[Archived] Sparing more thoughts

[Rover Down Under]

As a former resident of the Tokyo area the news and videos brought back some scary memories. Earthquakes are very common in Japan and while you may experience maybe a dozen per year they are mostly very minor and, dare I say, fun. When you experience a big one they are absolutely terrifying, the utter helplessness and notion that you are a tiny insignificant speck in the violent, iron grip of Mother Nature's whim is not something that can be easily conveyed in words or pictures.

If there is an upside it is that it affected a (relatively) sparsely populated area of Honshu, a quake like that off the coast of Tokyo / Osaka / Nagoya or any of the several million+ cities would mean casualties in the hundreds of thousands.

Reports from my friends in Tokyo all say the same thing; "still shaking..." - I'm not sure if that's aftershocks or jangled nerves.

[Guest Wen Y Hu]

The Chief Cabinet Secretary is currently holding a press conference and talking about the latest situation regarding the explosion at the Fukushima No 1 nuclear plant.

Earlier in the day at 10am a press conference was held to indicate that the immediate area around the No 1 and No 2 plants had been evacuated and that there were problems with the cooling system. Apparently the nuclear reactors were shut down automatically ok, but the backup generator(s) did not kick in. The water pumps did not function and water levels were operating at danger levels as the reactor(s) at No 1 overheated.

Early this afternoon reports were coming through that the reactor(s) were going into meltdown. It was explained that a repeat of Chernobyl was not in danger of happening as the reactors themselves had shut down safely. The problem was the possibility of a radiation leak rather than a nuclear explosion (as I understand it). A short time ago, reports were coming in that an explosion had been heard and this has been confirmed in the press conference just now. The authorities are keeping a tight lid on information and are stating that they are still waiting for clarification as to the precise nature of the explosion and asking for the press to act responsibly and refrain from speculation that might cause panic.

[dillo_dillo]

The Chief Cabinet Secretary is ~~~~~~

Are you a Nuclear Scientist??

[Guest Wen Y Hu]

No!! And I'm not a rocket scientist either... I'm merely reporting what I hear and see on the news.

Thanks for lightening the mood.

[dillo_dillo]

No!! And I'm not a rocket scientist either... I'm merely reporting what I hear and see on the news.

Thanks for lightening the mood.

Ok,

Could you stop your post for your pleasure?

We try to hard keeping coolness and need the facts and figures about this problem.

many thanks!

[Guest Wen Y Hu]

No problem... Keep your chin up (ganbatte!)

Fukushima No 2 nuclear plant is now in critical condition. Evacuation procedures are now underway as a 20km exclusion zone has just been declared (originally it was 3km, then extended to 10km).

Just to explain: the current issues concern two nuclear power plants in the prefecture of Fukushima in the northeast of Japan; namely, the Fukushima Number 1 (Daiichi) and Number 2 (Daini) power plants. I'm not entirely sure about the No 2 plant, but No 1 plant has four reactors. The explosion earlier occurred at Fukushima No 1 plant in the Number 1 reactor.

rebel was asking about casualties earlier: persons missing are currently reported at around the 800 mark; earlier this afternoon some 470 were confirmed dead. The numbers alone, however, hide the immense scale of the tragedy.

[Glenn]

Sadly, as my actual nuclear scientist friend is currently raging about how inaccurate (in the technical/science sense) the UK press is being (not necessarily about events, but the workings of nuclear reactors) so feedback from trusted English speakers in Japan (like you and Wen) is exceptionally informative, it'd much rather read how it's being reported in Japan than what 99% of the UK see which is some diluted inaccurate doom-mongering Murdoch-employed hack sat in a London office who cares more about keeping viewer tension high than either accuracy or compassion.

That said, it goes without saying, I'm sure most of our nations thoughts are with the people of Japan today.

Update. Same guy has suggested NHK World on channel 516 is giving much more accurate (again, I stress in a technical sense, not necessarily events) information than Sky.

[HemelRover]

is giving much more accurate......information than Sky.

My Tea leaves give more accurate information than Sky does.

Events like this really do reinforce the fragility of human society when compared to nature.

[Guest Wen Y Hu]

The mainstream Japanese press and media is very conservative and is not given to sensationalism. NHK's reporting will err on the side of caution and I think you will find it to be very reliable. I expect that the images they transmit will tell a more accurate story than the likes of Sky.

One notable aspect of the last 24 hours of reporting is that it is very sober. Japanese news reporters on the commercial channels can often become rather animated and excited, but the mood and tone across the news networks is very sombre. Even when the newsroom has been shaking around them, reporters have been remarkably calm.

[thenodrog]

Massive disaster and much sympathy to the Japanese people. Just standing back though it's rather noteworthy that the damage is much worse due to the presence of mankind. The power station situation is of course obvious and a seperate issue but the tidal wave would have exhausted itself and receded back into the sea with much less consequence without our input. The TV reports show damage was magnifyed many times by the man made debris that the waves carried along.

