[Archived] Sam Allardyce Messiah or simply a good manager?

[tony gale's mic]

And still the myth stands that we had a poor squad. Their has been some absolute dross in the Premier League for the past 5 years, most notably last year...

Stoke, a Portsmouth reserve side, Hull, Birmingham, Wigan (who are still in the division despite being crap since their first season), Megson's Bolton and Burnley FFS, who were the worst side I've even seen in this division. Add to that Fulham who concentrated solely on the Europa League once they had secured their safety.

Now apart from a goalscorer we had a decent squad last year. Better than any of the sides above at the very least. We SHOULD have finished in the position that we did because of the players we had.

I was pleased enough at the time that we did finish there because it was Allardyce's first full season and so it was a respectable performance. This year we should have kicked on as the squad could fully be called Allardyce's. His players, his tactics. And we had gone nowhere from a year earlier, same hoof and hope that we simply weren't good at. Relying on luck and gamesmanship in the penalty area for goals. How can people have such an admiration for such little progress? Not even to mention the lack of entertainment that we had to endure. Coming away from a 1-0 win feeling flat and drained.

Remove the circumstances by which Allardyce was booted and your opinions of his successor from the equation. It has nothing to do with Allardyce's managerial talents.

How much did we spend compared to the teams below us? Stoke, Sunderland, Fulham, Bolton and West Ham all had considerably more money to spend on players than we did. And if you look at the teams above us, every single one of them (including Birmingham who were finished level on points with and who spent around £15 million) spent much more than we ever could. Not only did we have no decent strikers, but we also had a threadbare midfield, a problem we still have now. Sure we had a solid defence and a goalkeeper who rediscovered his form, but that was about it.

And no, they weren't all his players. He'd only been there a season and a half and was given a negative transfer budget. You need three seasons to really build a team of your own. Little progress? We got 21 points from his 16 games this season - a large enough representative sample for the season. If we'd carried on like that (and there's every reason to say we wouldve done) we would've been in 9th, 2 points behind Everton before the game at Goodison. I'd call that progress. How much more progress did you expect when we could easily have been challenging a team which could spend £25 million plus on two midfielders alone (Fellaini and Biliyatdenov).

A lot of fans came away from hard fought 1-0 wins happy. Maybe you came away flat and seeing your team win a match, but not everyone did.

Do you know what Bryan, I'm about to open myself up to ridicule here, but we were pants last season, and the 10th place finish was a complete fluke and flattered us.

But the bottom line is we finished 10th, and you can’t really argue with that.

If the 2008-09 season had started after the Ince sacking, we would've been 10th for the remainder of that season. We finished 10th in his only full season. League was tight when he was sacked, we were 2 points off 7th but 4 points off 18th - but if he'd carried on that form until now we wouldve been 9th right now.

So it's not a fluke at all - those are the results he achieved throughout the two years he was at Rovers.

[Rover Down Under]

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy!

Premier League: Crucifixion?

Blackburn Rovers: Yes.

Premier League: Good. Out of the door, line on the left, one cross each. ...

[Bobby G]

No messiah. But he is a manager at least. Steve Kean wouldnt be the gum in Big Sam's mouth.

[Guest linganzi]

Just on talk sport how happy the neutrals would be if we went down as we sacked Sam, the same pundits who slated us for Sam.

Slight tangent they said yesterday our best hope us the young American left winger called hoit

[Andy]

No messiah. But he is a manager at least. Steve Kean wouldnt be the gum in Big Sam's mouth.

I think this sums is up perfectly for the majority of Rovers fans.

We don't see him as any kind of 'messiah', but he's a very effective and competent manager for a club of our size and resources.`

[Gav]

If the 2008-09 season had started after the Ince sacking, we would've been 10th for the remainder of that season. We finished 10th in his only full season. League was tight when he was sacked, we were 2 points off 7th but 4 points off 18th - but if he'd carried on that form until now we wouldve been 9th right now.

