[Archived] Sam Allardyce Messiah or simply a good manager?

[John]

Tony I find it interesting that you say that I am spinning things, if I give an opinion it's exactly that, when I give facts they are that, you have on numerous occasions given facts and repeated them dozens of times and they are inaccurate- genuine errors or attempts to point score,, examples?

1. Sam was only ever remotely involved in a relegation fight ONCE- I checked it quite clearly it was TWICE.

2. Kalinic has a minute to goal ratio of a goal every 175 minutes, this was wrong it's 1 every 149 minutes. Those are two I'm sure there are more.

I don't really know how much of what you state are facts are accurate and if I'm honest can't be bothered to check- i did for the above and it took a while so I will refrain from replying Doc.

Who cares if Sam was involved in a relegation fight more than once or not - the fact remains he is a very good manager and did an excellent job for us (his results testify that). Mark Hughes also did a fantastic job here and his player recruitment in particular was unrivalled & outstanding.

Just accept they both did good jobs and move on.......not sure what you are trying to achieve by making pointless debates.

[thenodrog]

Just accept they both did good jobs and move on.......not sure what you are trying to achieve by making pointless debates.

Standard diversionary tactics John. There's a few of em at it and no bloody wonder.

I was the target on Sunday.

[yoda]

Allardice has gone and won't be coming back,

I can think of only one person that might get us the points to stay up and it is a big gamble but to do nothing and leave this scrimshanker in his job is suicide,

The Raos' should Call Tony Parkes NOW

[Gav]

The Raos' should Call Tony Parkes NOW

No thanks.

[yoda]

No thanks.

Do you have a better idea?

one that could be achieved that is

[Amo]

Do you have a better idea?

one that could be achieved that is

SOUEY.

[Gav]

Do you have a better idea?

one that could be achieved that is

I don't yoda no, but Parkes for all his Mr Blackburn Rovers attributes, wouldn't inspire me in the short term I can tell you that, so I can't see him having any impact with players he hardly knows.

Just my opinion.

[Majiball]

SOUEY.

Best shout yet.

[A cup of beans]

Best shout yet.

i wouldnt be against it... though its clear kean will stay.

IMO we shouldve re-hired souness when we sacked ince, instead we hired the messiah!

[Jimmy612]

IMO we shouldve re-hired souness when we sacked ince, instead we hired the messiah!

Why? Do you think with limited finances he could have done anywhere near as well as Allardyce? Do you generallty think Allardyce was a bad manager Zac, or do you believe he possessed some positive attributes i.e. taking a team from bottom of the leage to PL survival, followed by a top 10 finish and a league cup semi-final the following year?

[A cup of beans]

Why? Do you think with limited finances he could have done anywhere near as well as Allardyce? Do you generallty think Allardyce was a bad manager Zac, or do you believe he possessed some positive attributes i.e. taking a team from bottom of the leage to PL survival, followed by a top 10 finish and a league cup semi-final the following year?

im thankful that he kept us up... but thats all.

i said to every1 that knew me that we shouldve sacked him once he kept us up!

(people on this board will back me up).

what came after was an utter bore. do people not remember the negativity against him after the villa semi final home leg ? and before. reading those posts would be fascinating!

also the negative display at turf moor too ??? yeah i celebrated the win, but felt a bit frustrated that we hadnt attacked and destroyed them!

[A cup of beans]

souness' 1st 3 years were fantastic. he became complacent in the later season and i believe was looking for a change.

on replacing ince, i thought if he could recreate the spirit and successes on his early spell, great, if not we'd be more entertaining than under sam.

also on sam. wasnt he going to quit club management in 2years to conccentrate on international management ?

and managing inter and real madrid comments were embarrasing, laughable and disrespectful to our players.

[imy9]

Standard diversionary tactics John. There's a few of em at it and no bloody wonder.

I was the target on Sunday.

Come on Theno it's hard to avoid you when you've got that huge 'the end is near' placard round your neck in neon lights! You a victim... Believe that when I see it lol.

[Gav]

also on sam. wasnt he going to quit club management in 2years to conccentrate on international management ?

and managing inter and real madrid comments were embarrasing, laughable and disrespectful to our players.

Allardyce tried to leave in the summer.

[47er]

Personally I'm finding this argument as boring as hell. Both Sparky and Allardyce did a great job and I'd have either of them back in a heartbeat.

My personal preference is for Hughes on account of a) his incredible record in the transfer market the confidence he built in the players and the fans so that there was no game we couldn't win.

What matters is that our current manager is nowhere near either of them.

[RevidgeBlue]

I didn't hear it but apparently Sam was interviewed on Gray and Keys on Talksport the other morning and said the reason he wasn't getting any job offers was that he was saddled with the long ball tag.

You reap what you sow I suppose, I've passed the opinion several times that his time at Rovers wouldn't enhance his reputation within the wider footballing community but as a short term "get us out of trouble" firefighter he should surely be the first name on every prospective employer's list.

[A cup of beans]

I didn't hear it but apparently Sam was interviewed on Gray and Keys on Talksport the other morning and said the reason he wasn't getting any job offers was that he was saddled with the long ball tag.

was he ? i might have to give it a listen.

on the talksprt site you can listen again or download an mp3 (free). the station is unlistenable most of the time though.

