[Archived] Arsenal V Blackburn Rovers 2 April 2011

[den]

If you are going to copy and paste Den do it properly hey? You stated TWICE that Sam may have got something out of the game yesterday, based on what I dont know, a sixth sense, premonitions maybe? I then replied back and gave the state that Sam has gotten precisely ZERO points from 10 away games against the top 4, this fact over TWO years makes me think he would have gotten zero points yesterday.

imy, one last time. If you read my view of the game, you will see that I gave Kean credit for the team selection and his tactics yesterday. Kean got his plans, for once, spot on. I also said that Arsenal were well below their usual standards.

I then tried to point out to people who were using this result as a dig at Allardyce's record against the top four, that we don't know how Sam's team would have done against the same Arsenal outfit yesterday. i.e. "a well below par Arsenal". Absolutely, perfectly reasonable viewpoint.

Somehow, that comes across to you as an Allardyce tinted view. Following your recent posts denying that Kean has taken us nearer relegation than we were under Sam, I know very well whose nose the tinted glasses are sitting on.

[Roversider]

Kean should only get credit if he has improved our league position from when he took over.

If we are any lower then he has regressed the team.

To hail him as the messiah for merely avoiding relgation would be a joke.

Who is hailing him as a messiah?

Let me know which Rovers manager since Dalglish fits that category, maybe Hughes two thirds through his time, not at the start, not at the end (I was at St. Andrews for his last game where he was inept in terms of tactics and selection).

Kean has a long way to go but I refuse to condemn him because of any preset ideas.

By the way, the press have been very favourable to Kean today in respect of the Arsenal game.

In the current league there are plenty of other better financed, more experienced managers, doing worse than Kean.

[imy9]

imy, one last time. If you read my view of the game, you will see that I gave Kean credit for the team selection and his tactics yesterday. Kean got his plans, for once, spot on. I also said that Arsenal were well below their usual standards.

I then tried to point out to people who were using this result as a dig at Allardyce's record against the top four, that we don't know how Sam's team would have done against the same Arsenal outfit yesterday. i.e. "a well below par Arsenal". Absolutely, perfectly reasonable viewpoint.

Somehow, that comes across to you as an Allardyce tinted view. Following your recent posts denying that Kean has taken us nearer relegation than we were under Sam, I know very well whose nose the tinted glasses are sitting on.

No actually I would argue that this is not a reasonable argument. Every time Kean has dropped points against Blackpool or another relegation rival "Sam's record against the bottom teams" is brought up.

Kean gets a point against a Top 4 team and suddenly "we don't know how Sam's team would have done against the same Arsenal outfit yesterday" ...um yes we do (based on the same logic) we would have lost... as have done TEN times out of TEN, again I will ask the same question, what do you base your "reasonable" viewpoint on? Obviously not facts.

The second bit I have highlighted, I am confused can you clarify as I have said no such thing, this would be the SECOND time you have attached a quote to and it is incorrect Den.

[den]

Kean gets a point against a Top 4 team and suddenly "we don't know how Sam's team would have done against the same Arsenal outfit yesterday" ...um yes we do (based on the same logic) we would have lost... as have done TEN times out of TEN.

Err, yes imy. OK. Nothing else to add really.

[den]

Following your recent posts denying that Kean has taken us nearer relegation than we were under Sam, I know very well whose nose the tinted glasses are sitting on.

The second bit I have highlighted, I am confused can you clarify as I have said no such thing, this would be the SECOND time you have attached a quote to and it is incorrect Den.

Blimey imy. 4 days ago:

"About position in the league, 10th-15th is roughly where we were going to end up this season, still looking that way now,"

My link

[martonrover]

No actually I would argue that this is not a reasonable argument. Every time Kean has dropped points against Blackpool or another relegation rival "Sam's record against the bottom teams" is brought up.

Kean gets a point against a Top 4 team and suddenly "we don't know how Sam's team would have done against the same Arsenal outfit yesterday" ...um yes we do (based on the same logic) we would have lost... as have done TEN times out of TEN, again I will ask the same question, what do you base your "reasonable" viewpoint on? Obviously not facts.

The second bit I have highlighted, I am confused can you clarify as I have said no such thing, this would be the SECOND time you have attached a quote to and it is incorrect Den.

Very good result yesterday and a solid rearguard action. However, let's not get carried away. We haven't won since January and next week presents a different challenge, i.e. to go out and win a game we need to win.

No point in drawing at Arsenal if we don't beat Brum, which is exactly the kind of game we won under S.A.

