[Archived] Blackburn Rovers v Birmingham City 9th April 2011

[Steve Moss]

  On 09/04/2011 at 21:23, patrickvalery said:

Come on Steve! Keep the faith man! It wouldn't surprise me to see us getting a few more unexpected points in games like that. The ones when the pressure is off a little because we're not expected to get anything.

Then again i could just be clinging to any hope available. I think i'm rapidly running out of options!!

I have tons of hope. The problem is that everytime I see or hear Kean, it begins to evaporate. He's a good talker. I'd rather have a good manager.

  On 09/04/2011 at 21:27, Topman said:

Well, we expected nothing against Arsenal and 3pts against Brum.

So we're only 1pt worse off.

We also dropped 2 against our home match against Blackpool. So we're down 3 from where we should be on the last 3 matches.

Having said that, I think we're good enough to knick a few more points here and there. See Patrick, I am an optimist! The problem as I see it is that if we stay up, it will be by the skin of our teeth, which is what I think we'll do (I hope).

If I were Venkys, I'd arrange a meeting with Kean in a Middle Eastern country, accuse him of robbing us of a mid-table season (and the millions that come with it) and have him flogged. It won't change anything but I would feel a whole lot better.

[Anti-Dingle-Brigade]

  On 09/04/2011 at 22:47, Andy said:

There was a blatent foul in the build-up and if anyone wants to make excuses for the result, then that's what they want to look at.

In terms of offside Den - the ball must be played forward for offside to be technically possible.

If you play a sideways pass to somebody in an offside position, they are not offside.

They can happily run back to retrieve the ball and there is no offence.

You are only offside if the ball is played forward.

Imagine Santa is 10 yards offside, Pedersen smashes it along the half way line, Santa runs back, picks it up and runs off with it. If Santa was offside when the ball was played, he's offside. So the ball direction doesn't matter. The position of the offender at the time of passing (whichever direction that is) is what matters.

[den]

  On 09/04/2011 at 22:47, Andy said:

In terms of offside Den - the ball must be played forward for offside to be technically possible.

If you play a sideways pass to somebody in an offside position, they are not offside.

They can happily run back to retrieve the ball and there is no offence.

You are only offside if the ball is played forward.

Garbage Andy. Players can't come back from an offside position and get involved with play.

[Andy]

  On 09/04/2011 at 22:49, Anti-Dingle-Brigade said:

Imagine Santa is 10 yards offside, Pedersen smashes it along the half way line, Santa runs back, picks it up and runs off with it. If Santa was offside when the ball was played, he's offside. So the ball direction doesn't matter. The position of the offender at the time of passing (whichever direction that is) is what matters.

Hmmm...they're not the rules I've always known.

I'll read up on it in the morning and if I'm wrong, fair enough - but it's always been about the ball being played forward for offside to be possible.

[den]

  On 09/04/2011 at 22:49, Anti-Dingle-Brigade said:

Imagine Santa is 10 yards offside, Pedersen smashes it along the half way line, Santa runs back, picks it up and runs off with it. If Santa was offside when the ball was played, he's offside. So the ball direction doesn't matter. The position of the offender at the time of passing (whichever direction that is) is what matters.

You got it ADB.

[Kamy100]

Two crucial points dropped. We started off fairly well but didn't really threaten Birmingham on a consistent basis. They got a dodgy goal (J Jones clear pushed in the build up) and we get back into the game right on half time. I thought that would give us some momentum, but unfortunately the second half was very poor, we resorted to pumping balls upfield which played to Birmingham's strengths at the back. Roberts was extremely poor, Kean would've have been better of bringing on Mame Diouf, it was clear to see that Brum were troubled by Junior's pace and I feel sure that Diouf would've caused them more problems than Roberts did.

The positive is that the bottom three all lost and I am revising my points needed for survival from 41 points to 39 points. At the moment our goal difference is almost worth a point on many of our relegation rivals. However the bad news is that I don't know how/where we are going to get 4 points from, Everton will be flying next week after their result today so it is going to be really difficult to get anything against them. I think that our fate will be sealed one way or the other over 5 crucial days with home games against City (25th April) and Bolton (30th April).

[den]

Andy, you're getting confused here. You're assuming that if a ball is played square, or backwards then the recieving player is onside because he's behind the ball.

[BangkokRover]

The appointment of the Chairperson and next seasons pre season are MASSIVE for Rovers. Rovers need a strong experienced Chairperson who can drag the club forward. He or she should be able to suggest and get a good manager for Rovers and run a tight ship with a plan to take the club forward.

