[Archived] NFL 2011 --lockout season

[ABBEY]

Like I said classless !!

Man I'm I'll

[Jeru tha Damaja]

Haha, classless for me to have a snipe at the Broncos, but acceptable for you to continually knock the Lions?

For the most part we have one player whose attitude you don't like and because of that you admit to being happy about us losing. That lacks class. At least when Tebow was winning I relented and gave him some credit, yet I can't remember any mention of Detroit form you except to call them dirty or classless, which is massively unfair given the seasons that Stafford, Johnson and to some extent Titus Young had. So since we're gonna behave like children and refuse to give praise to anyone we don't support I'll stick to my opinion that in a fair system the Broncos wouldn't even have made the play-offs.

[T4E]

But we did, and then we beat the Steelers :-)

[ABBEY]

Its too easy pal !! Pmsl

[Smithyster]

I'm not entirely sure how long Tebow will last as a good QB, but he sure is hard to deal with. I've only been following for a couple of years, so I don't know as much as some of you, but I can see why people say Tebow isn't any good. Some of his throws are shocking and you wander how he even made the position, and then the Broncos pull out that OT play.

I like the guy, I have nothing against him or the Broncos but you would think at some point other teams will stop his running game and he will be left with his arm, which is very up and down. Thomas is looking like a great talent in the making too.

My Playoff Challenge Team is Brees, Rice, Sproles, Nelson, Colston, Graham, Kasay and the Steelers (I expected much more!)

[CaliRoverNYC]

First let me say the Broncos deserved to win, good teams win even when the calls don't go their way. That said when his career is all over Tebow will be an average QB and thats it. Yes he threw for 316 against the Steelers but it was against man to man coverage with virtually no pressure of the pocket. He will see more complex coverage as his career gets older and in a copy cat league it will make his job much more difficult.(Big Ben won his first 15 NFL games against simple coverage schemes) My biggest problem with Tebow is that he gets all the credit from the media. Tim Tebow didn't beat the Pittsburgh Steelers, Coach Fox and the Denver Broncos did.

If Tebow can improve his accuracy he can be an average NFL passer, if he does that he has already shown he's just about as tuff to bring down as Big Ben, and that is IMO Ben's biggest asset, he might be able to use that ability to extend his career, but running QB's don't last in this league and the option won't work week in week out so for Tebow to make it he still has some adapting to do, and that adapting might take away some of his best gifts such as running the football. For every good game he has, he has a bad one.

That said, I didn't think the Broncos could beat the Stillers w/ Tebow at QB and I was wrong so maybe I'll be wrong again and Tebow can have a long productive career as a running QB, I just don't think it will happen... and neither does Elway.

Abbey, Neil, congrats I'll be rooting for you guys against the Pats though, not sure how much I'll watch as it is very difficult for me to watch the NFL after the Steelers go out.

***Just looked it up and happy to see that the Stillers will get another crack and the Broncos next season at Mile High***

[CaliRoverNYC]

Give it a week.

The Steelers weren't at their best and Big Ben was playing virtually crippled most of the game. See how you do up in Foxborough.

Even better idea, come play in the NFC North. Tebow would never make the play-offs in that division. I have to wonder why the Lions weren't named AFC West winners; strolled to victory at Mile High, memorable win at the Raiders, crushed the Chargers and annihilated the Chiefs, yet a flawed system gives an 8-8 team the chance to get lucky. But luck doesn't last, quality does.

Dude you gotta let Broncos fans enjoy the win, You should be thrilled that the Lions made the playoffs, in fact I commend you for supporting them, ive got friends in Detroit that don't have that much heart. One day the Lions will make the playoffs and beat a team that many don't even think they deserve to play, hopefully someone will have the class to let you enjoy it.

[ABBEY]

+1

[Jeru tha Damaja]

Dude you gotta let Broncos fans enjoy the win, You should be thrilled that the Lions made the playoffs, in fact I commend you for supporting them, ive got friends in Detroit that don't have that much heart. One day the Lions will make the playoffs and beat a team that many don't even think they deserve to play, hopefully someone will have the class to let you enjoy it.

But it seems to be the opinion of certain people that the Lions don't deserve to play at all, and I get to read about it every time anything remotely involving the team is mentioned round here.

