[Archived] Who takes responsibility?

[Bobby G]

For however long its been most of the supporters had wanted change. They felt that the Walkers Trust had taken us as far as they could and with no new investment forthcoming only the brilliant management of John Williams primarily, Mark Hughes & Sam Allardyce had allowed us to push above our weights for a number of years. The Trust had effectively publicly admitted that they wanted to sell but would only do so to a group that would preserve Jack Walker's legacy.

A lot of people were frustrated when Dan Williams was rejected, because a lot were blinded by the need for change/investment. Then came Syed Ahsan Ali, who has a dark cloud over his head, and a group of Australians who probably talked more than they walked, and again they were rejected. So its fair to say that the screening process filtered out a lot of potential buyers. As a Rovers fan, you'd hope that the conditions/criteria were not simply whether the buyers had the cash to buy out the Trust. At the lowest ebb, sometimes you feel that way due to the way things have turned out.

So Venkys came on and a new dawn arrived. Lots were positive, whilst some carried concerns due to the information that they had received about Venkys. Soon enough, their actions spoke volumes. Firstly, by sacking Sam Allardyce at a critical juncture of the season with a number of "winnable games" coming up & secondly by contradicting themselves with every statement from left, right & center. Venkys probably thought or were advised that changing Allardyce with these types of games coming up and with us effectively 9-10 points ahead of the relegation zone would be a good time. Whilst most supporters would have been happy replacing Allardyce under two conditions.

1) It was done in June when his contract was up

2) Replaced by a proven manager as long as that manager had SOME funds to spend

Then came the Steve Kean era, arguably started off a little tarnished in the eye of a certain percentage of supporters due to the circumstances with which Venkys dealt with the situation, especially with the alleged outside influence/role that some people outside the official quarters of the club carried. Kean was given a short-term contract, which was almost immediately turned into a longer-term one which labeled him as the "unsackable manager". John Williams left the club arguably because he was a little marginalized, and saw no active role for himself in the way the club was now being run. A number of contracts (longer term) were issued to a number of players, a number of them on the wrong side of 30. If things are to be believed it has been said in places that some clauses have been removed from those contracts which effectively turns the club into an administration magnet if we go down. From flirting with Maradona, to flirting with Ronaldinho, the club was in the headlines, not in a positive light either.

With some promising signs early on including 3 wins in the early run of matches, a lot more positive football was on display, however all with the backdrop of notable tactical deficiencies of the most basic context. The midfield was wide open to run at. Sometimes we were punished but against two teams, WBA & Liverpool, who were both in crisis and would almost immediately after sack their managers, we got away with it. Three months have now passed and we are within inches of the relegation zone with no form to speak of, and are being warmly reminded of the Paul Ince era, which most of us considered as some of the darkest days on the field for the club.

Rumors of sacking Steve Kean have come and gone, and he has been given a public vote of confidence. However, with implications of possible relegation, as well as the dire circumstances the club finds itself in, things are out of our hands. What will Venkys do next? What happens if we stay up? Where do we go from there? What if we go down? The fans deserve the right to know what is happening especially when so many rumors come up all the time. There is a saying that there is no smoke without fire. Who do we believe anymore? Can we lay trust to a group that have contradicted each other more so than anything any of us have seen during our times supporting the club?

I, personally, am mad. I am mad at the Trust for selling the club this way after all the screening, filtering, yes and no's. Is this Jack Walker's legacy? I feel that we have become a laughing stock and I shiver at the thought of what happens in the summer EVEN if we stay up.

But I've tried to block that out of my mind for the time being. The club needs our support. Forget the manager, forget the players, forget the owners. This is our club. These players will all leave one day. The manager will be gone, sooner or later, and the owners, well, that's the big question. But the name remains. The history remains. Our pride remains.

People jumped on Roman Abramovich's back when he bought Chelsea. They said he's a billionaire who has bought his next toy and will get bored soon. A decade has almost passed. He has put the money were his mouth is and has shown passion for Chelsea when so many pretenders have come on and started buying clubs and either ran them to the ground, or failed miserably. To me, he has been the model owner till date (from the new wave of owners). I am not trying to draw comparisons with our owners but am illustrating the worries that people had from the time he had come to Chelsea.

