[Archived] Steve Kean

[thenodrog]

No, I work at one of the best schools in Blackburn where standards are high and which Ofsted say is good with outstanding features. A more co-operative stle of management works well in most businesses. There still has to be a boss who has the final say and carries the can if anything goes wrong, but getting more people on board, provided they don't become a clique or actually think they run the place, can't be a bad idea. Surely asking Dunn, who cares about our club because it's his club too, and Nelsen, who has been here a while and has no loyalties to any other club but Rovers must be beneficial. Better that than open warfare between players and management which was the scenario many presented on here earlier in the season. It's not bribery - it's using your resources sensibly. We don't have a large coaching staff, so why not use what we do have. Why does football have to stay in the age of the dinosaurs while the rest of the world moves on. I bet you all feel more valued by your employer if your views on certain subjects are listened to, and if the ideas are good, put ito practice.

Of my goodness. Anybody know SAF's email address? I'd bloody love to hear his opinion on this load of nonsense.

[gumboots]

Of my goodness. Anybody know SAF's email address? I'd bloody love to hear his opinion on this load of nonsense.

He's the last of a dying breed though Gordon. He's been there done it and keeps on doing it so top players will listen to him. Increasingly the power is with the players so it makes it good sense to get and keep them on board. what's wrong with talking to your work force? You don't have to do what they say, but including them gives them a sense of identity with what happens to the business. At this stage it's about what will give you an edge over the other teams down there. We don't have te manager who of himself inspires the troops so we have to try something different. If the comeback against Blackpool and the draw with Arsenal are the result of senior players taking more on themselves because they feel they have a greater stake in the club,then why not? Of course I do know that anything that goes contrary to your view of the world is always nonsense, in your view, so I don't expect to convince you, but that's the way I see it.

[thenodrog]

The idiots seem to come up with something new on a daily basis to beat the manager with

I think I wrote similar in November!

Gav... Please do us all a favour and do a Bucky will ya?

[blue_and_white]

I think its pretty cringeworthy personally. You're senior players are senior players and thats about it, sure there's nothing wrong with them spontaneously giving a dressing room speech (a la Samba) or being leaders on the pitch, but they aren't part of the management/coaching staff and shouldn't be included as such. Joey Barton recently had a go at Gareth Barry for gaining preferential treatment by sucking up to managers, I can only imagine how well it'd go down with the rest of the squad to have 4 class swots who go and talk about them to the manager every week on some ridiculous committee.

Having said that I know nothing about management and maybe its some revolutionary method Kean has invented and in a few years everyone will be doing it. Wouldn't imagine thats likely though!

[Majiball]

I take no issue with Kean sitting down with his senior players to discuss what's going on and things they can change as long as it's managed correctly. I do find the wife remark amusing as I've heard that sort of thing before, with some players being unhappy about afternoon sessions because it made picking the kids up difficult for them. As the missus has just said for 30K a week she wouldn't care if I worked 20 hours a day 6 days a week, she'd find a way to cope and it wouldn't be hard with that kinda cash.

I wonder if Rovers use time of day to organise their strength training as optimal performance is related to the time you train at? given most of our matches are about 3pm that would mean afternoon sessions at least twice a week.

[gumboots]

I think I wrote similar in November!

Gav... Please do us all a favour and do a Bucky will ya?

Different times. It's the same in most jobs now. When I was at school pupils would have had no say in appointing staff. Now every school has a pupils' panel who conduct interviews and say who they would appoint and theri views are heard.

That, Gordon, is not opinion but fact, and if you ask anyone who has been interviewed by the pupils they say that is the bit that they found most scary. they ask the questions the formal panel find hard to ask or aren't allowed to. Kids, it might surprise you to know, are very good at picking out the phoneys and those who simply will not fit in their school and they don't get good feedback. The kids don't pick the staff any more than I think our players are picking the team, but their views are listened to and taken into account in the final decision.

[RovertheHill]

Can someone please keep a list of the Kean Sympathisers and look out for their reactions if we get stuffed today. The 'last game only' viewpoint on here never ceases to amaze me.

Surely you can't be suggesting that if you don't use this particular stick to beat the manager then you are a Kean Sympathiser? Sounds a bit too McCarthyite for my liking.

