[Archived] EDL demonstration in Blackburn

[colin]

I am less concerned over the method of slaughter than the fact that a blessing is given in a religion that is I strongly dislike. If animals are to be killed in that way then it should be labelled in such a way that I can reject it if I wish. The problem is that you just do not know what you are buying.

Al, that's (to my eyes) a very strange post. You're OK about the method of slaughter but are concerned that some religious ritual is given to the animal. I'm confidently assuming that the animal has no belief in the religion and, from the tone of your post, neither do you. So what's the problem?

It's a bit like not slipping a 50p under the pillow of a small child for a tooth fairy.

It's just a bit of dead animal. Probably had the bolt through it's head fired by a Burnley fan and enviscerated by his 14 year-old wife (and sister.)

[Miker]

I am less concerned over the method of slaughter than the fact that a blessing is given in a religion that is I strongly dislike. If animals are to be killed in that way then it should be labelled in such a way that I can reject it if I wish. The problem is that you just do not know what you are buying.

Al, as I mentioned before... the blessing said over the meal is similar to Christians saying grace before meals. I honestly don't see why you would be bothered by what is being said, given that it is simply a respectful way of saying "thank you" to the animal for sacrificing its life in order to sustain others.

I think people are getting way too picky with this sort of thing, in my opinion you either don't care what meat you eat as long as it's delicious, you believe in animal rights but are unwilling to give up meat so will choose to eat free range (which is labelled) or you don't eat meat at all.

[Guest linganzi]

For me as long as we respect the animal in life and death ie a decent quality of life and then nose to tail in death that's enough. All slaughter if sine properly is as humane as possible. If you can't cope with that you probably should not have meat on the plate .

Have you ever had a curry or a kebab al ?

It seems the edl are into defending our borders and britishness which is amusing as I wonder what they consider British in such a transient historically multicultural nation ?

[dave birch]

For me as long as we respect the animal in life and death ie a decent quality of life and then nose to tail in death that's enough. All slaughter if sine properly is as humane as possible. If you can't cope with that you probably should not have meat on the plate .

Have you ever had a curry or a kebab al ?

It seems the edl are into defending our borders and britishness which is amusing as I wonder what they consider British in such a transient historically multicultural nation ?

So, Langanzi, "Britishness" is not worth defending?

Now, I'm no supporter of anyone wanting to use violence as a means to an end, but, when the heritage of a couple of thousand years is changed in decades, then there's a problem.

Not one that needs violence, but one that needs to be examined.

When people in their own country feel threatened by some "outside influence" the locals do have a point.

Integration is the name of the game. If you can't integrate, why bother emigrating in the first place?

Sorry to take the topic off food.

BTW, both my kids worked at KFC when at school, it taught them how to work in a structured environment, to work to a plan. It gave them the money to travel the world, to pay off their Uni fees, but both don't want to eat the stuff.

[Guest linganzi]

I didn't say that, I said people have confused ideas about britishness and indigiounousness if that's even a word? Integration on the whole has been a healthy thing there will always be exceptions to the rule. I quite simply don't see what there is to be scared of. Some of it it can only come down to a lack of education and understanding

[dave birch]

To me, there's no difference between "Britishness" and "indigionousness". They mean that you are of where you live.

When you have an outside influence trying to impose their background on the locals, then there's bound to be friction.

If you move to an area then, you "do as the Romans do".

Whilst I'd agree that the locals should (to some extent) cut the newbies some slack, the newbies should be looking to be like the locals.

As an aside, I note that a Blackburn born girl of Islamic heritage is wanting to become a Miss World candidate, much to the derision of some of her faith.

That is integration. To her, I say, "Go get it girl. Live your dreams. Be a leader for your times."

[thenodrog]

To me, there's no difference between "Britishness" and "indigionousness". They mean that you are of where you live.

When you have an outside influence trying to impose their background on the locals, then there's bound to be friction.

If you move to an area then, you "do as the Romans do".

Whilst I'd agree that the locals should (to some extent) cut the newbies some slack, the newbies should be looking to be like the locals.

As an aside, I note that a Blackburn born girl of Islamic heritage is wanting to become a Miss World candidate, much to the derision of some of her faith.

That is integration. To her, I say, "Go get it girl. Live your dreams. Be a leader for your times."

She'll get in serious bother I'd imagine.

However I do find a refreshingly honest attitude amongst you Aussies and your leaders towards immigrants. I mean that, but it does become rather skewed when one takes into account that on a historical timeline you haven't been down there for 5 minutes and I doubt very few of you will go walkabout, eat wichitty grubs or do any dreamtime like your own 'Romans'.

[thenodrog]

I didn't say that, I said people have confused ideas about britishness and indigiounousness if that's even a word? Integration on the whole has been a healthy thing there will always be exceptions to the rule. I quite simply don't see what there is to be scared of. Some of it it can only come down to a lack of education and understanding

Exactly and thats the big point, it's education or rather indoctrination of the Q'uran from virtually the cradle thats the cause. Believe me linganzi integration was going along just fine before all that post school islamic brainwashing started and provided the wedge that has been continually driven further in over the years.