The bottom line for me is this. If you have money and someone has what you want to buy and is willing to sell it, you will buy it. The seller's number one priority will arguably be the money he is receiving. Yes, he will hold some sentimental value to what he has sold, but I dont think he would even consider to return the money and get it back even in the worst of circumstances. This is FACT. Therefore any defence of the previous owners, for me at least, will go on deaf ears, at least in terms of them being "misleaded" or anything of the sorts.

However, no one can deny that they sold a mid-table, stable run club, with manageable debts, on the way to safety and arguably a top 10 finish. That's how it was with the management structure they left in charge. This is FACT. Any arguments over how weak the squad was or wasnt, and the lack of investment in recent years are moot but not directly responsible for the plight of the club in recent months. Bottom line is the club was sold in a certain mold and in certain structure to ensure at least safety, if it was kept intact in those "settings".

However, as we all know, it wasnt, and not in a gradual process but in one go.

[PAFELL]

At times I do believe venky's did have good intentions for the club. They admitted that they did not know a lot about running a football club. They then sort advice. But sadly, and this is MY OPINION, they turned to the wrong person / group. Who has possible put this club in danger and cost it money - the latter I say because nobody does things free these days in business. So we now have the situation we have now.

If I was in Venky's position today - knowing I was badly advised, knowing that advise has cost me a lot of money. I would fight back to show those that advised me how pathetic their advice was. I would risk a bit more money and remove Kean, appoint a new manager and team to keep the club in the prem. Doing this would then save the original plan to help advertise my business in India, by my owning a premiership football club. Bringing football to the people of India.

I do not believe Venky's are bad people. They are though in many ways out of their depth and have been exploited by bad advisors. venky's took a risk, using their money buying Rovers. I do not believe their plan was to buy the club and break it up. They wanted a successful business. But bad advice and advisors has exploted them

[Bobby G]

Maybe they don't think they've been badly advised and maybe they don't think they've lost money YET.

Its all about perceptions. In business, its always difficult to admit you were wrong and it all depends on the people around you, having the balls to tell you so, and being respected by you in the first place.

[BangkokRover]

Maybe they don't think they've been badly advised and maybe they don't think they've lost money YET.

Its all about perceptions. In business, its always difficult to admit you were wrong and it all depends on the people around you, having the balls to tell you so, and being respected by you in the first place.

Surely good PR for Rovers is Good PR for Venkys. Rovers going down and getting in a financial mess is very bad PR and all fingers will be pointed at Venkeys.

I would be interested to see what happened if someone contacted the Walkers Trust for their take on the club since the acquisition by Venkys.

[bob fleming]

Who takes responsibility?

They admitted to knowing little, got rid of the people already at the club who know what it's all about in the Premier League (Williams and Allardyce) and put all their trust in an Agent and a Manager with zero managerial experience.

However they have succeeded in getting their brand name known, so it's not all bad. Oh look, there it is again. All this for £23m and the potential to claim that back (and more?) via the mortgage / Rovers assets.

[Mercer]

Who takes responsibility?

It's an absolute no brainer.

[den]

Answer to your question Bobby: The responsibility is Venky's. There was no reason for them to put us in this position. The club was stable and sound.

Whilst most supporters would have been happy replacing Allardyce under two conditions.

1) It was done in June when his contract was up

I don't understand this issue of timing. Allardyce should only have been replaced when a manager could be found, that could take us higher up the league, whenever that was. Don't know where June comes into it at all. Isn't that just an excuse for defending the sacking?

[philipl]

At this stage, I would park the blame at the door of Jerome Anderson.

Yes it was extremely naive of the brothers to have picked him and mind bogglingly incompetent of the Venky's machine to have done zero due diligence on somebody whom they probably have now written cheques of over £6m to.

But his advice was unremittingly bad on any basis you care to mention bar number one. The Venky's really did not deserve to be so appallingly badly served by someone whom they trusted so much

Now we actually need Mrs Desai to start taking responsibility for Blackburn Rovers and stop treating it like just another of her brothers' expensive amusements.