Might be an irrelevant question given the aftermath events but just out of interest what stage was the tide when the wave came?

[Guest Wen Y Hu]

Fukushima No 2 nuclear plant is now in critical condition. Evacuation procedures are now underway as a 20km exclusion zone has just been declared (originally it was 3km, then extended to 10km).

Correction: the 20km exclusion zone applies to the No 1 plant; the No 2 plant exclusion zone remains at 10km.

[dillo_dillo]

THANKS!! to THE WORLD!!

http://matome.naver.jp/odai/2129985372846288901

[cn174]

Might be an irrelevant question given the aftermath events but just out of interest what stage was the tide when the wave came?

Gord I don't know the answer, I can see where you are going, but whether water was at high or low tide is irrelevant when a tsunami (not a tidal wave) comes along. They are unrelated phenomenon too. The sheer amount of force and volume that tsunamis have engulfs the normal tide behaviour.

[Paul]

Correction: the 20km exclusion zone applies to the No 1 plant; the No 2 plant exclusion zone remains at 10km.

It does though depend on where one gets one's news. The BBC were reporting 4-5 hours ago, via a very calm and measured nuclear scientist what may be happening within the plant and why the exlusion zone could be required. The obvious headline reason is the plant is going to blow, however the BBC were at pains to explain the reason for evacuation will be to allow the authorties to take whatever action is necessary. Apparently the pressure build up of steam and water can be so great this has the potential to create significant explosions. While the explosion itself could be dramatic it would not be nuclear as the reactor is already shut down. By evacuating the area the authorities are able to vent the plant, releasing pressure and possible low level radiation to avoid an explosion. If the area is still populated the presence of people complicates the decision to vent or not.

The BBC have also just reported, 12.10, the Japan government saying no damage to the containment vessels and radiation levels in the area dropping.

It's very interesting flipping between Sky News on Freeview and the BBC. One calm and measured the other calm and measured with plenty of experts discussing the worst case scenario. I know wher I'll get my news.

[Paul]

Edit.

[Guest Wen Y Hu]

The latest official police figures for confirmed casualties:

821 dead

Over 645 missing

2500 homes completely destroyed

One coastal town in Iwate alone has seen over 300 houses flattened by a tsunami, and the current police figures are likely a fraction of the total number of homes destroyed. Goodness knows how many cars have been wrecked. Some of these communities will take years to rebuild, both physically and socially.

Regarding the Fukushima No 1 power plant, the building that houses No 1 reactor has collapsed, while the temperature of the reactor core has just been reported as having risen to over 2700C. On the one hand, radiation levels at the plant gates are being reported as 90 times normal and the amount of radiation released in one hour is roughly a year's worth.Yet, the Chief Cabinet Secretary has just issued a statment that radiation concentration is not so high. Meanwhile, 3 people are being treated for irradiation at a hospital. A further complicating factor is that there are continuous, very strong aftershocks hitting the area near the nuclear plants, such as the Magnitude 6 that hit a short while ago. The 20km/10km exclusion zone information is confirmed, by the way, and they are carrying out radiation checks on evacuees.

[thenodrog]

Gord I don't know the answer, I can see where you are going, but whether water was at high or low tide is irrelevant when a tsunami (not a tidal wave) comes along. They are unrelated phenomenon too. The sheer amount of force and volume that tsunamis have engulfs the normal tide behaviour.

Hmm not sure about that Clur. A tide is really a tsunami in slow motion. Two scenarios ... Morecambe Bay and Beachy head. A Tsunami would have absolutely no effect at Beachy Head whether the tide be low or high and surely there must be a serious energy sapping effect at low tide on Morebambe Bay (or Southport) when the sea is at low tide compared to when it's lapping up to the prom with flat terrain over the top.

From the reports the most seriously affected areas are the low lying ones where there is nothing to halt the flow of water.

Just wondering....

[thenodrog]

One coastal town in Iwate alone has seen over 300 houses flattened by a tsunami, and the current police figures are likely a fraction of the total number of homes destroyed. Goodness knows how many cars have been wrecked. Some of these communities will take years to rebuild, both physically and socially.

Will they ever be rebuilt? Who would want to live there with the quite likely chance that this could easily happen again? Who would willingly build within 50 km's or so of a nuclear power station that has suffered a radiation leak? Moving on and who would insure them?

[cn174]

Hmm not sure about that Clur. A tide is really a tsunami in slow motion.

It's not They both have waves - that is a similarity - but a tide is controlled by the moon and gravity in cycles, a tsunami begins with a gigantic displacement of energy from events such as an earthquake.

