[Archived] Steve Kean

[cruz]

BUT would you call 5 pionts above relegation 'secure'?

[modes98]

Midtable security? When Sam was bootde out we were FIVE points off the drop zone, hardly secure FFS!

Just like your doing there then

Game before he got the boot we were 8th, game after 13th. I would say that they are pretty midtable. It was also quite early in the season so 5 points is a decent gap, definately better than 2 points (probably 1 as brum have 2 games in hand) after 29 games.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Midtable security? When Sam was bootde out we were FIVE points off the drop zone, hardly secure FFS!

Amazing how history can be re-written just because people are getting hysterical.

Kean maybe making a right dogs dinner of things but remembering Sam as some kind of tactical genius is pretty silly. If memory serves me he was as abject as Kean at getting away results and keeping clean sheets.

Where do the restrospective Big Sam fantasies end? Will people one day remember him lifting the treble whilst at Ewood?

Why don't we all just stick to the facts. We finished 10th last year. Agreed? We have waxed 5 million on new players in January. Agreed? Lost 4 of the last 5. 1 point from 15. 12 goals conceded in the last 5 matches. 2 points above 3rd bottom. 9 of the 11 games played against teams below us. Manager is new to the position. Thinsg are not going to plan. Agreed?

Make of it what you will, but it is good we agree.

[92er]

Why don't we all just stick to the facts. We finished 10th last year. Agreed? We have waxed 5 million on new players in January. Agreed? (PLUS PAYING OUT £150,000 IN WAGES PER WEEK FOR THE OTHER 2 PLAYERS BROUGHT IN ) Lost 4 of the last 5. 1 point from 15. 12 goals conceded in the last 5 matches. 2 points above 3rd bottom. 9 of the 11 games played against teams below us. Manager is new to the position. Thinsg are not going to plan. Agreed?

Make of it what you will, but it is good we agree.

[Mattyblue]

Apart from the top 5, no club is actually 'secure' in December, as nowhere near enough points have been gained.

However, you can feel comfortable because you have faith in the management, playing staff, tactics and running of the club .

Not sure how you are not getting it cruz...

[Jimmy612]

BUT would you call 5 pionts above relegation 'secure'?

At the time I would say we were pretty secure. How many points were we off 7th or 8th? In December of a season, if you are 5 points clear of relegation it's a decent position to be in.

Allardyce was very good at getting 40 points on the board and then allowing the team to express themselves abit more as we saw last season when we got some good results and saw some decent football towards the end of the season.

Main priority of any team threatened by relegation is to get the results against teams below and around you. We were very good at that.

As Mattyblue said I felt secure because I trusted the management, and the Chairman. You cannot argue with his track record. He did a brilliant job at Bolton and Blackburn, and wasn't given a chance at Newcastle.

I never said Allardyce was a tactial genius, and I admit that the football wasn't always 'attractive' but when you have a Premier League quality manager who works on a shoestring budget and gets you 10th in the league, what possible explanation is there to sack him?

[John]

Little point doing a direct comparison between Sam and Kean - whether you like them personally or not, Sam has a proven track record, Kean doesn't.

In relation to our current manager, aside from the most important factor (RESULTS!), it makes sense to look at what he has done so far and also evaluate the key elements which usually make a decent manager (e.g. leadership qualities, man management, transfer dealings, having good support/coaching staff to help make the team organised/disciplined etc).

Fair enough Kean has not been in the job for long, however it has been a pretty shocking start. Certainly in the direction we are currently heading, it is relegation and the Championship which will likely bring with it serious financial implications which we may struggle to ever recover from.

[Jimmy612]

I think you’ve more posts on this thread than me, I’m hardly arguing until I’m blue in the face.

Who said anything about this thread? You've hated Allardyce (unjustly) since he walked through the door, even though he did a terrific job.

I'm interested to know what your stance would be on the standard of football if you were a fan of teams such as Stoke, Wolves or Birmingham?

[thenodrog]

Ince had to go after the Wigan game away, simple as that really, a bit like Allardyce had to go after United away, which was just as much of a shambles.