Time to be pulling together I think

[thenodrog]

He's the last of a dying breed though Gordon. He's been there done it and keeps on doing it so top players will listen to him. Increasingly the power is with the players so it makes it good sense to get and keep them on board. what's wrong with talking to your work force? You don't have to do what they say, but including them gives them a sense of identity with what happens to the business. At this stage it's about what will give you an edge over the other teams down there. We don't have te manager who of himself inspires the troops so we have to try something different. If the comeback against Blackpool and the draw with Arsenal are the result of senior players taking more on themselves because they feel they have a greater stake in the club,then why not? Of course I do know that anything that goes contrary to your view of the world is always nonsense, in your view, so I don't expect to convince you, but that's the way I see it.

You don't get it do you gumboots? No disrespect but it's mans stuff. It's complicated psychology and you won't comprehend the nuances at work. This will promote a division in the squad sooner or later. Those 4 have now become virtually undroppable (when Dunny's hamstring will allow ) So how do you think that will make the likes of Salgado, Emerton, MGP feel? Rem two of those have been at the club longer than the elite 'committee' members. imo the first emotion will be that of resent. Animal Farm, Lord of the Flies scenario, it's all in there. Did we see a hint of this last week when Salgado was warring with Samba for carelessly losing his man in the closing minutes?

[JMillZz]

Explains why Roberts is always at least on the bench or coming on ahead of Niko. He sucks up and is in the clique. I think this is looking pretty unhealthy and our team could be suffering with our line ups being based on who is the manager's/clique's favourites.

[thenodrog]

Different times. It's the same in most jobs now. When I was at school pupils would have had no say in appointing staff. Now every school has a pupils' panel who conduct interviews and say who they would appoint and theri views are heard.

That, Gordon, is not opinion but fact, and if you ask anyone who has been interviewed by the pupils they say that is the bit that they found most scary. they ask the questions the formal panel find hard to ask or aren't allowed to. Kids, it might surprise you to know, are very good at picking out the phoneys and those who simply will not fit in their school and they don't get good feedback. The kids don't pick the staff any more than I think our players are picking the team, but their views are listened to and taken into account in the final decision.

OK have it your way gumboots...... mighty odd though that the armed forces haven't sought to emulate it.

Just as an aside why do we bother employing people within Education Depts at huge costs when as you say kids are best at sussing out the best teachers? Seems a good place to start with any cuts wouldn't you say?

[gumboots]

The Steve Kean joke continues.

This would be comparable to me going into a tough classroom and selecting four popular Year 11 boys to run the class for me, how many other managers at this level have little consortiums set up?

Can someone please keep a list of the Kean Sympathisers and look out for their reactions if we get stuffed today. The 'last game only' viewpoint on here never ceases to amaze me.

That being said, of course today I need to put my personal feelings to one side and cross everything I have and hope for a win.

I can't shake the feeling that if the Rao brothers but themselves in charge of the team, some of you would give them six months.

That is how most classrooms are run. You rely on the decent kids to stay on board and help to create the right atmosphere. You can also get the bad kids on board and then it's even better. You don't have to pander to every whim, just listen to what they are saying. Most of the time it's French is rubbish but then you find out why and you can often make things better with a slight alteration to how you teach or how you manage disruption. I suspect this is all the manager is doing. If they are having input into team selection or any of the real issues that the manager should be dealing with then I can understand why people aren't happy, but if they are just inputting opinions and telling him how they feel and what the mood is around the place when he is not present, then I don't get why it's such a big deal for us. I read it as he's trying to get as many on board as possible because that's the way to get success. at this stage I don't care if he asks the tea lady for input if it helps put points on the board.

[Majiball]

Different times. It's the same in most jobs now. When I was at school pupils would have had no say in appointing staff. Now every school has a pupils' panel who conduct interviews and say who they would appoint and theri views are heard.

That, Gordon, is not opinion but fact, and if you ask anyone who has been interviewed by the pupils they say that is the bit that they found most scary. they ask the questions the formal panel find hard to ask or aren't allowed to. Kids, it might surprise you to know, are very good at picking out the phoneys and those who simply will not fit in their school and they don't get good feedback. The kids don't pick the staff any more than I think our players are picking the team, but their views are listened to and taken into account in the final decision.

Fact it maybe but that doesn't mean it's a good thing, bit like parents choosing headmasters and the such these days. My mums a head and a number of my friends teach and they all

Can I ask why you are using kids to ask questions that your not allowed too? Doesn't sound very ethical to me, if you can't ask them, then surely there is a reason for that? Just curious.

[thenodrog]

Explains why Roberts is always at least on the bench or coming on ahead of Niko. He sucks up and is in the clique. I think this is looking pretty unhealthy and our team could be suffering with our line ups being based on who is the manager's/clique's favourites.