Truth is, if it wasn't for the stick Detroit gets I'd find it easier to give the Broncos their due. Plus, even with what I have said about the team, I gave Tebow credit when he was getting it done every week and I never tried to take anything away from their defence, which was outstanding.

The hype around Tebow annoys me, though. I've got nothing against him as a person, quite the opposite, I think the way he conducts himself is a great example. But that doesn't mean he gets a free ride on the pitch, and he still hasn't proven himself to be half the player people make him out to be.

[Eddie]

I think the Lions are an average team that rode two hot streaks. Eventually they will be good, but they are a draft and some good free agent signings away from becoming a genuine playoff team. The young core is there, but it isn't enough yet.

It's great for the Broncos that they won, but I can't help but think that winning this weekend would be bad for the team in the long run. Tebow simply isn't the answer, but he may leave the Broncos with no option but to stick with him if he continues to be successful this year.

I do expect the Patriots to destroy them on Saturday and I'll stick with my view that he won't be starting at the end of the next year and may well be without a team within the next couple of years.

[T4E]

The hype around Tebow annoys me, though. I've got nothing against him as a person, quite the opposite, I think the way he conducts himself is a great example. But that doesn't mean he gets a free ride on the pitch, and he still hasn't proven himself to be half the player people make him out to be.

I hear this a lot, and I'm not sure its the case at all. I don't think there's many people out there who think Tebow is great. Most people accept he has some great skills, but is also lacking in other areas. However the hype and the discussion about him seem to be people finding it hilarious that he keeps winning - in increasingly ridiculous circumstances - and it makes a very interesting talking point.

From a Broncos fan point of view, we're clinging to every shred of hope we get in terms of him evolving in to a consistently effective NFL QB. The Cutler detour aside its been a long time since the Broncos have had anyone under centre that we could believe in. Tebow has such interesting skills that if he could develop the poorer sides of his game he would be a huge weapon. We live in hope.

[Eddie]

He hasn't proven himself. Sunday was by far and away his best performance, but it stands alone as a game where he has been a threat through the air and on the ground. He has produced some game-winning drives, but that was the first time that he produced 60 minutes of good football.

On top of that he is essentially a rookie and the second year is always the test. If he makes a step up like Stafford it's great, or he could regress like Bradford and go from looking like a top 15 QB that would run the franchise for years to being at risk of losing his starting job.

As for the Lions, it was just a year too soon. They have a great young core, but they are a draft and some good free agent signings away from being a genuine playoff team.

The Patriots will crush the Broncos this week and we can all go back to talking about real football and not Tebow-mania. I'm not a Pats fan, but I really do hope that Brady shows up at his clinical best and shows everyone what a QB is supposed to be able to do.

[ABBEY]

That Stafford chap Eddie is that the one that just lost and tim gadgy the one that won??

I think we will get a tonking but it's been a proud season for every bronco!!!

[T4E]

He hasn't proven himself.

My point wasnt that he has proven himself, my point was that I don't think anyone really thinks he's as great as Jeru laments.

That Stafford chap Eddie is that the one that just lost and tim gadgy the one that won??

I think we will get a tonking but it's been a proud season for every bronco!!!

You have to be fair though Abs, he threw for 5000 yards. If that was Tebow and we'd gone out at the WC round we'd be very excited about next season and rightly so.

Although to be fair I think my Grannycould have thrown for 1681 of those yards considering who he had to aim at.

[cn174]

You may have seen this already, but the fella who wrote the book 'Freakonomics' has been doing a mini-series, looking at the numbers and trends in NFL. I've seen a couple of them so far which have been good - appeals to my geek nature

Football Freakonomics

[Jeru tha Damaja]

Hard to say honestly where the Lions are. I don't think it's quite fair to say we just rode two hot streaks, because the only time our performances really dipped were when the injuries took hold. I know injuries are part of the game, but Leshoure in training camp and Best in week 6 meant we had no running game for most of the season, and the problems in our secondary got so bad at one point that we had a linebacker playing safety and a wide-out playing cornerback.

Leshoure, Best, Delmas and, to some extent, one of Houston/Berry/Wright could have been the difference between 10-6 and 12-4 (49ers, Falcons, Saints and both Packers games all being ones that turned on one or two plays). For next season we need to get those guys healthy, we also need to get Avril and Tulloch re-signed as priorities (possibly Johnson since he's entering his contract year) and then we'll see what we can do in the draft. There's a few O-linemen who would be massive for us, might have a chance of a rushing attack if anyone threw a block once in a while, and just think what Stafford could do if he had time to throw.