Kean hasn't got to that point yet, so will be backed until he does.

Wrong and complete rubbish. Don't try to re-write history GAV. We were comfortable and mid table when MU stuffed us, but remember we'd beaten Villa the week before and got another 3 points off Wolves the week after. On top of that we were victims to a late sucker punch at Bolton when we should have had at least one point and more deservedly 3. Compare when Ince left we'd just broken our record of 13 (?) matches without a win, were at the bottom, spiritlessand leaderless and just about everybody's tip for relegation.

As for Ince, you will recall that I'd written that buggger off before he even started! I was of course proven right as I have been with Kean. Come to think about it anybody who took three months like you to decide that he was a dud should not have the temerity to even post on this thread yet.

[rebelmswar]

Wrong and complete rubbish. Don't try to re-write history GAV. We were comfortable and mid table when MU stuffed us, but remember we'd beaten Villa the week before and got another 3 points off Wolves the week after. On top of that we were victims to a late sucker punch at Bolton when we should have had at least one point and more deservedly 3. Compare when Ince left we'd just broken our record of 13 (?) matches without a win, were at the bottom, spiritlessand leaderless and just about everybody's tip for relegation.

As for Ince, you will recall that I'd written that buggger off before he even started! I was of course proven right as I have been with Kean. Come to think about it anybody who took three months like you to decide that he was a dud should not have the temerity to even post on this thread yet.

*General paper waving*

[thenodrog]

Midtable security? When Sam was bootde out we were FIVE points off the drop zone, hardly secure FFS!

Amazing how history can be re-written just because people are getting hysterical.

Kean maybe making a right dogs dinner of things but remembering Sam as some kind of tactical genius is pretty silly. If memory serves me he was as abject as Kean at getting away results and keeping clean sheets.

Where do the restrospective Big Sam fantasies end? Will people one day remember him lifting the treble whilst at Ewood?

It's no wonder SA is remembered and recognised as a proper manager though when one considers life in the Prem before and after him.

As far as your first ill thought out initial comment.... 5 points above the drop zone is almost exactly mid table! Ask FFan.

I honestly don't understand where people like you and Gav are coming from. You are proven wrong time and again yet you keep coming back for more.

BUT would you call 5 pionts above relegation 'secure'?

It would be in May!

But interpreting that you meant December then with proper managers like Hughes / Allardyce most definitely but obviously no one cannot apply that judgement to the other two goons.

Just as an aside cruz which is better 5 points above the relegation places or 2? Come to think about it if tonights score at Goodison stays the same then we'll be down to 1 point above the relegation zone..... how does that stand in the cruz definition of 'safe'?

[JAL]

I'd have Graeme Souness back over plantpot Kean anytime.

[BPF]

GAV, I find your head in the sand, all is well attitude to be largely ignorant of the present situation and deliberately excluding key facts.

Having seen what I have seen and knowing what is taking place off the radar at the moment, I can confidently state that this is probably the most trouble the club have ever been in, certainly in modern times. Do I like thinking about it? No. However, people need to stop burying their heads in the sand because when the **** hits the fan, the fans need to be ready.

The thing is, we need to stay up. Every expert that I have had the pleasure to speak to holds the belief that if we are relegated, we will quickly go into administration and that leads to League 1 or worse.

Leading us through this battleground is a man with no management experience. Even Paul Ince, as terrible as he was, came into the job as a bonafide manager. I have plenty of management experience but as a teacher, I'm starting right at the bottom. If I was inexplicably made Head of Department tomorrow and a few months down the line the department was about to enter special measures, do you think the Head would say:

1. He needs more time to show what he can do

2. He clearly doesn't hold the experience to carry out the job successfully.

I fail to see why management of a football team should be viewed any differently. Just for the record, it is in my opinion that even Venkys do not hold any faith in Kean, it is just that their replacement was deemed too expensive. It's a real shame too because the two decisions that were in place would have won them some fans at last. I'm devastated that it seems as though Mrs Desai decided that our Premier League survival assurance was too expensive to risk anymore cash on. After all, we are just another expensive plaything of her brothers.