Difficult to argue with that.

[Roversider]

The Steve Kean joke continues.

This would be comparable to me going into a tough classroom and selecting four popular Year 11 boys to run the class for me, how many other managers at this level have little consortiums set up?

Can someone please keep a list of the Kean Sympathisers and look out for their reactions if we get stuffed today. The 'last game only' viewpoint on here never ceases to amaze me.

That being said, of course today I need to put my personal feelings to one side and cross everything I have and hope for a win.

I can't shake the feeling that if the Rao brothers but themselves in charge of the team, some of you would give them six months.

Just an observation, to compare the consultation with senior players to schoolkids is both insulting and lacking in intelligence. In business it is not unusual to include your key staff when discussing the operation of the business.

I guess because I don't share your views makes me a 'Kean sympathiser', I'm afraid that putting qualifying statements of 'put my personal feelings to one side' is a bit irrelevant given your consistent stance.

I don't have an issue with your views but it is a bit disconcerting to see the acidic comments posted against anyone who is willing to give Kean a chance, whether you endorse him in the end or not.

There is a chance you may be wrong you know.

[Stuart]

Well played Theno. It was 4-0. How about you?

[thenodrog]

That is how most classrooms are run. You rely on the decent kids to stay on board and help to create the right atmosphere. You can also get the bad kids on board and then it's even better. You don't have to pander to every whim, just listen to what they are saying. Most of the time it's French is rubbish but then you find out why and you can often make things better with a slight alteration to how you teach or how you manage disruption. I suspect this is all the manager is doing. If they are having input into team selection or any of the real issues that the manager should be dealing with then I can understand why people aren't happy, but if they are just inputting opinions and telling him how they feel and what the mood is around the place when he is not present, then I don't get why it's such a big deal for us. I read it as he's trying to get as many on board as possible because that's the way to get success. at this stage I don't care if he asks the tea lady for input if it helps put points on the board.

Q for you. We get relegated so as is normal we have to sack the manager. Do we then have to sack those 4 as well?

[gumboots]

OK have it your way gumboots...... mighty odd though that the armed forces haven't sought to emulate it.

Just as an aside why do we bother employing people within Education Depts at huge costs when as you say kids are best at sussing out the best teachers? Seems a good place to start with any cuts wouldn't you say?

Decisions ar not taken by kids - they are taken by the management and governors. However, they listen - I think that's all Kean is doing. There is nothing wrong with listening. Perhaps you should try it some time. And as for it being a man's thing, whoever said that - perhaps men shoud grow up a bit then Why is it that whenever anyone has an opinion that isn't in line with what some of you think, it's suddenly down to "Football is a man's game"? They aren't doing so well at running it that they couldn't learn from others. Stop playing the gender card - it's old hat.

[thenodrog]

Well played Theno. It was 4-0. How about you?

I tried not to think too much about it all that week Jisty.

[gumboots]

Fact it maybe but that doesn't mean it's a good thing, bit like parents choosing headmasters and the such these days. My mums a head and a number of my friends teach and they all

Can I ask why you are using kids to ask questions that your not allowed too? Doesn't sound very ethical to me, if you can't ask them, then surely there is a reason for that? Just curious.

We don't use them to ask them. there are clear guidelines about what subjects they are allowed to touch on, such as they aren't allowed to ask female staff if they plan to become pregnant or anythng like that which might be discriminatory. Perhaps I should have said they ask questions in a more forthright manner than most of the actual interview panel do and they like to get real clarification from interviewees about anything they don't understand. as their vocabulary is naturally more limited than that of most of the panel they often push harder for clarification, so you really have to justify anything you say and be prepared to go into detail.

[yeti-dog]

The Steve Kean joke continues.

This would be comparable to me going into a tough classroom and selecting four popular Year 11 boys to run the class for me, how many other managers at this level have little consortiums set up?

Can someone please keep a list of the Kean Sympathisers and look out for their reactions if we get stuffed today. The 'last game only' viewpoint on here never ceases to amaze me.

That being said, of course today I need to put my personal feelings to one side and cross everything I have and hope for a win.

I can't shake the feeling that if the Rao brothers but themselves in charge of the team, some of you would give them six months.

Surely you can't be suggesting that if you don't use this particular stick to beat the manager then you are a Kean Sympathiser? Sounds a bit too McCarthyite for my liking.

Time to be pulling together I think

I'm 100% with you RovertheHill...never mind McCarthyism it smacks of Stalinism..what you going to do BPF..send us off to Suberia if we lose.