[imy9]

Blimey imy. 4 days ago:

"About position in the league, 10th-15th is roughly where we were going to end up this season, still looking that way now,"

My link

We are currently 14th, FOUR points off TENTH, I thought start of the season under Sam we would be between 10th and 15th, did you realise how tight the league was going to be this year- most of the country didnt, how have you got this:

denying that Kean has taken us nearer relegation than we were under Sam from my quote

Arguing that results prove that Kean is doing a better job than Sam hardly works does it. Another pearl that you hurled my way, which is not what I said at all, age catching up you mate

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

I didn't make anything up. Kean said from the very beginning he wanted the job. I can find quotes if you really want me to.

Im sure he wanted the job, he wouldnt be in it if he didn't want it. That isnt contentious. Its the idea that he shoved people out of the way and got various 3rd parties to get him the job that i was referring to. Not saying that he didn't but none of us know so there's little point in stating it as fact.

[cn174]

We are currently 14th, FOUR points off TENTH,

And THREE points off TWENTIETH.

[92er]

And THREE points off TWENTIETH.

And if we'd conceded 4 more goals we would be 16th.

[AggyBlue]

Im sure he wanted the job, he wouldnt be in it if he didn't want it. That isnt contentious. Its the idea that he shoved people out of the way and got various 3rd parties to get him the job that i was referring to. Not saying that he didn't but none of us know so there's little point in stating it as fact.

Word goes around, staff talk. Perhaps you don't hear anything all the way down there.

By the way, do you get to any games?

[47er]

We are currently 14th, FOUR points off TENTH, I thought start of the season under Sam we would be between 10th and 15th, did you realise how tight the league was going to be this year- most of the country didnt, how have you got this:

denying that Kean has taken us nearer relegation than we were under Sam from my quote

Arguing that results prove that Kean is doing a better job than Sam hardly works does it. Another pearl that you hurled my way, which is not what I said at all, age catching up you mate

Imy--I'm getting bored with all this." Every post you make, every stance you take' is pro-Venkys and pro-Kean. Most of the time it seems for the sake of it. Its unrealistic to simply focus on any good bits you can find and ignore the much more obvious and plentiful bad ones.

We may escape relegation,just, or we may well go down. No argument you can ever come up with will convince me that exchanging Kean for Sam was something the owners should have done.

We are in real danger for no good reason. That's the beginning and the end of it for me.

Now, back to the topic! Good point yesterday. Let's hope we can build on it.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Word goes around, staff talk. Perhaps you don't hear anything all the way down there.

By the way, do you get to any games?

Couple of home games a year plus as many of the london away fixtures as I can. Its not much but its the best I can do.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Couple of home games a year plus as many of the london away fixtures as I can. Its not much but its the best I can do.

A gracious but unnecessary response to a chronically poor post.

[philipl]

Well done den, makes a change from imy fighting in the hen house with me!

I don't know about which results would have been different and whether we would have been howling in rage at the lack of entertainment but we'd certainly have picked up at least 5 more points by now under Sam than we have with Kean and been in the top half of the table.

In fact like last season we would be past the 40 points marl by now under Sam.

But then our owners are big on wasting their money.

[Brfcrule1]

I thought I got the wrong thread thought this was the thread about our excellent point over the gunners not our relegation scrap I have to say well done to all 11 players & 10 at the end I must admit when I watched the N'Zonzi challenge at first thought it looked bad but after watching it again that is never a red cardhis feet never left the ground & it was never 2 footed & thought it was harsh but special praise must go to the lads at the back Samba,Nelsen were immense & Superman jones in midfield was immense will make a huge difference to our survival hopes & special praise must go to Junior Hoilett every opportunity he ran the Arsenal defence ragged & at one point should have earned a penalty but all in all after we went down to 10 men our defence was absolutely immense & deserve great credit for achieving this point now hopefully with a good week and a bumper home crowd 3 points against 'Big Club' will do us nicely & no excuses people of Blackburn tickets are reduced & even me from sunny old London will be there to cheer the lads on!.

[USABlue]

And if we'd conceded 4 more goals we would be 16th.

And if the penalty against Fulham...........if if bloody if

[PAFELL]

Just to reiterate my initial point which you seem to have missed.

Kean is doing a decent job CONSIDERING THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

Arguably the tightest relegation scrap ever. Thrown into the job midseason. Lack of experience at this level. First time dealt with a transfer window.

Has he done well? Not by the standards of a proven premiership manager, no. But that was never my point. Kean has done ok when you factor in the situation he found himself in. If he keeps us up he'll have done a very good job.

I see where you are coming from. For an inexperienced person / manager then you have to say ok he has done the best he could. My hope is if we are to keep him, that he becomes a fast learner. He set the team up right at arsenal, I hope that is because he has learnt one or two lessons. We all know he is not an experienced pre manager. But venkys took a risk - an unneeded risk in appointing him. But as in all jobs, we all have to start somewhere.

