[Archived] Sam Allardyce Messiah or simply a good manager?

[dopper69]

We'll agree to disagree I think.

Olsson was the third that I made reference to.

That's fine people have differing opinions, that part of life and we all should respect each others opinion. I feel just the lynch mob mentality of this site that prevents people from posting their opinions openly.

[Gav]

I feel just the lynch mob mentality of this site that prevents people from posting their opinions openly.

No it doesn't dopper69, you're doing just that now, don't let them put you off.

[Kelbo]

I will state this as the truth from a top coach at a prem club, 'Sam Allardyce is a top manager, well respected by his peers within the game'.

[broadsword]

Olsson was the third that I made reference to.

That's fine people have differing opinions, that part of life and we all should respect each others opinion. I feel just the lynch mob mentality of this site that prevents people from posting their opinions openly.

You have a right to a view!

The problem, no-one wants to back down, arguments just go on and on ...

[dunc]

Do you know what Bryan, I'm about to open myself up to ridicule here, but we were pants last season, and the 10th place finish was a complete fluke and flattered us.

But the bottom line is we finished 10th, and you can't really argue with that.

No flukes over 38 games. You finish where you deserve to finish.

[Parsonblue]

Do you know what Bryan, I'm about to open myself up to ridicule here, but we were pants last season, and the 10th place finish was a complete fluke and flattered us.

But the bottom line is we finished 10th, and you can’t really argue with that.

The bottom line is you finish where you deserve to finish. When we won the title we did so because over the course of the season we ended up with a point more than our nearest challengers. We finished top because that's where we ended up after 42 League games. Last season we finished 10th because that's where we ended up when all the games had been played. This season, we will end up where we deserve to be. If we survive we will have deserved to survive and if we go down we will have deserved to go down.

[jim mk2]

Do you know what Bryan, I'm about to open myself up to ridicule here, but we were pants last season, and the 10th place finish was a complete fluke and flattered us.

But the bottom line is we finished 10th, and you can't really argue with that.

I'm afraid you're open to ridicule with just about every post - but no matter.

And you've ansewred yourself anyway - you can't argue with 10th place which was a brilliant effort with a poor squad.

[XLM]

And still the myth stands that we had a poor squad. Their has been some absolute dross in the Premier League for the past 5 years, most notably last year...

Stoke, a Portsmouth reserve side, Hull, Birmingham, Wigan (who are still in the division despite being crap since their first season), Megson's Bolton and Burnley FFS, who were the worst side I've even seen in this division. Add to that Fulham who concentrated solely on the Europa League once they had secured their safety.

Now apart from a goalscorer we had a decent squad last year. Better than any of the sides above at the very least. We SHOULD have finished in the position that we did because of the players we had.

I was pleased enough at the time that we did finish there because it was Allardyce's first full season and so it was a respectable performance. This year we should have kicked on as the squad could fully be called Allardyce's. His players, his tactics. And we had gone nowhere from a year earlier, same hoof and hope that we simply weren't good at. Relying on luck and gamesmanship in the penalty area for goals. How can people have such an admiration for such little progress? Not even to mention the lack of entertainment that we had to endure. Coming away from a 1-0 win feeling flat and drained.

Remove the circumstances by which Allardyce was booted and your opinions of his successor from the equation. It has nothing to do with Allardyce's managerial talents.

[Tris]

I'm afraid you're open to ridicule with just about every post - but no matter.

And you've ansewred yourself anyway - you can't argue with 10th place which was a brilliant effort with a poor squad.

You posted consistently against Souness and then Hughes when they were in charge. Never a word of praise for their league placings in difficult circumstances, or cup runs with poor squads in the context of the opposition.

And you slagged off John Williams at every opportunity until 3 months back.

Ridicule / hypocrisy ... matters of opinion.

BTW try and respond without another moderator edit for insults - I've counted 4 in the last week so why you are not banned is a mystery.

[Miker]

I was pleased enough at the time that we did finish there because it was Allardyce's first full season and so it was a respectable performance. This year we should have kicked on as the squad could fully be called Allardyce's. His players, his tactics. And we had gone nowhere from a year earlier, same hoof and hope that we simply weren't good at. Relying on luck and gamesmanship in the penalty area for goals. How can people have such an admiration for such little progress? Not even to mention the lack of entertainment that we had to endure. Coming away from a 1-0 win feeling flat and drained.

