[Archived] EDL demonstration in Blackburn

[Wilky]

Should this be tolerated on a football messageboard ?

This is yet another thread being subverted by Gordon to promote his bigoted anti Asian / Islamist views.

Time for the moderators to take action.

why because u don't agree?

[thenodrog]

The answer is not less freedom of speech, but more of it. The more the imbeciles are allowed to talk, the quicker they can be identified as idiots.

I think some label under the old "burdens" where deference must be given to select groups as oppressed minorities. The EDL don't fall into that classification so its a lot easier to criticze them.

Which is in a way a shame. The more bogotry, anger, hatred, etc. is suppressed, the more likely it will eventually explode. IMO, people should be able to call anyone anything under the sun. Let them get it out of their system and, perhaps, mass murder and maimings can be avoided. Better, integration may be more likely, not less likely, by fewer restrictions.

I'm a Christian. And I have faith that you are 100% wrong.

You can apply all the faith you want Steve but I'm not wrong. I think you need to listen to a few Christopher Hitchens debates.

[rebelmswar]

Why? Surely it's up to the restaurant what they serve? As long as people are aware of what they are buying it should up to them what they choose to sell. I agree there should be debate on the ethics of Halal meat preparation, but until such time as it's outlawed, shops should be free to sell whatever they want.

Now, if KFC were clever, they WOULD offer both options an potentially get custom from both groups.

They would have to have seperate fryers, prep stations, etc. It would be madness and god forbid there is a flake of bacon found on the Colonels Tofu Special.

KFC like this is so hilarious. I can imagine a Kentukian walking into it now - it would be hysterical.

[Wilky]

talking about kfc, why on earth should we have halal forced upon us? some one posted kfc isn't a god given right? neither is halal, yet the muzzys cry when they don't get their own way... its whoops I missed off the "g" scandalous...

[rebelmswar]

For a country riddled with athiets it does strike me as odd that no one has sued the ###### out of them so forcing religious practices on the people.

[thenodrog]

Should this be tolerated on a football messageboard ?

This is yet another thread being subverted by Gordon to promote his bigoted anti Asian / Islamist views.

Time for the moderators to take action.

Stupid old sod. How can you be so thick? I've condemned both sides in many posts!

See what your stupid post has led to 47er? I warned you and now you have stirred the Belfast bigot and this embittered clown into similar comment. Throw enough mud eh?

I'll repeat for the benefit of all 3. Personally I hate all the extreme factions that will be present at this march and if I were in charge I'd round the vermin up, cram em into King Georges and turn the bloody gas taps on!

[Tom]

talking about kfc, why on earth should we have halal forced upon us? some one posted kfc isn't a god given right? neither is halal, yet the muzzys cry when they don't get their own way... its whoops I missed off the "g" scandalous...

Making a KFC halal isn't forcing anything upon you.

[rebelmswar]

Making a KFC halal isn't forcing anything upon you.

If I want extra bacon on it it is.

[Glenn]

talking about kfc, why on earth should we have halal forced upon us? some one posted kfc isn't a god given right? neither is halal, yet the muzzys cry when they don't get their own way... its whoops I missed off the "g" scandalous...

If it's being forced upon you, I'd probably call Amnesty International. I suspect you're not forced at all. You simply don't like the choices you're offered. I'm the same at McD's I don't like the burgers but I'm quite partial to the breakfast bagels, the fact I can't get them after 10am isn't them forcing me to eat burgers for lunch, it's simply removing the the choice and yes, I'd prefer it wasn't like that, which is why I rarely use McD's.

So, one KFC (which is a franchise) has made a decision that it would be better off selling Halal chicken than not. They were no more forced into it than you were to buy it. Simple supply and demand, if they can't offer both (and Reb's points out why that's not economical to sell both), they've gone for the more profitable one. This isn't some action based on race or religion, it's the franchise owner not being dumb as rocks.

Likewise in Bradford (unlike Leeds) in Subway, I normally get asked "I've been handling meat, would your prefer I changed my gloves". This isn't "pandering to muslims", it's simply not excluding a chunk of your potential customers when it can be easily avoided with a simple question and a slightly larger stock of disposable gloves.

[Wilky]

For a country riddled with athiets it does strike me as odd that no one has sued the ###### out of them so forcing religious practices on the people.

The country is more riddled with religious freaks... And what would suing anyone do? Wouldnt hold up in court unfortunatly.. As the judge would know doubt be a born again christian (lmao) or a muslim

[rebelmswar]

The country is more riddled with religious freaks... And what would suing anyone do? Wouldnt hold up in court unfortunatly.. As the judge would know doubt be a born again christian (lmao) or a muslim

Well suing is the bread and butter of the athiest fraternity in the US.

Works rather well too.

Anything vaguely religious is fair game.

[Glenn]

The country is more riddled with religious freaks... And what would suing anyone do? Wouldnt hold up in court unfortunatly.. As the judge would know doubt be a born again christian (lmao) or a muslim

Do you generally just type whatever spills into your head, or are you just having an unfortunate run of unintentionally choosing areas to talk about you are obviously not that informed about?

