[Archived] Solar Panels

[Ewood Spark]

Today I officially became a supplier to the National Grid. Just had a 3kw system fitted to Chez Spark here in sunny Blackburn South. I've always had an interest in renewable technologies but could never justify the cost of installation. All that changed as of April 2010 when the government introduced a 'Feed-in-Tariff' by way of an incentive to meet it's carbon emission targets. In the past it would have taken you about 40 to 50 years to recoup your investment ... but now with the Feed-in-tariff it takes about 8 years. It works like this:-

1) For every unit (1kwh) of electricity you generate and use you no longer have to pay your utility company 14p.

2) For every unit of electricity you generate but don't use, and export to the grid, the utility company will pay you 3p.

3) The new Feed-in-tariff. For every unit of electricity you generate, whether you use it, or supply it to the grid, you will be payed 43p. This amount is indexed linked (it was 41p pre April 2011) and is guaranteed for 25 years.

It was great fun this afternoon watching the meter spin backwards!

[Stuart]

How did you get set up, ES?

[Ewood Spark]

How did you get set up, ES?

Have a look here. I can't speak highly enough of the job he has done. If you want to check the suitability of your property check the calculator via the 'prices' tab.

[thenodrog]

Today I officially became a supplier to the National Grid. Just had a 3kw system fitted to Chez Spark here in sunny Blackburn South. I've always had an interest in renewable technologies but could never justify the cost of installation. All that changed as of April 2010 when the government introduced a 'Feed-in-Tariff' by way of an incentive to meet it's carbon emission targets. In the past it would have taken you about 40 to 50 years to recoup your investment ... but now with the Feed-in-tariff it takes about 8 years. It works like this:-

1) For every unit (1kwh) of electricity you generate and use you no longer have to pay your utility company 14p.

2) For every unit of electricity you generate but don't use, and export to the grid, the utility company will pay you 3p.

3) The new Feed-in-tariff. For every unit of electricity you generate, whether you use it, or supply it to the grid, you will be payed 43p. This amount is indexed linked (it was 41p pre April 2011) and is guaranteed for 25 years.

It was great fun this afternoon watching the meter spin backwards!

Did it cost about £12-15k Neil?

I'm pondering between air / ground based heat pumps and photovoltaic however I'm not going to jump in without employing a consultant. All the 'expert' opinion that I'm receiving at the moment is sales based.

However anybody pondering these systems will find this site very useful in getting the best price......

http://www.solarguide.co.uk/

[den]

Before you go for it, make sure you don't intend to either move or die within 8 years.

[ABBEY]

Did it cost about £12-15k Neil?

I'm pondering between air / ground based heat pumps and photovoltaic however I'm not going to jump in without employing a consultant. All the 'expert' opinion that I'm receiving at the moment is sales based.

However anybody pondering these systems will find this site very useful in getting the best price......

http://www.solarguide.co.uk/

recycle your hot air from your gob ,save a fortune....sorry pal couldnt resist

[beerwins]

I know a chap who part installed a few panels on his own house just for an experiment, he stores the energy they create in big batteries and then uses the batteries to power low wattage electrical items.

Clever bugger he is

[dopper69]

Did it cost about £12-15k Neil?

I'm pondering between air / ground based heat pumps and photovoltaic however I'm not going to jump in without employing a consultant. All the 'expert' opinion that I'm receiving at the moment is sales based.

However anybody pondering these systems will find this site very useful in getting the best price......

http://www.solarguide.co.uk/

As a Consultant Engineer, I can strongly advise that if you have the initial capital costs your best bet would be to go with the ground / air source heat pump (more than likely air source due to the amount of space required for ground collectors).

[Hughesy]

Guy opposite me had 6 panels installed about 4 weeks ago....cost him £8k

[Ewood Spark]

Did it cost about £12-15k Neil?

I'm pondering between air / ground based heat pumps and photovoltaic however I'm not going to jump in without employing a consultant. All the 'expert' opinion that I'm receiving at the moment is sales based.

However anybody pondering these systems will find this site very useful in getting the best price......

http://www.solarguide.co.uk/

About £10500 Gordon for a 3kw system. I wanted the full 4kw system but my south facing roof wasn't big enough.