[jim mk2]

However I do find a refreshingly honest attitude amongst you Aussies and your leaders towards immigrants. I

Fell off my chair laughing at that one.

[Al]

Al, as I mentioned before... the blessing said over the meal is similar to Christians saying grace before meals. I honestly don't see why you would be bothered by what is being said, given that it is simply a respectful way of saying "thank you" to the animal for sacrificing its life in order to sustain others.

I think people are getting way too picky with this sort of thing, in my opinion you either don't care what meat you eat as long as it's delicious, you believe in animal rights but are unwilling to give up meat so will choose to eat free range (which is labelled) or you don't eat meat at all.

It's the principle of giving way to a religion that I strongly dislike. Why should I have this meat foisted on to me if I don't want to accept it? In the same way that a muslim would not want to accept non halal meat I choose not to accept halal.

Is there something wrong with that logic or like everything else does it only work one way?

[Guest linganzi]

Why do you dislike it so ?

[dave birch]

She'll get in serious bother I'd imagine.

However I do find a refreshingly honest attitude amongst you Aussies and your leaders towards immigrants. I mean that, but it does become rather skewed when one takes into account that on a historical timeline you haven't been down there for 5 minutes and I doubt very few of you will go walkabout, eat wichitty grubs or do any dreamtime like your own 'Romans'.

Not wanting to take the thread further off topic, Theno, but you'd be surprised at the number of people that respect aboriginal heritage here.

For example, the number that don't walk on Uluru, those that don't take alcohol into certain areas, the number that do eat "bush tucker". They do it out of respect for the original owners.

Why do you dislike it so ?

Linganzi, I'd suggest that it is something being imposed from outside on someone living in his own country. IMO.

[Guest linganzi]

That's the reason he hates an entire religion?

Predominantly a peaceful loving religion.

There are idiots and extremes in every case.

Live and let live, that would be a start, its heath for the spirit to eat halal, break bread with your Muslim brothers

I must stress I'm indifferent to all religions

[SouthAussieRover]

Fell off my chair laughing at that one.

I fell off my chair laughing at the fact that your name has been reduced to #.

[Al]

That's the reason he hates an entire religion? 'DISLIKES'. YES THAT ABOUT SUMS IT UP.

Predominantly a peaceful loving religion. 9-11

There are idiots and extremes in every case. 9-11 SHOW ME THE CHRISTIAN EQIVALENT. DON'T QUOTE CRUSADES. THAT IS HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO.

Live and let live, that would be a start, its heath for the spirit to eat halal, break bread with your Muslim brothers. WILL THEY EAT FARMER'S MEAT WITH THEIR CHRISTIAN BROTHERS? WILL THEY HELL.

I must stress I'm indifferent to all religions

[Guest linganzi]

9-11 is a real extreme as you surely well know and is far detached to the true principles of Islam

The rc church has some pretty dark issues relating to paedos and the aids epidemic

A Muslim can't eat non blessed meat it makes no difference what I eat so it does me no harm to respect their faith

[Miker]

It's the principle of giving way to a religion that I strongly dislike. Why should I have this meat foisted on to me if I don't want to accept it? In the same way that a muslim would not want to accept non halal meat I choose not to accept halal.

Is there something wrong with that logic or like everything else does it only work one way?

There is nothing wrong with that logic. The reason a Muslim doesn't accept non-Halal meat is because it doesn't fit under their strict guidelines for food. If Halal meat doesn't fall under your strict guidelines then don't eat it either. I just think it doesn't serve any purpose to say "Well if you're not eating my food, then I'm not eating your food".

Let's put it this way, in an ideal world, everyone would be agreeable with each other and have the same views about everything. Unfortunately, that's never true and I shudder to think what it would be like if it was. Individuality is a good thing, and it's your choice what you do with life, as long as you're not infringing on someone else to live theirs.

I eat meat, but my girlfriend is vegetarian. We still sit down and "break bread" together. When we cook food, I'll often have to settle for vegetarian if we don't cook the meat separately. I'm ok with that because I can still eat meat, but I understand that she can't, so I'm not going to infringe on her right to not eat meat. As an omnivore, whether we make salad or steak, I can eat both, but she can't. So we make a compromise. With most things in life, you have to make them work and compromise to achieve it. You can't always have your way. Me not eating meat would be the most sensible compromise in this situation.

[Al]

9-11 is a real extreme as you surely well know and is far detached to the true principles of Islam

The rc church has some pretty dark issues relating to paedos and the aids epidemic

A Muslim can't eat non blessed meat it makes no difference what I eat so it does me no harm to respect their faith

Your arguments are getting weaker as you go along.

After 9-11 there were huge celebrations by muslims all over the world, not least in Blackburn. Not that far detached then?