[OhmiBRFC]

I don`t

Never really rated the stuff anyway. It always looks great on the tv ads, but have always felt let down when you real thing is put infront of me

I just don`t agree with 'choice' being taken away from people. I`m not a smoker, but i feel the same way about the smoking ban. The British public should`ve been given a chance to choose whether they want to frequent a smoking pub or non-smoking pub.

Anyway, is anybody actually gonna take part or watch the protests in Blackburn this next weekend? I know people who are going down...mainly just to be nosey.

You have a choice of going or not going though. It's ridiculous. Being Halal has no affect on the meat. Just an excuse to bash Islam. I know people who won't eat KFC but go to a Halal take away.

[rebelmswar]

When they open a non Halal Indian resteraunt to make a vocal group happy I will shut my face.

[colin]

Great thread chaps,

Keep it going with all the little hatred you've got inside you for things that don't really matter. If I was a vegetarian athiest I wouldn't give a vicar's fart for the fact that Kentucky Fried Rat was halal or not.

If I wasn't, I'd probably be more concerned about whether or not it was Kentucky (which it obviously isn't.)

And factory farmed. The poor f******r are raised in horrible conditions,fed hormones to promote their growth and put on weight, so that we can buy them for next to nothing.

I don't think that the way that they are killed means next to sod-all.

Really, does it? I don't suppose the EDL give a flying f**k where there next burger comes from as long as it's got chips on it.

[Steve Moss]

You can apply all the faith you want Steve but I'm not wrong. I think you need to listen to a few Christopher Hitchens debates.

I have listened to some. He is a very intelligent, very well spoken man who is excellent at chosing his words.

I enjoy his news articles and op-eds. I think his hatred of religion must have some root cause other than pure intellect (of which he has plenty, coupled with a dark streak of some sort in his psyche). Religion is something that can be neither proven nor disproven. At the end of the day, its about faith. Some have it, some don't. And one is not superior to another for having come to different conclusions on that issue.

I'll repeat for the benefit of all 3. Personally I hate all the extreme factions that will be present at this march and if I were in charge I'd round the vermin up, cram em into King Georges and turn the bloody gas taps on!

Now that's is having a strong opinion! Good for you. But careful it doesn't lead you into becoming a one man extreme faction.

You have caused me to think the only way your solution could be put into effect is if you were elevated to Absolute Monarch Gordon or in a true anarchy, if you had the means. Which them recalled to me one person's opinion as to the "anarchists" who are now rioting in London. Per Clayton Cramer: "In an anarchy, a bunch of masked kids running through a big city smashing in shop windows would be machine gunned or sold into slavery by the private security firms that would exist in a true anarchy."

[Paul]

I hate on all religion... no matter what religion it is... if its connected with any sort of god then I will preach my hate...

Which is what religious extremists preach putting you in the exact same position as someone holding the religious views you are so opposed to. It will never be possible to take religion out of society, any attempt to do so would simply drive it underground creating more radical groups and individuals.

[Miker]

Nationalist groups are an interesting sort. There is a fundamental problem in dealing with them because they believe that first and foremost, the thing that matters most is their culture, history and way of life. It means any attack or infringement on any of these won't be tolerated and where this is the case, it is simply impossible for multiple nationalities to exist in unity and peace.

The nationalistic feeling these people have is not stupid in my opinion though and should not be disregarded, but it is misguided. It's misguided because of what being a nationalist means and what it means to be part of a "nation". It is an outdated notion in the modern world where a shift is occurring from a national identity to a global one. The people forming these groups and participating in these protests and marches are people who are still trying to cling on to this national identity instead of progressing further. This isn't to say that nationalism is stupid or irrelevant, but simply that we live in a changing world, where life, meanings and ideologies will always continue to change.

I think that this shift from national to global identity has been happening too quickly and because some places are changing at different rates, it becomes difficult, nearly impossible, to manage. It is also much harder to establish a global identity for the entirety of the world's population because there aren't enough distinct symbols and messages to unite people together, so it is quite easy to resist in favour of something more obvious like a national identity.

In terms of Halal meat at places like KFC... quite simply, it's your choice whether to eat there or not. I had a Halal kebab today, it was quite delicious. Tomorrow I might go have a non-Halal sub at Subway, which will be equally as delicious. If you don't like the food somewhere, then don't eat there. I don't want to get into an ethical debate about Halal meat here, but it is an important point that the reason Muslims choose to kill their meat in a certain way is for ETHICAL reasons, not for a random religious tradition. Their way of killing the animal is seen as the most humane way of doing it. Their prayer over the meat before killing it, is no different in concept to Christians saying grace before meals.

I think as far as Halal meat goes, if you don't like the taste of it, then don't eat at places that serve Halal meat. Unfortunately, it's that restaurant's choice to serve food in a particular way. I know heaps of people who love Maccas chips, but not KFC chips. I don't see those people coming onto messageboards like this and demanding that they be given a choice between thin and chunky chips.

If it's an ethical issue, well I'd be surprised if places like KFC obtain their meat in a completely ethical manner, whether it's Halal or not. If I was really concerned with the ethical slaughter of animals, I would insist upon eating only at places where free range meat is used, or not be eating meat at all.