If pick up plenty of points from here till the end of the season, then great. I'll happily admit that I was wrong but wow, what a risk Venkys have taken here and all to save some cash.

[G Somerset Rover]

What two decisions were these BPF? So they're dicing with the death of our football club because they were too tight to bring in a replacement for Kean? Gets more and more infuriating when they put him there in the first place.

[Uddersfelt Blue]

I guess that they've taken the view that changing the manager at this stage would also be a risk (an expensive one at that).

That's assuming we could actually get someone suitable for the job.

If there are things going on off the radar then that is more worrying, particularly as the fans are being kept in the dark

[47er]

Whether or not Kean should have been appointed is irrelevant, he’s here now and should be backed CAPT.

In my opinion he’s not as bad as Ince, and we all know plenty on here backed Ince far more than I’m backing kean!

The point is--you were delighted when we got rid of Sam and won't face up to what the consequences have been.

[Kelbo]

I guess that they've taken the view that changing the manager at this stage would also be a risk (an expensive one at that).

That's assuming we could actually get someone suitable for the job. If there are things going on off the radar then that is more worrying, particularly as the fans are being kept in the dark

Right on the first point and secondly, yes they could!!

[47er]

Midtable security? When Sam was bootde out we were FIVE points off the drop zone, hardly secure FFS!

Amazing how history can be re-written just because people are getting hysterical.

Kean maybe making a right dogs dinner of things but remembering Sam as some kind of tactical genius is pretty silly. If memory serves me he was as abject as Kean at getting away results and keeping clean sheets.

Where do the restrospective Big Sam fantasies end? Will people one day remember him lifting the treble whilst at Ewood?

Lets not mention home form eh?

[patrickvalery]

shame the facts can't back your opinion up.

had Kean directly followed Ince instead of Allardyce, we would have gone down 2 years ago (my opinion)

Genuine question,. Did Ince have a full pre season? The memory fails me.

[imy9]

IMO you cannot compare the records of Sam and Kean as one is a respected manager who has proven himself with two PL clubs, the other is a respected coach who has it all to prove as manager. One thing is certain Kean cannot claim that he was not given funds, time or backing from the owners in comparison to Sam because he has had it and will seemingly get it.

I feel he should not be manager now but I back him 100% and hope he can turn things around.

[Billy Castell]

Anyone feel a Mr. X guessing game about this manager?

And would this person be there for the summer should we stay up?

[rebelmswar]

I guess that they've taken the view that changing the manager at this stage would also be a risk (an expensive one at that).

That's assuming we could actually get someone suitable for the job.

If there are things going on off the radar then that is more worrying, particularly as the fans are being kept in the dark

I don't think risk came into her thoughts at all.

Looking at the bookies odds on managerial options for us should show everyone whom would have been the choice to take over.

All I will saw is this - If we go down with Kean at the helm I shall never forgive him, nor her. Him mostly.

Maybe someday we will all know why.

In my opinion, of course.

[Mercer]

14 Blackburn 29 -12 32

15 Blackpool 29 -15 32

16 West Brom 29 -15 32

17 Birmingham 28 -12 31

18 West Ham 29 -13 31

19 Wolves 29 -15 29

20 Wigan 29 -23 27

Unbelievably scary when we are in freefall with a rookie manager.

At least 10 more points needed.

Away matches @ Arsenal, Everton, West Ham & Wolves will yield 1 point if we are lucky.

Can we get 9 points from home matches against Blackpool, Birmingham, Bolton, City & United - way things are, we will do well to get 6.

Horrible feeling that we are going down with 39 points at most.

Gamble or not, irrefutable evidence that Kean should have been replaced.

[Majiball]

Personally Reb I reckon Venky's make all their decisions using one of these:

[rebelmswar]

Personally Reb I reckon Venky's make all their decisions using one of these:

Perhaps it would be best if they used it, at least one of those would be free of personal agendas.