What you say does apply - the lie of the land does effect what the water does and goes when it hits the shore. If the land is flat they can travel for a great deal of distance like they did yesterday. Using your example a tsunami would cause more damage at Morecambe than Beachy Head because there's less obstacles in the way. But the tsunami hitting Morecambe Bay at low or high tide wouldn't make much difference because usually when they hit land the tsunami first creates a vacuum like drawback of the water at the shore, then goes back in with great force.

[colin]

Dillo,

It's good to hear that you are OK. My Mother has called to ask if you are OK.

She was happy when I said that you were OK. She remembers you with much affection.

I hope you get through all of this, although Japan loooks to be suffering a big problem.

Colin

[dillo_dillo]

Dillo,

It's good to hear that you are OK. My Mother has called to ask if you are OK.

She was happy when I said that you were OK. She remembers you with much affection.

I hope you get through all of this, although Japan loooks to be suffering a big problem.

Colin

Thanks for your word! and say thank you for asking to your mother : )

I'm OK.

nuclear power plant(Fukushima) is Grrrrrr , but! it avoid the most worst situation.

I don't know well how oversea's media saying about it ... IMO they on the air a little bit "fuel fear"type news.

and

Tsunami damage is more important and huge problem than nuclear power plant!!!!!

We lost many Towns and cities.

literally, people, house, everything ware swept away by huge Tsunami.

Still we don't know how many people disappearance... ( i guess around 20,000 )

I Pride us.

we hit by huge earthquake that strong as 700 times strong Haiti one.

but we have no riot, no looted store. we helping each other. that's great i think.

[sparkspakespoke]

I think thats great too dillo. The people of japan have acted perfectly and set an example to the rest of us.

[Guest Wen Y Hu]

Today the initial earthquake has been upgraded from M8.8 to M9.0 after re-calculation of the energy produced.

The Met Office here has today issued a warning that there is a 70% probability of a Magnitude 7+ earthquake occurring off the northeast Japan coast within the next 3 days and a 50% probability for the following 3 days. This is expected to be accompanied by tsunami.

Images of the destruction along the coast caused by the tsunami are continually being shown on the tv and they are awesome in the original sense of the word. The speed of the tsunami was extremely rapid, according to reports, and some towns were hit in just 30-35 minutes and without adequate warning of the scale and timing of the tsunami. Just to give an idea of the scale of destruction, in the town of Minami-sanrikucho in Miyagi, some 10,000 of its 17,000 population are still unaccounted for. Minami-sanrikucho is just south of Kesennuma and both of these coastal towns were hit by the tsunami. The damage there is just incredible.

Thenodrog was asking about tsunami earlier and, as Clare explained, the tsunami is triggered by seismic activity and is quite independent of tidal forces. In the open sea, a tsunami can travel at the speed of a jet plane, around 900km/h, before losing speed rapidly as it enters shallower waters and gaining in height. (The BBC's animated guide to the tsunami phenomenon.)

The problems at Fukushima No 1 nuclear power plant continue. Today the focus is on the third reactor. Note that there are a total of six reactors at the No 1 plant, only three of which (units 1, 2 and 3) were operating at the time of the earthquake. The BBC reports below sum the situation up better than I ever could:

Problems for second Japan reactor (see especially Chris Hogg's insightful analysis)

Uncertainty surrounds Japan's nuclear picture (article incorrectly headed as "Problems for second Japan reactor")

Timeline: Japan power plant explosion

Thousands protest against Germany's nuclear plants (international perspective on potential repercussions of the problems at the Fukushima

plant)

[dillo_dillo]

Sendai (Miyagi pref.) is one of quake-hit area.

there is a home town of VEGALTA Sendai FC.

see this movie, Veaglta fans singing behind the goal stand(it's not their home stadium.)

and could you add your words.

thanks.

=======

Kashima Stadium .... one of W-Cup2002 korea-Japan stadium suffer damage.

see Kashima-Antlars official site.

http://www.so-net.ne.jp/antlers/news/release/10110

http://www.so-net.ne.jp/antlers/news/release/10107

[thenodrog]

Thenodrog was asking about tsunami earlier and, as Clare explained, the tsunami is triggered by seismic activity and is quite independent of tidal forces. In the open sea, a tsunami can travel at the speed of a jet plane, around 900km/h, before losing speed rapidly as it enters shallower waters and gaining in height. (The BBC's animated guide to the tsunami phenomenon.)

I know all that wen. Both are massive moving bodies of water albeit caused by far different forces, the speed being the main difference. It must have been like the tide coming in inside 20 seconds. btw.... Before the Indian Ocean tsunami they were more usually referred to over here as Tidal waves. Back to my question I simply wanted to know what stage the tide was at the time and if the stage of the tide influenced the destruction caused. On reflection I'm sure it must do. Sorry cos it's only a triviallity compared to the main issue.