[imy9]

47er and Phillip- instead of jumping on the bandwagon and doing the obvious 'ah it's a pro Venkys/ anti Sam post' why not try to read the post first?

Sam was brought up by Den not me, a number of times in a ridiculous 'he may have got a point yesterday, why I don't know' point, I have been misquoted twice which is the issue I have, other than that it's the Arsenal thread and it was a great point yesterday, so put your anti Venkys pom poms and banners down for the time being

47er- "No argument you can ever come up with will convince me that exchanging Kean for Sam was something the owners should have done."

As I have said already try reading what I have said.

[LeChuck]

Im sure he wanted the job, he wouldnt be in it if he didn't want it. That isnt contentious. Its the idea that he shoved people out of the way and got various 3rd parties to get him the job that i was referring to. Not saying that he didn't but none of us know so there's little point in stating it as fact.

The 'shoving people out of the way' thing was metaphorical, I was using the same thinking as your 'thrown in' comment I quoted.

I was emphasising how much he wanted the job, I didn't literally mean he shoved people to get there.

The point is that I don't see how you can have sympathy for the situation he was in as he 100% wanted that job. It's not like he was an unwilling caretaker trying to steady the ship. Part of the difficult circumstances is that we have no PL experience in the coaching staff, he's made it harder on himself by not bringing appropriate help. There is nothing to feel sorry for him about.

[47er]

47er and Phillip- instead of jumping on the bandwagon and doing the obvious 'ah it's a pro Venkys/ anti Sam post' why not try to read the post first?

Sam was brought up by Den not me, a number of times in a ridiculous 'he may have got a point yesterday, why I don't know' point, I have been misquoted twice which is the issue I have, other than that it's the Arsenal thread and it was a great point yesterday, so put your anti Venkys pom poms and banners down for the time being

47er- "No argument you can ever come up with will convince me that exchanging Kean for Sam was something the owners should have done."

As I have said already try reading what I have said.

Bit patronising here Imy. You write post after post after post, all with basically the same message dispersed on various threads, then tell us we haven't read it! I have read it and understood it over and over.

All your posts are pro-Venkys! Occasionally I remind you of it but you just keep on keeping on.

[imy9]

I'm not trying to be patronising but you and a few others seem to pounce on me on every thread, I was talking to someone about a topic related to Arsenal and then you throw the whole Pro Venkys thing my way.

When I say consistently that Kean should be fired, this is pro what? When I say consistently that sam was a good manager and should not have been sacked this is pro what? So you obviously have not read what I have been writing! Anyway I will no longer provide an opinion about Kean, Venkys or Anderson until anything changes, as there is clearly enough balance on the MB

[yeti-dog]

Well done den, makes a change from imy fighting in the hen house with me!

I don't know about which results would have been different and whether we would have been howling in rage at the lack of entertainment but we'd certainly have picked up at least 5 more points by now under Sam than we have with Kean and been in the top half of the table.

In fact like last season we would be past the 40 points marl by now under Sam.

But then our owners are big on wasting their money.

Philip,I know you like to portray a sense of omnipotence but if you truly have the gift of knowing,with absolue certainty, how a parallel reality would have played out then you're even more 'special'than I thought...

[Jimmy612]

Its the idea that he shoved people out of the way and got various 3rd parties to get him the job that i was referring to. Not saying that he didn't but none of us know so there's little point in stating it as fact.

He certainly didn't get the job on merit. He is a Kentaro client and JA was hugely influential in the appointment of our next manager.

I would assume that Venkys knew absolutely nothing about Steve Kean before or after buying BRFC (they hadn't even met the players never mind the first team coach). Infact these people know nothing about football, difficult to imagine they wouldnt take advice from a sneaky @#/? like JA, especially when they weren't seem to be taking any notice of JW.

Like you say, no-one knows exactly what happened, but i would put money on the fact that JA was trying to get his client a better paid job, and his influence over Venkys would have affected their choice in manager.

A non-sensical appointment such as this one was always going to raise eyebrows

[Gav]

I'm not trying to be patronising but you and a few others seem to pounce on me on every thread, I was talking to someone about a topic related to Arsenal and then you throw the whole Pro Venkys thing my way.

When I say consistently that Kean should be fired, this is pro what? When I say consistently that sam was a good manager and should not have been sacked this is pro what? So you obviously have not read what I have been writing! Anyway I will no longer provide an opinion about Kean, Venkys or Anderson until anything changes, as there is clearly enough balance on the MB

Join the silent majority Imy, its just not worth arguing your point anymore on here, because the usual suspects will just chase you around the site destroying every thread you post on.

Sit back, smile, safe in the knowledge you’re not alone