A lot of our problems stem from Mrs Desai simply not taking this project seriously or responsibly and certainly she is not treating it with the intellectual or business rigour she clearly brings to her other business ventures.

Premier League football is actually a significant step up in complexity and size of business challenge compared with anything she has dealt with so far. Until she realises this and starts treating Premier League as the complex sophisticated global enterprise it is, we will continue to be imperilled.

[47er]

At this stage, I would park the blame at the door of Jerome Anderson.

You're responsible for me snorting into my cup of tea, Philip! Possibly the most predictable post in the history of, well--posts!

Surely the owners chose him just as they chose Kean (either directly or indirectly). The club is theirs, the risk is theirs, the decisions are theirs and theirs alone.

If we somehow escape from our current plight and stay in the Premiership, I hope they wise up very quickly. I don't think Rovers fans could stand another season like this one.

[S15]

I'd still place the blame on Venky's though Phil. When a football agent approached them did they not revise what a football agent does? Did they not confine in as many people as they could do find out the true role of an agent, at what they set out to achieve for themselves? Did they not get some character references on the man himself?

Venky's still have time to save this ship, but they deserve every criticism aimed at them for driving us into the iceberg.

[Majiball]

No research is going to reap the type of people and their methods where football agents are concerned. Mrs D went to one of the biggest sports agencies in the world and already had a relationship with SEM. Personally I think Jerome was fishing and played on their weaknesses, IE that party where he brought all his clients. Bright lights and fields of gold have been dangled in front of them and they have foolishly followed as the relationship blossomed. I don't understand how people who have made so much money can be so easily lead to the flame.

Jerome for me is guilty of the actions, Venky's guilty of being ludicrously gullible and naive.

[True Blue & White]

I'd still place the blame on Venky's though Phil. When a football agent approached them did they not revise what a football agent does? Did they not confine in as many people as they could do find out the true role of an agent, at what they set out to achieve for themselves? Did they not get some character references on the man himself?

Venky's still have time to save this ship, but they deserve every criticism aimed at them for driving us into the iceberg.

You've changed your tune but then I suppose we all get tired of flogging a dead horse in the end. I assume you've PM'd Phillip with an apology too after all the cr*p you've given his info which has sadly turned out to b true in the main.

Meanwhile, nicko is nowhere to be seen.

[Mattyblue]

For sidelining a highly competent Chairman and removing an accomlished team manager in the middle of a PL season Venky's must take responsiblity.

For hiring sharks (Agents) Venkys must take repsonsiblity.

However, the Trust should shoulder some reponsibility as they have utterly failed Jack Walker.

[S15]

You've changed your tune but then I suppose we all get tired of flogging a dead horse in the end. I assume you've PM'd Phillip with an apology too after all the cr*p you've given his info which has sadly turned out to b true in the main.

Meanwhile, nicko is nowhere to be seen.

Changed my tune how? I've always assessed events on how they've appeared to me from the evidence that has been available. I've been banned since the end of January, and nothing had happened by that point to make me think there was any kind of crisis. My views on Venky's are based on one thing; the decision to sack Allardyce and the decision to appoint Kean. I judge them on the black and white of their decisions, and not who may or may not have been advising them to make decisions. They are big boys, with plenty of business experience. Buying a business and getting rid of those who were already there I can live with. However, they are then judged on the success of those who replace them.

You're not really bright enough to grasp the concept of level headedness, but keep having a pop if you like, and I'll continue to keep ripping you a new arsehole.

[Majiball]

Who is the man who marginalised JW?

The second Kean was appointed the hierarchy changed. Kean went to Jerome (obviously he got him the caretakers job), Jerome direct to the Roa's. Kean should have called JW and from him to the Roa's. This is why Kean and JW did not get on, Jerome very cleverly took out the two obstacles in his path in JW and SA.

[thenodrog]

No research is going to reap the type of people and their methods where football agents are concerned. Mrs D went to one of the biggest sports agencies in the world and already had a relationship with SEM. Personally I think Jerome was fishing and played on their weaknesses, IE that party where he brought all his clients. Bright lights and fields of gold have been dangled in front of them and they have foolishly followed as the relationship blossomed. I don't understand how people who have made so much money can be so easily lead to the flame.