What has the Catholic church got to do with anything.

A muslim won't eat my meat I don't want to eat his meat. Our choices. He wants to know it's halal. I want to know it isn't. What's unreasonable about that?

Incidentally I have never eaten a kebab or a curry from a muslim owned takaway. I like Chinese curry and I don't believe that they use halal meat. If they do it should be labelled as such.

[Guest linganzi]

No when I think about it you are right , all. The Muslims I know celebrate 9-11

Miker put it well but I'm doubting you would really understand.

You might enjoy life a little more without such an aggressive outlook

[Miker]

So, Langanzi, "Britishness" is not worth defending?

Now, I'm no supporter of anyone wanting to use violence as a means to an end, but, when the heritage of a couple of thousand years is changed in decades, then there's a problem.

Not one that needs violence, but one that needs to be examined.

When people in their own country feel threatened by some "outside influence" the locals do have a point.

Integration is the name of the game. If you can't integrate, why bother emigrating in the first place?

Immigration is essentially passive conquest or colonisation. Every kebab or curry place that opens up in your town is a little flag being hoisted up by the original nation of the owner. But hang on, if you look around, it's not just the Indians and the Arabs that are taking over tiny parts of Britain. Those same KFCs, McDonalds, Burger Kings etc. that we're talking about are American. American culture has pervaded every corner of the globe. To paraphrase a Rammstein song, "We're all living in America. Coca-Cola and wunderbras". It's not just America though, but every culture in the world. Are the clothes you're wearing made in England or China? Likewise, British culture has invaded other places as well, especially the places it used to have as colonies. This is what I mean when I talk about us shifting to a global identity.

It's not that "Britishness" is not worth defending, but the fact that it shouldn't need defending. The British values that matter will persist, people will keep them because they're good values. If you see what's happening in most Muslim countries today, you'll see riots are occuring because the people are demanding Western values. I have some faith in people in that sense, that as long as values are good and sensible then they will remain and people will fight for them. For those reasons I don't see this "outside influence" as a threat to Britishness, then again... I'm not sure what you define as "Britishness", as I'm sure different people would define it to me in different ways.

[sparkspakespoke]

Your arguments are getting weaker as you go along.

After 9-11 there were huge celebrations by muslims all over the world, not least in Blackburn. Not that far detached then?

What has the Catholic church got to do with anything.

A muslim won't eat my meat I don't want to eat his meat. Our choices. He wants to know it's halal. I want to know it isn't. What's unreasonable about that?

Incidentally I have never eaten a kebab or a curry from a muslim owned takaway. I like Chinese curry and I don't believe that they use halal meat. If they do it should be labelled as such.

Lot of fear driven ignorance in this post. I strongly disagree with your views on muslims who I have found to be very peaceful people in the main and much less likely to ram their beliefs down your throat than catholics.

That said, you are quite right you should not be forced to adhere to their beliefs by not being given a choice about eating their meat.

In this mixed up world we live in the last thing we need is anyone being forced to follow someone else's religious rules or rituals. Live and let live. Or each to their own is the only way forward.

[Miker]

A muslim won't eat my meat I don't want to eat his meat. Our choices. He wants to know it's halal. I want to know it isn't. What's unreasonable about that?

Incidentally I have never eaten a kebab or a curry from a muslim owned takaway. I like Chinese curry and I don't believe that they use halal meat. If they do it should be labelled as such.

What's Chinese curry?

As far as I know, most restaurants and take away places in Australia have signs specifying if they are kosher or halal. I have no idea about England. If it's not specified and it's a big concern for you, then have you tried asking?

[jim mk2]

If you see what's happening in most Muslim countries today, you'll see riots are occuring because the people are demanding Western values.

If by "values" you mean morals and public behaviour I don't think this is true. The uprisings in the Middle East and North Africa appear to me to be a cry for western-type freedom and democracy rather than western "values". Many traditional Asian familes living here rightly look on in horror at some of the so-called "values" in modern Britain.

[Al]

No when I think about it you are right , all. The Muslims I know celebrate 9-11

Miker put it well but I'm doubting you would really understand.

You might enjoy life a little more without such an aggressive outlook

Maybe the muslims would too if they accepted that they had come to Britain and should integrate into the British way of life instead of trying to force the indidginous population to change to their ways.

[Al]

What's Chinese curry?

As far as I know, most restaurants and take away places in Australia have signs specifying if they are kosher or halal. I have no idea about England. If it's not specified and it's a big concern for you, then have you tried asking?

It's a curry in a Chinese restaurant or takaway and is a different flavour to Indian ones. Maybe you don't have them in Oz.

That's a good suggestion of yours. If enough people asked before booking a meal at a restaurant or ordering one at a takeaway the owners might get the idea. In actual fact probably a lot of them have no idea but I still say halal meat should be labelled as such. Surely that would be helpful to muslims too.