Your arrogance is astounding..you've got form yourself if memory serves..weren't you,for a long time,banging the drum for WGA?

I don't need to answer to you for what I believe and btw,just because I'm not in your camp doesn't mean I'm necessarily a fawning acolyte of Venky's and Steve Kean..it's not always black and white,there are shades in between.

[thenodrog]

Decisions ar not taken by kids - they are taken by the management and governors. However, they listen - I think that's all Kean is doing. There is nothing wrong with listening. Perhaps you should try it some time. And as for it being a man's thing, whoever said that - perhaps men shoud grow up a bit then Why is it that whenever anyone has an opinion that isn't in line with what some of you think, it's suddenly down to "Football is a man's game"? They aren't doing so well at running it that they couldn't learn from others. Stop playing the gender card - it's old hat.

Male and female psychology is different gumboots. All your right-on-ya, modern day, feministy liberal thinking will not alter the hand that evolution has dealt us no matter how hard you try. So do us men try to understand all your little nuances? Do we hell.... Although most will pretend to.

You are a teacher right? Do you teach at primary level? If so watch the behavioural patterns between boys and girls in the infants playground. It's all laid bare there before society has conditioned us to cover up our instincts and impulses. Mars and Venus. Accept it.

[gumboots]

Q for you. We get relegated so as is normal we have to sack the manager. Do we then have to sack those 4 as well?

Well, according to most, 2 at least would be off for fresh fields and pastures new anyway so it wouldn't really be a consideration, but no, of course not. the buck stops as it always has with the manager because of course the decisions made have to be his, just as in any business. However, listening to senior players is not per se a bad idea. I think those who want a stick to bash Kean with are reading this as he has abdicated any responsibility for the team and what happens. I don't happen to read it like that. i read it as he's trying whatever might just work to get us results and if he can get 1% more effort and togetherness out of a team by talking to players and getting their ideas and input then I don't see why he shouldn't.

[yeti-dog]

Q for you. We get relegated so as is normal we have to sack the manager. Do we then have to sack those 4 as well?

No.The manager is ultimately going to cop for it being ultimately responsible as you well know.As if the club would sack 4 financial assets.

You just like spreading mayhem around like horse manure. Boring.

Male and female psychology is different gumboots. All your right-on-ya, modern day, feministy liberal thinking will not alter the hand that evolution has dealt us no matter how hard you try. So do us men try to understand all your little nuances? Do we hell.... Although most will pretend to.

You are a teacher right? Do you teach at primary level? If so watch the behavioural patterns between boys and girls in the infants playground. It's all laid bare there before society has conditioned us to cover up our instincts and impulses. Mars and Venus. Accept it.

You really are a miserable old dinosaur...

[deryck guyler's spoon]

[

Just as an aside...... I wonder if Alan Nixon is treating his colleague at Mirror HQ with the contempt that he reserves for people on here whose opinions differ from what I believe is his scripted viewpoint?

Wow. Just wow.

You actually really dont have any self awareness whatsoever do you?

Kinell.

[gumboots]

Male and female psychology is different gumboots. All your right-on-ya, modern day, feministy liberal thinking will not alter the hand that evolution has dealt us no matter how hard you try. So do us men try to understand all your little nuances? Do we hell.... Although most will pretend to.

You are a teacher right? Do you teach at primary level? If so watch the behavioural patterns between boys and girls in the infants playground. It's all laid bare there before society has conditioned us to cover up our instincts and impulses. Mars and Venus. Accept it.

No. I teach secondary shool kids and just because things have been so for a long time doesn't mean they have to stay so or that we can't learn from one another. I don't go all feminine tears footstamping etc to get my way and am always shocked by men who let their wives and girlfriends dictate what they do just as I am horrified by the helpless female acts that some women put on to get what they want. I'm a person first, and female second. My dad always taught me to treat evryone as a person first and then look at the colour of their skin, religious beliefs, gender etc as unimportant addons. Enlightened yes, namby pamby no. He came from a hard background in SouthBank on Teesside with one of the first world war heroes unable to find work in the depression for a dad. He expected things to run right in his house but that wasn't to say we couldn't put forward what we thought and expect to be listened to. But enough of this. You are a died in the wool old school character who can't see good in anything that isn't compatible with your view of the world (or at least that's the image you project on here, although I do wonder if there's an element of the wizard of oz about you) and I prefer to at least try to see the other side of the story, so no point in our cluttering up the topic with our argument.