Jerome for me is guilty of the actions, Venky's guilty of being ludicrously gullible and naive.

Correct. But imo Venkey's real 'brains' was Mrs Desai's and the brothers father. He knew and understood the market for chicken in India. We are told that he passed on his empire and his philosophy that 'business is just a matter of common sense' to his children. Well whatever happens in the world of egg nad chicken meat production we all know that the Premier League is a million miles away from anything like common sense. It is not a peoples sport so much as a billionaires sideshow attraction. The Indian owners simply do not understand the nature of the beast (who on earth does btw? It's just a money pit). Unfortunately like many in the far east they are attracted to western culture like moths to a flame. They love to display their wealth, hence Bilaji's car collection. Stuff like owning an English Football club is a dream and a must have accessory in the bragging rights stakes.

They were connedvinced to put their trust in an agent and the rest is history. imo the old saying applies a fool and his money are soon parted.

[Paul]

Can't argue with thenodrog's or Majiball's assesments.

[Majiball]

Correct. But imo Venkey's real 'brains' was Mrs Desai's and the brothers father. He knew and understood the market for chicken in India. We are told that he passed on his empire and his philosophy that 'business is just a matter of common sense' to his children. Well whatever happens in the world of egg nad chicken meat production we all know that the Premier League is a million miles away from anything like common sense. It is not a peoples sport so much as a billionaires sideshow attraction. The Indian owners simply do not understand the nature of the beast (who on earth does btw? It's just a money pit). Unfortunately like many in the far east they are attracted to western culture like moths to a flame. They love to display their wealth, hence Bilaji's car collection. Stuff like owning an English Football club is a dream and a must have accessory in the bragging rights stakes.

They were connedvinced to put their trust in an agent and the rest is history. imo the old saying applies a fool and his money are soon parted.

I think history would back up the claim that those who follow great people are generally merely shadows of their predecessors.

You would have thought they would have had the nous to investigate all the takeovers that have occurred in the prem and analysed what they did and how their rein got on. But no instead they jump in with both feet, thinking they know better whilst admitting they know nothing.

However they have finally ended the age old scientific debate over whether shadows have brains, they obviously don't.

[True Blue & White]

Changed my tune how? I've always assessed events on how they've appeared to me from the evidence that has been available. I've been banned since the end of January, and nothing had happened by that point to make me think there was any kind of crisis. My views on Venky's are based on one thing; the decision to sack Allardyce and the decision to appoint Kean. I judge them on the black and white of their decisions, and not who may or may not have been advising them to make decisions. They are big boys, with plenty of business experience. Buying a business and getting rid of those who were already there I can live with. However, they are then judged on the success of those who replace them.

You're not really bright enough to grasp the concept of level headedness, but keep having a pop if you like, and I'll continue to keep ripping you a new arsehole.

You auditioning for the part of a Gunnery Sergeant in a Vietnam War movie or something? Very pleasant....

So because all of this was clear from day one, and me and other posters had the foresight to see that whilst you didn't, that makes you 'level headed' does it. Denying an obvious problem and hoping for the best as you were doing was not being "level headed".

And I don't have a problem with people who were blindly optimistic, but you were blindly optimistic and offensive to anyone who disagreed. My posts rarely were directed at you and yet you felt the need to PM me and tell me how annoying I was because I had the temerity to not believe the Venky's hype you and other were swallowing.

Your post doesn't make sense either, you say nothing had happened before your were banned at the end of January and then go on to say you are now judging Venky's on the sacking on Sam (which did happen before you banned, way before in fact when you were still in Venky's defender mode). The only thing that has changed your mind is the current run of results, nothing more because Venky's haven't actually done anything since you have been banned (I suppose Williams left but you didn't mention that bothering you).

Oh and I love the irony of this sentence...