If you can have both PVs and a Heat Pump you should go for both. I can't have the heat pump because I have solid floors ... you really need to install underfloor heating pipes if you are going for the heat pump option. For anybody who doesn't know what Heat Pumps are about ... basically for every unit of electrical energy you use you create 4 units of heating energy. ...The panels have now been running for 1 and a half days and have produced 22 units.

[Derby Blue]

We've seriously looked into it. There are companies that will fit and install for free, giving you cheaper bills but they take the cash from selling unused electricity back to the utility company. Good if you, like us, don't have the £10,000+ to get set up with it. they will also maintain it for the 25 years

Some details here

Just a bit nervous about 'renting' my roof space out for such a long time.

[only2garners]

Did it cost about £12-15k Neil?

I'm pondering between air / ground based heat pumps and photovoltaic however I'm not going to jump in without employing a consultant. All the 'expert' opinion that I'm receiving at the moment is sales based.

However anybody pondering these systems will find this site very useful in getting the best price......

http://www.solarguide.co.uk/

I am just in the process of deciding on someone to put in a 4KW system on our roof. So far have had 5 companies round and 3 still in the frame, quoting around the £13K mark for a 4KW system. Guess I need to look at Neil's company as well.......

[Paul]

Question. Our electric bill is around £600 pa, with a £12-15k start up cost how is this found to be cost effective?

[cn174]

Question. Our electric bill is around £600 pa, with a £12-15k start up cost how is this found to be cost effective?

Paul as I understand it you get paid a fixed amount (41p I think) for every kWh you produce whether you use it or not, plus extra if you feed electric back into the grid. Also your electric bill should be less because you are creating some of your own electricity.

I think it is interesting. The thing I have been looking at for work is the other type of solar panels - the thermal ones which don't produce electricity, but heat your water instead, giving you a lower gas bill. These are a lot cheaper I think, but you don't get as much back from the FIT.

I don't think it is possible to get one solar panel that can do both though - someone should invent that!

[only2garners]

Question. Our electric bill is around £600 pa, with a £12-15k start up cost how is this found to be cost effective?

Forget your electricity bill. If you have the capital available you should expect a return around 10%. In very rough terms on the quotes I have had for around £13K for a 4kw system, the biggest you are allowed domestically, the PV panels should produce enough electricity to get me a direct payment from my electricity provider of around £1,200. This is 43.3p for each kWh of power produced plus 3.1p per kWh for half of the electricity generated - this is deemed by the electricity companies to be the approximate amount that you will put into the system in lieu of a meter that measures it. In addition, if I modify my electricity use so that I use as much as possible when it's light e.g. washing machine, dishwasher, tumble dryer etc I should be able to knock c£200 off your electricity bill as well, making £1,400 a year from a capital outlay of £13K. And that is with a roof space facing more or less due west, very slightly south. With a direct soth facing roof you would make a bit more.

You need to have the right roof space though, or a large outdour space that they can erect panels on the ground.. South facing is perfect but east or west will also be fine but you must have little or no shade - any shade has a disproportionately bad effect on the PV output. To get the maximum size system, which is the most economically efficient, you will need space for 16 or 18 panels. Clearly Neil has a bit smaller space than me so has a 3kw system, which obviously costs less and produces less.

Basically what's happening is that every other electricity user is subsidising those that are producing their own renewable power. The electricity companies need to generate a certain percentage of production in renewables so they are very pleased to pay you considerably more than the economic price. Effectively the average consumer is subsidising those with enough spare cash and the right roof space (or space for windmills or ground source heating etc). Before anyone makes this an anti-coalition rant the feed in tariffs were introduced by the Labour government.

[Paul]

I understand this and I would be the last person to criticise individuals for taking advantage of what is effectively a commercial deal. I wouldn't want this to be seen as a rant at those who are installing / considering solar power. However if I have read this correctly, and forgive me if I haven't, the whole proposition is outrageous. I believe electricty units on a domestic bill are expressed in kilowatt hours? (the arguement may be wrong if they aren't). My last fixed rate was at 7.6p per unit and you're stating the electric companies are prepared to pay approximately six times the selling price to purchase "green" power?

The implication is it is cheaper to pay six times the selling price to purchase "green" electricity than it is to invest in commercial scale "green or renewable" generating plant of some sort - be it wind, solar, tidal etc? I view myself as a strong supporter of efforts to be be green, recycle, invest in alternative energy etc. but if I have read this correctly I think I'm going to give up. What is the point in my making efforts in my daily life when the companies with real opportunity to make a difference find it easier to pay for their green input and to expect the public to subsidise their activities. I think I shall simply give up all efforts to act responsibly in this area, I've often wondered if it's really worthwhile and this topic seems to demonstrate it is utterly pointless for the public to attempt a contribution.

