[Archived] Sam Allardyce Messiah or simply a good manager?

[thenodrog]

By the way I find it more than a bit rich when one of the most embittered posters on here accuses others of being bitter...

Bitter? Allardyce as I have said is no Wenger nor no Guardiola either in his football philosophy. imo Hughes was better too before he soured on us. Now I may be wrong but I don't think either of those would come if asked... after all the Argy Cokehead wouldn't would he? tf! However for a small club with very limited funding SA represents the safest pair of hands in the business. If his staying caused a few know nowt numpties to have fits of pique and stay away then who the hell cares? A few blow hards are expendable when the annual gate receipts total amounts to about 10% of the money the Premier League stumps up every single season. A few old farts are far more expendable to the club than a manager who punches above his weight and virtually guarantees to bring home the bacon year in year out. Just watch the gates drop when we go down!

I realise nobody likes salt rubbing in open wounds but when those wounds are self inflicted then it's totally deserving and you lot should damned well accept it!

[Amo]

Simple question which should suit. Would you rather finish 5th behind those 4 or be fighting a losing battle with relegation?

I don't know what your problem is.

Sam was a good manager for this club. Heck, if I was so 'Anti-Sam' I wouldn't have vented at waggy for the crap he posted about the manager. Was I happy with the style of football? God, no. And that's my prerogative. But I never once called for his head.

When Venky's sacked him, I was as gobsmacked as anyone and the first thing I said was it's a huge risk to sack him mid-season unless they had someone better lined up. For reasons known to them, they went for Kean, so like it or lump it, that's the guy we have to back.

Of course, you can call it 'backtracking' or whatever, but it's all there in black & white.

[broadsword]

Why are people still so infatuated with this guy? He has nothing to do with whether you're happy with Kean.

He's gone, get over him. If we stay up then we've lost nothing by him going.

And we will have gained so many wrinkles.

I can't see people shutting up about Sam any time soon. Unless Kean manages to get us up to 10th without spending any significant sums.

Premiership status is everything, but I would assume that we'll lose out on a few quid this season thanks to a lower league placing than we would've got through Allardyce. And we're dicing with relegation, and could well go down. A situation entirely of our own making.

People can't get their heads round it, which is why Allrdyce's name keeps coming up.

[blue_and_white]

I suspect this argument will rumble on continually until Kean is replaced with someone halfway competent.

The pro-Allardyce gang (including myself) can't leave it alone because we consider this tunnel-visioned, "WE MUST PLAY GOOD FOOTBALL!", deluded and unrealistic attitude to be the exact thing that's got us in this situation and Venkys to be a foolish embodiment of those on here who just cannot fully admit Allardyce was doing a damn good job. We also find it massively objectionable that a guy who did more to help this club than anyone since Souness should be subject to such relentless criticism. Having said that Souness got the same treatment for a long while because of one poor season, which I found equally irritating.

The anti-Allardyce gang I'd imagine can't leave it alone because they've seen what they considered to be the accepted view of taking the **** out of Sam's weight/style of play/interviews eroded in the space of 3 months. Its no longer fashionable to post some mocking torrent of abuse about the man, and that really seems to rankle some of his critics on here. However rather than entertain the idea that they were actually talking codswallop for 2 years. They'd prefer to keep alive the notion that he really was actually rubbish, based on transfer dealings, individual results, away performances and other minor failings that in no way alter the hard fact:

19th -> 15th -> 10th.

Clutching at straws? Give me a break.

[USABlue]

Repeat. Glad he's gone, not happy with the timing of it all. Not happy with our plight. I would have been much happier had we canned him after the season.

Does anyone remember the fan furor when his name was mentioned after Hughes. So strong was opposition to the expert that Rovers balked and got Ince. That is about all I want to say on this matter now. I pray we manage to stay up but it's looking very unlikely.

[neekoy]

Haven't been around for a while and we are still nagging on about this....unbelievable.

I think we are all pretty aware that we shouldn't have got rid of Allardyce WHEN WE DID, but it has happended and there is nothing that anyone can do to change that. /thread FFS.

[otto man]

Thanks for answering for me. You have the gift of second sight too,amazing....perhaps you could set up your very own forum where you both ask the questions and give the answers until you disappear up your own back passage.

There's something of the narcissist about you at times..

+1,000,000 :lol:

[Miker]

Sam was and is a great manager, he knows how to get results and knows how to get the most out of the teams he manages. He has a proven track record in the top league and he's a very respectable figure in the football world.

He saved us from relegation, consolidated our position in the Premier League on a tiny budget and brought to the fore some of the players that are now key to our team.