IF we stay up and IF Kean is still manager that is time lost for Rovers. We don't have the money of the big boys so we need a plan and we need to stick to it.

As people can see from the Rafa thread I made, Wenger only buys young players (Of course I am sure someone can find an example of him not) but in general he does and he improves them. This is the path that I think most Rovers fans what to see Rovers take. £10M a season on young good talent who can improve the squad and be sold at a profit to allow us to buy more young talent.

The way Rovers are set up and with Kean in charge there is no chance of that.

Cheers

BKR

[AggyBlue]

  On 09/04/2011 at 22:42, den said:

I didn't say he was Aggy. I'm just trying to explain that the direction the ball was played has nothing to do with it.

I haven't seen a replay, but if the Brum player had a foot in front of the ball when it was played, he was offside. If he didn't, he wasn't offside. Andy said the ball was played square, so he couldn't be offside - not true.

I'm not arguing, it's just that you said you hadn't seen it

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Gotta say I saw more reasons to be optmistic today than for a long time. For the first time in a while we looked organised. For most of the match people seemed to know what they should be doing at where. Jones (pick either) were superb & hopefully Nelsen will be fit for Everton so Jones P can go back to midfield. Unfortunately today was 3 points dropped - mainly due to inept refereeing. After watching the dirtiest side in the epl - hope big club go down.

[den]

  On 09/04/2011 at 22:56, AggyBlue said:

I'm not arguing, it's just that you said you hadn't seen it

Sorry if I come across as argumentative Aggy. No, I haven't seen it. It must have been close though, as the forward was almost stood on the goal line.

[Andy]

Fair enough, I'll have a read tomorrow and if I'm wrong, I'll hold my hand up.

In today's instance however, Bowyer was completely level with the ball when it was played and as such, cannot be offside.

[Tom]

Although I expect to lose next week picking up a point isn't out f the question, Everton have a load of players out and although they won comfortable they didn't play brilliantly.

There is less pressure away from home and everton arent playing for much.

[47er]

  On 09/04/2011 at 21:05, patrickvalery said:

I actually thought Kean was boxing clever when he refused to criticise the ref after the Fulham match. I thought his dignified response may have carried some weight with the referees in the next few games. However, as we have continued to suffer at the hands of every other official since that point, i was clearly wrong! But what can you do? If we make a song and dance about it then it sounds like sour grapes. It also sends a real sense of desperation to the players. Its a lose lose situation.

Don't make the mistake of blaming the ref for yet another failure to win. We are going backwards as a team. Full of commitment but no fluidity, no guile in the final 3rd and no end product. Since we always make a defensive blunder somewhere along the line, we give ourselves a mountain to climb.

[BangkokRover]

  On 09/04/2011 at 22:58, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Gotta say I saw more reasons to be optmistic today than for a long time. For the first time in a while we looked organised. For most of the match people seemed to know what they should be doing at where. Jones (pick either) were superb & hopefully Nelsen will be fit for Everton so Jones P can go back to midfield. Unfortunately today was 3 points dropped - mainly due to inept refereeing. After watching the dirtiest side in the epl - hope big club go down.

I think you mean 2 points dropped, or were we due to play play our It's a Knock Out Joker for a bonus point?

[den]

  On 09/04/2011 at 23:00, Andy said:

Fair enough, I'll have a read tomorrow and if I'm wrong, I'll hold my hand up.

In today's instance however, Bowyer was completely level with the ball when it was played and as such, cannot be offside.

Well that's OK. So we're back where we were then - he was onside.

[47er]

  On 09/04/2011 at 22:58, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Gotta say I saw more reasons to be optmistic today than for a long time. For the first time in a while we looked organised. For most of the match people seemed to know what they should be doing at where. Jones (pick either) were superb & hopefully Nelsen will be fit for Everton so Jones P can go back to midfield. Unfortunately today was 3 points dropped - mainly due to inept refereeing. After watching the dirtiest side in the epl - hope big club go down.

Mind-boggling.I think you're seeing the world through blue and white glasses.

As for Jones J, how many needless free-kicks does he have to give away before the manager ###### him? We were organised last week but today I thought the defence was shaky. As for going forward, only Hoilett threatened. Dunn improved in the second half but I'm amazed he got MOM.

How can you be optimistic after that? That was the "easiest" game we had left! Where's the 2 wins we need coming from?

[Al]

  On 09/04/2011 at 22:47, Andy said:

There was a blatent foul in the build-up and if anyone wants to make excuses for the result, then that's what they want to look at.