I have been vaguely aware of this situation for many years as a good friend has a windfarm in Scotland. He enjoys a comfortable retirement on the proceeds!!!

[cletus]

The leg-iron`s parents have just had solar panels put on their roof. They`re also big into caravaning & have a lovely big van with a solar panel on its roof.

I live in the middle of a terrace of approx 20 houses. My fear is if we got solar panels, the gypo`s or neighbours would whip them off in no time! ....which is a shame cos the back of the house is south facing & a real sun trap.

[Ewood Spark]

I understand this and I would be the last person to criticise individuals for taking advantage of what is effectively a commercial deal. I wouldn't want this to be seen as a rant at those who are installing / considering solar power. However if I have read this correctly, and forgive me if I haven't, the whole proposition is outrageous. I believe electricty units on a domestic bill are expressed in kilowatt hours? (the arguement may be wrong if they aren't). My last fixed rate was at 7.6p per unit and you're stating the electric companies are prepared to pay approximately six times the selling price to purchase "green" power?

The implication is it is cheaper to pay six times the selling price to purchase "green" electricity than it is to invest in commercial scale "green or renewable" generating plant of some sort - be it wind, solar, tidal etc? I view myself as a strong supporter of efforts to be be green, recycle, invest in alternative energy etc. but if I have read this correctly I think I'm going to give up. What is the point in my making efforts in my daily life when the companies with real opportunity to make a difference find it easier to pay for their green input and to expect the public to subsidise their activities. I think I shall simply give up all efforts to act responsibly in this area, I've often wondered if it's really worthwhile and this topic seems to demonstrate it is utterly pointless for the public to attempt a contribution.

I have been vaguely aware of this situation for many years as a good friend has a windfarm in Scotland. He enjoys a comfortable retirement on the proceeds!!!

Paul one of the arguments is that by stimulating the market with what are effectively 'loss leaders', eventually the price of panels will fall. Incidentally the Germans have been operating a similar scheme for the last 10 years and consequently they now have a thriving manufacturing capability in the solar sector .... quite a bit of the kit I have had fitted is from Germany.

[Boz]

Think long and hard, or get good advise, BEFORE going down the rental route.

[matt65]

If anyone is interested in Solar energy a mate of mine from Accrington has his own buisness

WWW.ecosolartech.co.uk great lad to deal with and a Blackburn fan.

[only2garners]

It seems to have taken an inordinate length of time (mostly down to me and not my suppliers) but today we finally switched on our PV solar system this lunchtime. Our installation was complicated by the need to have our roof felted first and by us not being at home for more than 4 days at a time between mid May and mid July - I didn't fancy someone taking the roof off my house when I wasn't there. In the end we have had our roof taken off, felted and put back on and the panels installed in a matter of days.

As ES says, it is a joy to see the meter going backwards!

[thenodrog]

One issue I have is that any guarantees / warranties must be with the (reputable) manufacturers rather than the company that fits the systems. 10 years plus is a long time for any technology to be exposed to the elements and I'm old enough to rem the 25 year guarantees given in the 70's and 80's by individuals for DPC's.... 5 years later when the wallpaper was still peeling off the walls many installers had ceased trading.

[Plastic Head]

Don't deem your export make sure you get it metered. You will generate more income.

Also this will ensure your panels are working to their capabilities.

I have been watching some sites we are metering for Clean Tech and one was much below the others in terms of generation, without the meter it's likely they would never have known, and the one not working correctly was the MD's.

That got us a sale for 3000 EDMI Mk 7's!

[thenodrog]

Don't deem your export make sure you get it metered. You will generate more income.

Also this will ensure your panels are working to their capabilities.

I have been watching some sites we are metering for Clean Tech and one was much below the others in terms of generation, without the meter it's likely they would never have known, and the one not working correctly was the MD's.

That got us a sale for 3000 EDMI Mk 7's!

Praise be to the Lord for google.

[Plastic Head]

Praise be to the Lord for google.

Sadly I don't need google for these I fiddle with them for a living here

The shares have taken a beating recently after domestic metering was put on hold but some may say they are a very tasty price at present.

Not that I know anything...