kean having faith in his ability and allowing him to express himself on the pitch, cant do that if you are always chasing the ball.

Hoilett has started 13 games (so far) this season in comparison to 8 games last year. 10 of the 13 starts have been under Kean THIS season, who has clearly shown more faith in the Hoilett and he has shone, due partly to receiving the ball at his feet rather than chasing the long ball.

[tony gale's mic]

Hoilett progressing is down to Kean having faith in his ability and allowing him to express himself on the pitch, cant do that if you are always chasing the ball.

Hoilett has started 13 games (so far) this season in comparison to 8 games last year. 10 of the 13 starts have been under Kean THIS season, who has clearly shown more faith in the Hoilett and he has shone, due partly to receiving the ball at his feet rather than chasing the long ball.

It stands to reason that a player who was 19 years old last season and who had never played at the top level would start more games and be a better player in his second season than his first. That's just natural player development.

I can see some logic behind the thinking that Kean's style might be more beneficial to Hoilett, but if it's detrimental to the rest of the team as it appears to be it's hardly to Kean's credit anyway.

[cruz]

Why the players might like Steve Kean according to Shaun Custis…..

"The unsackable Steve Kean, who was appointed shall we say in questionable circumstances, is not doing it. I understand he indulges the players to try and get them on side and the players tend to do what they want. What they're not doing is winning football matches.”

One of Sam's best buddies, and one of THE worst sports journalists, remains impartial

[rebelmswar]

One of Sam's best buddies, and one of THE worst sports journalists, remains impartial

Where oh where is Bungle when you need him?

Probably with Jeffrey playing with their twangers.

[47er]

Everyone needs to start somewhere.

Agree with that, just not here, not now.

As for guiding us through troubled times, we weren't actually having any till Kean took over.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Agree with that, just not here, not now.

As for guiding us through troubled times, we weren't actually having any till Kean took over.

Cant disagree with that. The guy has been over promoted and is consequently on the steepest of learning curves. Mistakes are inevitable. As you say this isn't the time or place for that.

The bloke clearly needs support. Those who cant support should, imo, hold their tongues for the short term sake of the club.

[tony gale's mic]

Cant disagree with that. The guy has been over promoted and is consequently on the steepest of learning curves. Mistakes are inevitable. As you say this isn't the time or place for that.

The bloke clearly needs support. Those who cant support should, imo, hold their tongues for the short term sake of the club.

Yeah, I agree. If we lose to Birmingham this weekend, we should only post messages of support towards the manager.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Yeah, I agree. If we lose to Birmingham this weekend, we should only post messages of support towards the manager.

Suit yourself, it was just a suggestion.

If we win you'll have to find another way of venting your considerable anger lest your head explodes.

[tony gale's mic]

Suit yourself, it was just a suggestion.

If we win you'll have to find another way of venting your considerable anger lest your head explodes.

There's not much anger DGS. Just dismay, mostly at our situation but also at the stupidity of some of the posts on here.

If we win, a lot of this will be lifted. Not sure if it will do much for the second thing though...