In terms of offside Den - the ball must be played forward for offside to be technically possible.

If you play a sideways pass to somebody in an offside position, they are not offside.

They can happily run back to retrieve the ball and there is no offence.

You are only offside if the ball is played forward.

That is absolute rubbish. If you are behond the second last player and behond the ball you are offside.

[Andy]

  On 09/04/2011 at 23:05, 47er said:

Don't make the mistake of blaming the ref for yet another failure to win. We are going backwards as a team. Full of commitment but no fluidity, no guile in the final 3rd and no end product. Since we always make a defensive blunder somewhere along the line, we give ourselves a mountain to climb.

I agree with this and this was kind of my original point before I took it off-topic with the 'offside' guff.

A lot has been made recently about referee decisions, when to focus on them completely overlooks our own deficiencies and downfalls.

Against Fulham, people say we were robbed by a late penalty, but in reality we had already conceded two weak goals (Robbo in particular would have been unhappy with both as both were saveable by his standards) and a stonewall penalty wasn't given literally just before the actual penalty was.

Against Blackpool, yes the penalty was soft but they should have been 4-0 by half time due to two disallowed goals and a beautiful free-kick from Adam (which was an undisputed foul by Jones on the edge of the box).

And today, we were poor. Poor lineup, poor tactics and poor substitutions - there was a foul in the build-up to their goal which wasn't given, but that doesn't mean that the referees are against us or that the FA are looking to secretly relegate us. It's indescribably crazy to think that either could genuinely be true.

We just weren't good enough in any of those matches and that's why we didn't win.

[beerwins]

At least we have found out the women on this board by having to explain the offside rule :lol:

Just kidding, but did we find out why Givet was'nt started at left back, if the rumours about him and Kalinic leaving before the game started.

Paramount that we have Olsson and Junior on the flanks to support the striker.

[47er]

  On 09/04/2011 at 18:20, tony gale said:

The teams below us in the league are better than us, that's the point.

Form is the all important thing at this stage of the season, and with the exception of Blackpool, everyone is in better form than us. Wigan, Wolves and West Ham have all won 2 out of their last 6. We haven't won in 9.

If we can't beat Blackpool or Birmingham at home, where do you suspect we might pick up a win? Maybe against City? Or away to Everton?

Don't forget Sunderland--only 3 points above us now and sinking like a stone. Pity in one way as they play nearly all of our relegation rivals

[47er]

  On 09/04/2011 at 16:32, imy9 said:

Is that the same as never getting a point at Arsenal? We can go and get a victory at West Ham, as we can against any team in the league. We have 35 points already and I have complete faith in us getting a result against Everton.

You are going to find it very hard to cope on the last day of the season.

[Al]

  On 09/04/2011 at 23:12, Andy said:

I agree with this and this was kind of my original point before I took it off-topic with the 'offside' guff.

A lot has been made recently about referee decisions, when to focus on them completely overlooks our own deficiencies and downfalls.

Against Fulham, people say we were robbed by a late penalty, but in reality we had already conceded two weak goals (Robbo in particular would have been unhappy with both as both were saveable by his standards) and a stonewall penalty wasn't given literally just before the actual penalty was.

Against Blackpool, yes the penalty was soft but they should have been 4-0 by half time due to two disallowed goals and a beautiful free-kick from Adam (which was an undisputed foul by Jones on the edge of the box).

And today, we were poor. Poor lineup, poor tactics and poor substitutions - there was a foul in the build-up to their goal which wasn't given, but that doesn't mean that the referees are against us or that the FA are looking to secretly relegate us. It's indescribably crazy to think that either could genuinely be true.

We just weren't good enough in any of those matches and that's why we didn't win.

Please tell us what it is like at the Turf these days.

[RIML]

Offside Rule - Simple English

You can make up your own mind whether it was on or off but I think this concludes that Andy is WRONG

  Quote

It is a common misconception that the ball must be played forward for an offside offense to be committed. This is incorrect however, as an offside offense is related to the position of the ball and the player receiving it rather than the direction it is played. If the player is in front of the ball when it is played and has not got at least two defending players closer to the defending goal line than they are, she or he is in an offside position.

Bowyer was in front of all our players (except Robbo) and just in front of Jerome too when the ball was played, it was a close call but according to the above he was just offside.

Yet another decision gone against us imo but saying that I think a draw was probably a fair result.

I've heard a couple of good comments about the Darwen End but what did everyone else think?

[rebelmswar]

Just looked at the table... thew up.