Everton.

I should point to Liverpool this season as well, after sacking Hodgson and appointing Dalglish.

It's a 38-game season. I'll leave it at that.

[XLM]

I don't really see what you're driving at.

Everton have always come on strong towards the end of the season under Moyes (or at least in recent memory), have Allardyce's sides always come on late in the season? Because if not you're just pointing out a completely irrelevant example of 1 scenario that could happen. We could have tanked in the same manner as we have done. Blackpool have; therefore by your logic we would have too.

And Liverpool axed a manager and then their fortunes changed. An example of a sacking being justified, again, what the hell are you on about?

[Mattyblue]

Can't state your opinion?

The hardcore anti Sam brigade have constantly spouted their opinions for TWO YEARS, even now when the side has collapsed in just 3 months!

So, feel free to carry on, the reason you are argued against is because you now make up just a small rump of this board.

[thenodrog]

The hardcore anti Sam brigade will NEVER admit their mistake.

Even Gav, who I have had many a debate with, accepts that he is a good manager, he just didn't like the fella or his approach.

The last, desperate arguments of dopper and his ilk, just end up being personal insults, jibes like 'Mr Bolton' and bringing up his off the cuff comments like Real Madrid (comments that had nowt to do with the job he was undertaking at Rovers).

You know then that the argument has been well and truly lost.

Indeed. How pathetic and stupid the posters on here who repeatedly hurled the word "expert" back down his throat in the context of our current predicament. Their ill conceived judgement will ensure that the term "expert" will never be directed at them won't it?

Also it's a fair assumption the words "expert", "Venkey's" and "Steve Kean" will never be used in the same sentence apart from this one either will they?

[Mattyblue]

'The Expert', how did I forget that one!

[John]

That's the thing - a lot of the people who don't rate Sam as a very good manager, don't like him (as a person).

The debate was lost a long time ago - not sure why there is even one taking place, his results speak for themselves.

[thenodrog]

quote 'tony gale's mic'

He's managed in this league for about a decade. The only time he's got a side involved in a relegation fight, even remotely threatened by the drop was in his first season after he got Bolton promoted. Considering when he took over Bolton were mid table in the league below, staying up that season was one hell of an achievement anyway

In 2001-2- Bolton in their first season finished 16th in the league 4 points off the relegation places.

In 2002-3- Bolton in their second season finished 17th in the league 2 points off the relegation places.

Is this the one season you are talking about Bolton narrowly avoided relegation? Also puts paid to the constant reminders that Bolton made progress year on year, they went BACK for the first two seasons.........

Funny how Gartside gave him a 10 year contract and topped it up in 2004! You need to conduct more research in order for your arguments not to appear a taj stupid. To continue imy you are stupidly attempting to re-write history in the stupid assumption that others possess no memory capability and that is just stupid of you.

I'll resist using the most appropriate emoticon to accompany this post as I am sure that everybody will get my drift.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I believe Sam Allardyce was a master of what he did best,getting the very best out of an average squad.He was planning to build on last season and without a shadow of a doubt in my mind we would not have been in this present predicament with him still at the helm.

He DIDN'T deserve to be sacked the way he was.

He's gone now and isn't coming back but by christ,results since he left speak for themselves.

[imy9]

Funny how Gartside gave him a 10 year contract and topped it up in 2004! You need to conduct more research in order for your arguments not to appear a taj stupid. To continue imy you are stupidly attempting to re-write history in the stupid assumption that others possess no memory capability and that is just stupid of you.

I'll resist using the most appropriate emoticon to accompany this post as I am sure that everybody will get my drift.

There is a hefty dose of irony in what you write- I'll let you work this out

I merely pointed out two things that certain posters have been repeating on this MB DOZENS of times which are factually inaccurate, what do you suggest I do when history is being re written? Also I dont assume anything Drog, the internet is a wonderful thing to use and what I have said can be checked, maybe the stupidity is calling someone stupid, what do you reckon?