While I'm on Stafford, just because he's got Megatron to throw to doesn't really take away from his season. This was his first full season and he's still only 23 (a year younger than Tebow). If we're judging QBs based on the weapons they have available then Drew Brees is in a pretty comfortable position since he's got a running game to take the pressure off him, Sproles can catch and guys like Graham, Colston, Henderson, Meachem and Moore might make a play or two over the course of a season. With Jennings, Driver, Nelson and Finley running routes Aaron Rodgers has a pretty strong receiving corps to make him look good (see Matt Flynn for evidence).

I'm not saying a great receiver doesn't boost a QBs numbers, but all the elite QBs have special weapons to throw to, it just happens that (imo) Johnson is the best in the game right now. Take him away and Stafford suffers, but not as much as Schaub if you remove Andre Johnson, not as much as Newton if you take away Steve Smith, and definitely not as much as Matt Cassel did when he didn't have Randy Moss to aim for any more. Plus, look at the guys who have top receivers and still can't cut it. Sanchez has Holmes and Burress, Rivers has Vincent Jackson, Matt Ryan has Julio Jones and Roddy White, the nobodies who take snaps for the Cardinals have Larry Fitzgerald, Romo has Bryant; end of the day only Romo came close to the season Stafford just had.

Abbey, the Broncos have gone further in the play-offs and that's great for them, but you can't tell me a home game with the Steelers wasn't an easier proposition than a trip to the Superdome. Elite QB, best passing attack in the game, 6th best rushing game and a tough home crowd. Or play in front of your fans, high enough to give the opposition altitude sickness, against a team struggling on the road, with a banged up QB, only two big weapons in the receiving corps and a declining rushing attack. I'm not saying it's easy to beat the Steelers, but it's not as difficult as taking on the Saints.

If Denver want to beat the Patriots then it's all about stopping Brady, not what Tebow does. It wouldn't matter if Tebow had the game of his life, he still couldn't hang with Brady if he's allowed to have his way, so Von Miller needs to come in hot again and same goes for Dumervil and Bailey. A shootout only ends one way.

Sam Bradford might have a chance if the Rams had a consistent coaching set-up for him to work with, more than one receiver who could catch and an O-line that wasn't hell-bent on putting their franchise QB in hospital.

[Eddie]

My point wasnt that he has proven himself, my point was that I don't think anyone really thinks he's as great as Jeru laments.

You have to be fair though Abs, he threw for 5000 yards. If that was Tebow and we'd gone out at the WC round we'd be very excited about next season and rightly so.

Although to be fair I think my Grannycould have thrown for 1681 of those yards considering who he had to aim at.

But beyond that one receiver he doesn't have much to aim at and they have no running game. Not only that, if you are going to use the 'clutch' argument with Tebow then you also have to appreciate how good Stafford was in the final few weeks when the Lions really needed wins.

He may develop into an elite quarterback, but Tebow certainly won't.

[ABBEY]

Blah blah blah

[T4E]

But beyond that one receiver he doesn't have much to aim at and they have no running game. Not only that, if you are going to use the 'clutch' argument with Tebow then you also have to appreciate how good Stafford was in the final few weeks when the Lions really needed wins.

He may develop into an elite quarterback, but Tebow certainly won't.

Getting boring now Eddie - I gave Stafford credit and have done before.

As far as Tebow goes - you've written him off loads of times and been wrong enough of them.

[RibbleValleyRover]

[ABBEY]

EDDIE = athiest!!!

[Jeru tha Damaja]

As amusing as some people might find that video, I would think Tebow would be embarrassed at the blasphemy committed in his name.

Also, just because somebody isn't a Tebow fan doesn't mean they're atheist and joking or not it's not right to say it.

[ABBEY]

Jesus wept!! Grow a pair !

[T4E]

Jesus wept!!

[CaliRoverNYC]

Jesus might believe but Elway doubts, and we all know which one has more pull in Denver.

I hope u guys pull off the victory over the Pats but if you do you might make the same mistakes the Jets did and falsely believe you have a franchise QB, Then again Elway might want a pocket passer either way.