So it's not a fluke at all - those are the results he achieved throughout the two years he was at Rovers.

Bottom line is we finished 10th, what we’d give for that finish now

[Jimmy612]

Bottom line is we finished 10th, what we’d give for that finish now

But what of the away days that you couldn't bring yourself to go to Gav?

[Gav]

But what of the away days that you couldn't bring yourself to go to Gav?

I didn't go, like many others, so your point is?

[Jimmy612]

I didn't go, like many others, so your point is?

Well obviously that was your one of your main reasons for wanting Allardyce out. I assume you went to Everton? Your away day strikes and whinging about our away form (even though 7 other teams had worse) during the Allardyce reign seem a bit far fetched, seeing as though we were still acheiving 10th in the league in SA's only full season.. oh plus the fact we had 21 points in mid-december.

[martmitch]

Allardyce is on talksh*te in 5 mins

[den]

Interesting, that this morning on Radio Lancashire, Ian Holloway was asking the Blackpool boo boys to lay off his team. Dropping into the bottom three hasn't gone down well with their fans.

The same Ian Holloway and the same Blackpool team who many anti-Sam's on here, used as a demonstration of how pretty, flowing football can be used to great effect in the PL.

[Mattyblue]

Interesting, that this morning on Radio Lancashire, Ian Holloway was asking the Blackpool boo boys to lay off his team. Dropping into the bottom three hasn't gone down well with their fans.

The same Ian Holloway and the same Blackpool team who many anti-Sam's on here, used as a demonstration of how pretty, flowing football can be used to great effect in the PL.

I see your old sparring partner Topman, has changed his tune from saying we can play the beautiful game with our playing staff to blaming our woes on the Walker Trust for a lack of investment in the squad.

[Jimmy612]

I see your old sparring partner Topman, has changed his tune from saying we can play the beautiful game with our playing staff to blaming our woes on the Walker Trust for a lack of investment in the squad.

Clutching at straws

[Gav]

Well obviously that was your one of your main reasons for wanting Allardyce out. I assume you went to Everton? Your away day strikes and whinging about our away form (even though 7 other teams had worse) during the Allardyce reign seem a bit far fetched, seeing as though we were still acheiving 10th in the league in SA's only full season.. oh plus the fact we had 21 points in mid-december.

You know my feelings on the sudject, they're well documented, no need to keep going round in circles, I'm right and you're wrong

[den]

I see your old sparring partner Topman, has changed his tune from saying we can play the beautiful game with our playing staff to blaming our woes on the Walker Trust for a lack of investment in the squad.

Has he? I don't know because he's been on ignore for over a week. Not in the least surprised.

[thenodrog]

It is possible to be top half and mid table you know? They're not mutually exclusive. Last season we were 10th, top half, but we were also mid table. Similarly 9th is mid table (much closer to 12th than to 1st), but it's also top half. You're really nitpicking here, scraping the barrel.

Also, the first two seasons in the league were about stabilising Bolton, avoiding relegation was an achievement in itself with a club you'd got promoted. That was impressive in itself, given the amount of clubs which go straight down or the season afterwards. What came after those two seasons were where he really made his name. Again, you're nitpicking. Sure there was a season where they more or less stagnated (the margins arent exactly huge there are they?), but after that they made huge progress.

Allardyce was doing amazing work with no money at Bolton. Rem he ran big spending us and Fulham all the way in the promotion season with a decidedly average squad. The improvement in Boltons status coincided with Eddie Davies becoming majority shareholder in 2003 and providing Allardyce at last with some bunce to spend.

I didn't go, like many others, so your point is?

Gav... do you even go to all the home games?

Interesting, that this morning on Radio Lancashire, Ian Holloway was asking the Blackpool boo boys to lay off his team. Dropping into the bottom three hasn't gone down well with their fans.