I have a lot of time and respect for him as a person and a manager, and while I haven't agreed with everything he says, I have enough sense in me to see him for the intelligent football man he is.

If you disagree, then good for you! Just don't tell me what I should or shouldn't think.

[patrickvalery]

If everyone agrees to call him a messiah can we close this thread and move on with our lives?

[BangkokRover]

BFS = Messiah

Please lock the thread.

[davulsukur]

I suspect this argument will rumble on continually until Kean is replaced with someone halfway competent.

The pro-Allardyce gang (including myself) can't leave it alone because we consider this tunnel-visioned, "WE MUST PLAY GOOD FOOTBALL!", deluded and unrealistic attitude to be the exact thing that's got us in this situation and Venkys to be a foolish embodiment of those on here who just cannot fully admit Allardyce was doing a damn good job. We also find it massively objectionable that a guy who did more to help this club than anyone since Souness should be subject to such relentless criticism. Having said that Souness got the same treatment for a long while because of one poor season, which I found equally irritating.

The anti-Allardyce gang I'd imagine can't leave it alone because they've seen what they considered to be the accepted view of taking the **** out of Sam's weight/style of play/interviews eroded in the space of 3 months. Its no longer fashionable to post some mocking torrent of abuse about the man, and that really seems to rankle some of his critics on here. However rather than entertain the idea that they were actually talking codswallop for 2 years. They'd prefer to keep alive the notion that he really was actually rubbish, based on transfer dealings, individual results, away performances and other minor failings that in no way alter the hard fact:

19th -> 15th -> 10th.

Clutching at straws? Give me a break.

It's posts like this that keep the argument going round in circles. Anyone who is a Sam fan, shoots down the Anti Sam brigade and vice versa, your first paragraph slants heavily in the favour of the pro sam gang and the second just implies that any notion of a negative view on him is wrong, which would provoke a reaction from an anti - sam board member.

No one can find any middle groung and accept parts from both sides of the argument.

[chris]

How do you think Man Utd would have gone on since 1989 if they had sacked Mr ManU Alex Ferguson way back then?

He would have got sacked and in 1990 Jack Walker would have signed Alex Ferguson instead of Kenny, Blackburn would go on to 7 league titles, 5 FA Cups and two Champions League victories.

Man United would have been relegated and eventually become MK United moving to Milton Keynes

[Gav]

If everyone agrees to call him a messiah can we close this thread and move on with our lives?

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy!

[patrickvalery]

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy!

If i had a sheckel for every time i'd heard that!

[alexanders]

Im a Christian and I find this thread appaling and blasfemic! MODS??

[booth]

If i had a sheckel for every time i'd heard that!

For an ex-leper?

[otto man]

A sign, a sign, give us a sign!

[roversmum]

You'll find it in a brown envelope

[booth]

You'll find it in a brown envelope

No! We must gather shoes in abundance!

[chocky]

You'll find it in a brown envelope

Lol, now that sums Allardyce up perfectly mum...

[dopper69]

Competent - Yes

Good manager - No

For all the ego that he carries with him he has won nothing of any meaning. Let's see where he turns up next. I have an inkling it will be nearer the bottom of the league (or the fizzy pop league) than the top.

[tony gale's mic]

Competent - Yes

Good manager - No

For all the ego that he carries with him he has won nothing of any meaning. Let's see where he turns up next. I have an inkling it will be nearer the bottom of the league (or the fizzy pop league) than the top.

Yeah, Mark Hughes has never won anything of meaning. Not a good manager. Moyes has never won anything of meaning. Not a good manager.

[dopper69]

Yeah, Mark Hughes has never won anything of meaning. Not a good manager. Moyes has never won anything of meaning. Not a good manager.

I'd hazard a guess that they will both achieve more than Sam has at his age. For one they have both had much more 'desirable' jobs than Sam, whilst being 10 years younger.

Edit - and you never hear them banging on about guaranteed back to back BBVA titles if they were the manager of Real etc.

[RovertheHill]

20+ years ago you judged how good a manager was in what they'd won. It's a pointless exercise these days because the big clubs hoover up everything.

Win ratio and points per game are probably the best measures. Sam was a good manager no doubt. However one of his strengths was convincing many on here that he was the only person capable of managing this club.

[den]

Sam was a good manager no doubt. However one of his strengths was convincing many on here that he was the only person capable of managing this club.

Au Contraire Roverthehill. One of the weaknesses of many on here was the belief that this squad could play entertaining football.

Haven't we been here once before?