[Paul]

I think you make some very good points there Miker.

This question of being "forced" to eat halal meat isn't valid. It is, as several have pointed out, a choice made by both the restaurant owner and the customer. I never eat KFC, McD or Subway and I dislike Starbucks. When I travel for work my choice of service stations is limited to those with Costa and M&S. It's my personal dislike of the brands mentioned which "forces" me to chose certain service stations. It is me making the choice not the restaurant owner.

[Miker]

I enjoy his news articles and op-eds. I think his hatred of religion must have some root cause other than pure intellect (of which he has plenty, coupled with a dark streak of some sort in his psyche). Religion is something that can be neither proven nor disproven. At the end of the day, its about faith. Some have it, some don't. And one is not superior to another for having come to different conclusions on that issue.

I think you'd find that his hatred for religion isn't as strong as it is portrayed in public most of the time. Same goes for other famous atheists like Richard #######. In my eyes religion is just lazy. It's a lazy solution to teaching people good morals and ethics. When you get down to the nitty gritty, all religions have some wonderful messages and teach us some brilliant things about how to better live our lives and make the most of our potential, but it's lost in all the propaganda messages that usually keep getting spewed forth.

Most religious traditions are based on very complex philosophical conclusions and have good human, logical reasons for them, but instead they are presented to people as "the will of God" or similar nonsense.

[Miker]

This question of being "forced" to eat halal meat isn't valid. It is as several have pointed out a choice made by both the restaurant owner and the customer. I never eat KFC, McD or Subway and I dislike Starbucks. When I travel for work my choice of service stations is limited to those with Costa and M&S. It's my personal dislike of the brands mentioned which "forces" me to chose certain service stations. It is me making the choice not the restaurant owner.

You've basically emphasised the point I was trying to make in that there is too much attention given by some to the fact that a place serves Halal food. In the end it's no different a label to something like Pepsi and Coca Cola.

[dave birch]

I think you'd find that his hatred for religion isn't as strong as it is portrayed in public most of the time. Same goes for other famous atheists like Richard #######. In my eyes religion is just lazy. It's a lazy solution to teaching people good morals and ethics. When you get down to the nitty gritty, all religions have some wonderful messages and teach us some brilliant things about how to better live our lives and make the most of our potential, but it's lost in all the propaganda messages that usually keep getting spewed forth.

Most religious traditions are based on very complex philosophical conclusions and have good human, logical reasons for them, but instead they are presented to people as "the will of God" or similar nonsense.

Sorry to interrupt the discussion, but I laughed out load when seeing the #. It seems a certain members surname is still on the banned list.

Carry on.....

[Stuart]

So to sum up:

Religious "types" are "freaks" whereas non-religious "types" are logical and sensible human beings.

Halal is not a cruel out-dated method of painfully slaughtering animals but a stick with which "non-freaks" can bash Islam.

Or maybe it's just a lifestyle "choice" (currently at least) in exactly the same way as the choice of soft drink. Although I don't remember Coca Cola telling it's customers that they were not allowed to drink Pepsi.

And religion per se is the route of all hatred and should not only be treated with contempt but also... hate.

Well that's just great. Thank Zeus it's only the religious freaks who are naive and sheltered, and there are enlightened human being to sort out the wheat from the gluten.

I don't know why these groups bother marching. They should just read ICBINF regularly. They'd quickly lose the Will. Ha, that's pretty ironic in itself considering all of the indoctrination flying about!

[thenodrog]

....It's ridiculous. Being Halal has no affect on the meat. Just an excuse to bash Islam.

In a bloody nutshell Ohmi! Just try telling that to an indoctrinated muslim though.

Brainwashed the lot of em. The long term answer's in education of course. Ban all religious education until the age of 18, close secular schools outright and teach children from an early age the science behind food production and preperation and the basic difference between right and wrong in all aspects of life in this country.

[thenodrog]

And factory farmed. The poor f******r are raised in horrible conditions,fed hormones to promote their growth and put on weight,

Which hormones are those Colin? Can you specifically name any that are used in such a way in this country?

I have listened to some. He is a very intelligent, very well spoken man who is excellent at chosing his words.

I enjoy his news articles and op-eds. I think his hatred of religion must have some root cause other than pure intellect (of which he has plenty, coupled with a dark streak of some sort in his psyche). Religion is something that can be neither proven nor disproven. At the end of the day, its about faith. Some have it, some don't. And one is not superior to another for having come to different conclusions on that issue.

Now that's is having a strong opinion! Good for you. But careful it doesn't lead you into becoming a one man extreme faction.

You have caused me to think the only way your solution could be put into effect is if you were elevated to Absolute Monarch Gordon or in a true anarchy, if you had the means. Which them recalled to me one person's opinion as to the "anarchists" who are now rioting in London. Per Clayton Cramer: "In an anarchy, a bunch of masked kids running through a big city smashing in shop windows would be machine gunned or sold into slavery by the private security firms that would exist in a true anarchy."

We've done that in the past too! Press gang got shot of loads of dollopers overseas never to be heard of again. Society survived, the country went from strength to strength and the earth never even wobbled on it's axis for a second.