[onlyonejackwalker]

I believe Sam Allardyce was a master of what he did best,getting the very best out of an average squad.He was planning to build on last season and without a shadow of a doubt in my mind we would not have been in this present predicament with him still at the helm.

He DIDN'T deserve to be sacked the way he was.

He's gone now and isn't coming back but by christ,results since he left speak for themselves.

Well said Garners. It is all guesswork and conjecture, but I believe we would have further improved on last years league finish, especially with an extra 5 million to spend and I was genuinely looking forward to the 2nd half of the season with the big man in charge.

Roll it on a few months with Kean in charge and what have you got?

Mass divides amongst fans, mass uncertainty throughout the club, a pathetic run of form on the pitch, falling league places, unhappy players making themselves unavailable for selection, a relegation battle and possible relegation.

Meanwhile, failure to win today and we equal our worst run of form since 1986, 10 games without a win. The worst run of form for 25 years, but others will have you believing that all is rosy in our garden and statistics like this are completely irrelevant and meaningless.

[maccy]

Sam was a good manager, his style was never going to be loved by the masses he was a pragmatist. Sometimes too negative, and without a plan B. However we currently do not have a plan A. Anyone who wouldn't go back in time and take Sam until the end of the season is stupid, or an idiot...

I genuinely miss moaning about sam's lack if plan B.

[beerwins]

Pump the ball out to the wings, you guys then fall over when oposing players are near, win free kick, launch into box when most of other team still contemplating why kick was given.

A real genius manager finds a way to win within the boundaries of the game without milking it for every little inch you can get.

[rubecula]

I have never had anything to do with Sam, so I can't really say that I liked or disliked him, but in all honesty I have to admit his abilities as a manager were really very good in many ways.

I have no axe to grind about him, so perhaps I shouldn't comment. But I am going to anyway.

He always got the best out of his teams that he could be reasonably expected to get.

Could he have done better.?... maybe.

Could he have bought better?... If he had the money.

Should he have been sacked?.... Was it entirely based on results? If it was then Kean should also be sacked in that case.

Should he have been sacked in the way he was?....Not in my opinion. That was very bad.

[47er]

I have never had anything to do with Sam, so I can't really say that I liked or disliked him, but in all honesty I have to admit his abilities as a manager were really very good in many ways.

I have no axe to grind about him, so perhaps I shouldn't comment. But I am going to anyway.

He always got the best out of his teams that he could be reasonably expected to get.

Could he have done better.?... maybe.

Could he have bought better?... If he had the money.

Should he have been sacked?.... Was it entirely based on results? If it was then Kean should also be sacked in that case.

Should he have been sacked in the way he was?....Not in my opinion. That was very bad.

Well you've grasped the situation better than many of our own supporters!

[Majiball]

Hilarious

[tony gale's mic]

He's managed in this league for about a decade. The only time he's got a side involved in a relegation fight, even remotely threatened by the drop was in his first season after he got Bolton promoted. Considering when he took over Bolton were mid table in the league below, staying up that season was one hell of an achievement anyway

In 2001-2- Bolton in their first season finished 16th in the league 4 points off the relegation places.

In 2002-3- Bolton in their second season finished 17th in the league 2 points off the relegation places.

Is this the one season you are talking about Bolton narrowly avoided relegation? Also puts paid to the constant reminders that Bolton made progress year on year, they went BACK for the first two seasons.

They were 9th when he joined Bolton, my maths is not great but 9th out of 24 is comfortably top half rather than mid table.

It is possible to be top half and mid table you know? They're not mutually exclusive. Last season we were 10th, top half, but we were also mid table. Similarly 9th is mid table (much closer to 12th than to 1st), but it's also top half. You're really nitpicking here, scraping the barrel.

Also, the first two seasons in the league were about stabilising Bolton, avoiding relegation was an achievement in itself with a club you'd got promoted. That was impressive in itself, given the amount of clubs which go straight down or the season afterwards. What came after those two seasons were where he really made his name. Again, you're nitpicking. Sure there was a season where they more or less stagnated (the margins arent exactly huge there are they?), but after that they made huge progress.