"You're not really bright enough to grasp the concept of level headedness"

You're right, I'm so thick I can't make up words like you and are forced to use ones already in the dictionary

Correct. But imo Venkey's real 'brains' was Mrs Desai's and the brothers father. He knew and understood the market for chicken in India. We are told that he passed on his empire and his philosophy that 'business is just a matter of common sense' to his children.

Not to mention the massive economic boom that has hit India over the past 10 years and is continuing which makes growing your business almost inevitable rather than a sign of good acumen. In other words, they've been lucky to be handed a ready made business in a country that started to get richer and richer by the day.

[S15]

And I don't have a problem with people who were blindly optimistic, but you were blindly optimistic and offensive to anyone who disagreed. My posts rarely were directed at you and yet you felt the need to PM me and tell me how annoying I was because I had the temerity to not believe the Venky's hype you and other were swallowing.

Your post doesn't make sense either, you say nothing had happened before your were banned at the end of January and then go on to say you are now judging Venky's on the sacking on Sam (which did happen before you banned, way before in fact you were still in Venky's defender mode). The only thing that has changed your mind is the current run of results, nothing more because Venky's haven't actually done anything since you have been banned (I suppose Williams left but you didn't mention that bothering you).

I'm blindly optimistic? You haven't been here long have you? Just too much recently I'd say.

I did mention Williams leaving if you read carefully, though reading between the lines might prove a challenge for you. Before I got banned we were in the top half and playing decent stuff. Now we are fighting relegation and not playing decent stuff. Of course that changed my opinion. I Kean manages to turn it around, and somehow get 9-12 points between now and the end of the season whilst once again playing decent stuff, my opinion will change again. I believe Venky's have made some silly mistakes, but I can't accept that they want anything than this venture to be a success.

What they have to prove is whether or not they are up to it, and time is running out for them to prove this.

[philipl]

Please this is not the time for in-fighting.

We all feel passionate about the club and the awful situation we now face. We all make misjudgements in the heat of the situation and I most certainly have.

What we do need is for the person with the authority (Mrs Desai) to start picking the right people to do the right jobs. That is a skill which when developed should be transferable from place to place and industry to industry if enough care is taken to ask enough of the right questions before trusting anybody.

[onlyonejackwalker]

I bought a failing business in 2005. I tried to make it work but failed. I knew what I was buying and the risks involved. Perhaps the previous owners are actually to blame for selling to me?

Who Takes Responsibility?

No decision will have been taken without the Venky's involvement and say so.

They chose the agents they trusted and wished to work with.

They then acted on advice given and removed the previous manager and his support staff.

They then acted on advice given and chose their new manager.

They then acted on advice given and chose their assistant manager.

They then acted on advice given and removed the chairman.

They then acted on advice given and released funds for the players chosen by the agents and manager they had selected.

They have subsequently watched us plummit down the league table.

The pathetic PR, poor management, poor decision making, poor appointments, to ridiculous marquee signings, to the removal of quality individuals within the club, to poor use of available funds, to the current leage table and position....the Venky's have done absolutely NOTHING but cause unnecessary ridicule, confusion and uncertainty within the club. This is reflected in performances and results and leage placings.

I am amazed at their stupidity. I am amazed at their naivety. Their lack of class appalls me.

I want my Rovers back.

[savage8]

For sidelining a highly competent Chairman and removing an accomlished team manager in the middle of a PL season Venky's must take responsiblity.

For hiring sharks (Agents) Venkys must take repsonsiblity.

However, the Trust should shoulder some reponsibility as they have utterly failed Jack Walker.

What he said - summed up perfectly in 3 lines.

[Mercer]

As current owners, Venkys shoulder the blame as excellently detailed by Onlyonejackwalker.

However, as Mattyblue also flags, did the Trust exercise sufficient due care ? If they didn't, they failed Jack, the club generally and its supporters.

[True Blue & White]

I bought a failing business in 2005. I tried to make it work but failed. I knew what I was buying and the risks involved. Perhaps the previous owners are actually to blame for selling to me?

Bit n bold is the key, Rovers were not a 'failing business' when Venky's took over, we were fairly stable. Their actions have now made us a failing business.

You bought a business that was failing and could turn it around. Venky's bought a stable business which they have now made unstable.