The same Ian Holloway and the same Blackpool team who many anti-Sam's on here, used as a demonstration of how pretty, flowing football can be used to great effect in the PL.

Correct Den.

I see your old sparring partner Topman, has changed his tune from saying we can play the beautiful game with our playing staff to blaming our woes on the Walker Trust for a lack of investment in the squad.

Surely nobody can be under the illusion that Topman knows the first thing about football? I'm truly gobsmacked. Never mind changing his tune his only hope is to change his name.

[chaddyrovers]

Sam Allardyce interview with talksport.

talks about rovers about 8 mins in and about how close we were to signing raul and guti!

http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/6659/7/exclusive-allardyce-hits-out-%E2%80%98self-important%E2%80%99-wenger

[Amo]

I see your old sparring partner Topman, has changed his tune from saying we can play the beautiful game with our playing staff to blaming our woes on the Walker Trust for a lack of investment in the squad.

Are they mutually exclusive subjects?

Has he? I don't know because he's been on ignore for over a week. Not in the least surprised.

Say it ain't so!

[rog of the rovers]

On TalkSport he said the club was close to signing Raul and Guti, Michel had convinced them to come to Blackburn, but John Williams and the board couldn't justify spending the money on them!

Allardyce spoke well (imho) but you could definitely tell he still thinks he's the best manager Man United, Barcelona and England never had!

[Kjell Sindre]

Allardyce spoke well (imho) but you could definitely tell he still thinks he's the best manager Man United, Barcelona and England never had!

Which is why I like him!

[Amo]

Allardyce spoke well (imho) but you could definitely tell he still thinks he's the best manager Man United, Barcelona and England never had!

I don't understand why he has such a massive ego.

I know Gordon likes to make parallels between Cloughie, Mourinho & Fergie, but they've cut it at the highest level. Sam's good at bossing unfashionable, North-West clubs - That's about it.

[Kjell Sindre]

I don't understand why he has such a massive ego.

I know Gordon likes to make parallels between Cloughie, Mourinho & Fergie, but they've cut it at the highest level. Sam's good at bossing unfashionable, North-West clubs - That's about it.

I'll give you two reasons (which of course are perfectly sound)

1. His achievement at Bolton is one of the best in the last 10 to 15 years of Premiership football (unfortunately he never got the chance to do a similar thing at Rovers).

2. He might feel the need to hit back at hilarious brandings given by other managers, media and so called experts or fans.

[Gav]

Allardyce spoke well (imho) but you could definitely tell he still thinks he's the best manager Man United, Barcelona and England never had!

Spot on.

[blue_and_white]

Spot on.

Spot on?! Do you listen to yourself sometimes? Complaining about people victimising Kean in one thread whilst coming out with a load of sour, blatantly biased rubbish about our previous manager in another. All Allardyce ever said is he thought he could do a good job if he was given a crack at a top club. To this day I fail to see what is so ridiculous, arrogant, amusing or any of the other hysterical reactions half of our fans came up with to that. He did better than practically anyone could have done at Bolton, his record was better than Hughes' at Rovers and Hughes was then snapped up by the richest club in the world. I'm not suprised Allardyce occasionally feels hard done by when it comes to the pecking order for high up posts.

[Amo]

I'll give you two reasons (which of course are perfectly sound)

1. His achievement at Bolton is one of the best in the last 10 to 15 years of Premiership football (unfortunately he never got the chance to do a similar thing at Rovers).

2. He might feel the need to hit back at hilarious brandings given by other managers, media and so called experts or fans.

I don't see such flagrant arrogance from Sparky, whose work at Rovers was an even greater achievement.

Allardyce can keep bigging himself up for a top job but it's not coming. I don't see any PL clubs climbing over each other to hire him since we gave him the boot. He's a good manager for a club of our size and resources but let's not pretend he's anything greater than that.

EDIT: I actually think Allardyce would hit it off well at the JJB, if their fans grew tired of style over substance.