[Jimmy612]

I didn't hear it but apparently Sam was interviewed on Gray and Keys on Talksport the other morning and said the reason he wasn't getting any job offers was that he was saddled with the long ball tag.

You reap what you sow I suppose, I've passed the opinion several times that his time at Rovers wouldn't enhance his reputation within the wider footballing community but as a short term "get us out of trouble" firefighter he should surely be the first name on every prospective employer's list.

There are many ways to play football Rev, galvanising your teams best qualities is certainly an excellent way to do that. Allardyce also went on to say that Bolton could mix their styles of play, which is what made them so successful.

There is no way that Okocha, Djorkaeff, Campo, Hierro, Stelios (need I go on) could have been anywhere near as effective, had the ball been thumped over their heads everytime Bolton had it.

The media battered Allardyce for his style of play, even though it wasn't always the method employed during his most successful time at any club.

[Majiball]

Come on Theno it's hard to avoid you when you've got that huge 'the end is near and I predicted it' placard round your neck in neon lights! You a victim... Believe that when I see it lol.

I had to, it was too tempting.

[imy9]

[blue_and_white]

im thankful that he kept us up... but thats all.

i said to every1 that knew me that we shouldve sacked him once he kept us up!

(people on this board will back me up).

what came after was an utter bore. do people not remember the negativity against him after the villa semi final home leg ? and before. reading those posts would be fascinating!

also the negative display at turf moor too ??? yeah i celebrated the win, but felt a bit frustrated that we hadnt attacked and destroyed them!

Do people lose track of who or what we are sometimes? If we were charged the same prices as other clubs we'd have the 3rd smallest attendances in the league and while Sam was here we regularly had the smallest transfer budget. If someone described another team to me that was like that I'd say "relegation certainties, every season". But because its Rovers and we used to be wealthy and powerful, there's this ridiculous lingering sense of entitlement that we should be doing better than our finances, size, personnel and any other sensible measure says we ought to.

Small clubs with no money dont sack a manager who just kept them up. Small clubs with no money dont complain about not beating their rivals by more away from home. Small clubs with no money don't complain about losing a cup semi-final. Small clubs with no money dont complain that they should be successful playing like Arsenal. But for some bizarre reason many Rovers fans do, and you reap what you sow as they say. Just a shame those of us who weren't too dumb to recognise significant overachievement when they saw it have to reap it as well.

[tony gale's mic]

I didn't hear it but apparently Sam was interviewed on Gray and Keys on Talksport the other morning and said the reason he wasn't getting any job offers was that he was saddled with the long ball tag.

You reap what you sow I suppose, I've passed the opinion several times that his time at Rovers wouldn't enhance his reputation within the wider footballing community but as a short term "get us out of trouble" firefighter he should surely be the first name on every prospective employer's list.

And again, this thread won't rest while people continue to makwe wildly inaccurate statements like this.

Getting a Bolton team from 9th place in Division One, successfully fighting relegation in the first two seasons after they came up, and then for the following four seasons combined being the best team in the top flight outside the big four is the complete polar opposite of being a "get us out of trouble firefighter".

Although the circumstances were different for Rovers and we'd been a good team the season before, he still did the initial "firefighting" (the only thing you seem to give him credit for), had us comfortably clear of the drop by the end of the season, built on this success to have us 10th this season, and then started the first 17 games (ie almost half of the season) with a record that translated into 33 games would have us 9th at the moment.

His Bolton team initially warranted their long ball "hoofball" tag, as he first built a solid defence and a side who could avoid defeat in order to stay up. However after this, he brought in the likes of Okocha and Djorkaeff who combined with the likes of Nolan to make them very good in midfield. In this stages they might not have played like Barca but they certainly weren't hoofball either - if they were those players wouldnt have had anything like the success they did as they wouldve been incompatible with the system. Unfortunately the hoofball tag stuck.

Similarly with Rovers, last season the football was aesthetically pretty poor until the latter stages. But he got results. And you only need to look at the transfer targets he had in mind (if he'd had the money to be able to see them through) - Raul and Guti (who have both done very well at their new clubs) together with Charlie Adam to show that now he'd steadied us, he wanted to add some flair and creativity to things.

So yes, far more than a firefighter. And more than a hoofball merchant too.

[Jimmy612]

And again, this thread won't rest while people continue to makwe wildly inaccurate statements like this.

Getting a Bolton team from 9th place in Division One, successfully fighting relegation in the first two seasons after they came up, and then for the following four seasons combined being the best team in the top flight outside the big four is the complete polar opposite of being a "get us out of trouble firefighter".

Although the circumstances were different for Rovers and we'd been a good team the season before, he still did the initial "firefighting" (the only thing you seem to give him credit for), had us comfortably clear of the drop by the end of the season, built on this success to have us 10th this season, and then started the first 17 games (ie almost half of the season) with a record that translated into 33 games would have us 9th at the moment.

His Bolton team initially warranted their long ball "hoofball" tag, as he first built a solid defence and a side who could avoid defeat in order to stay up. However after this, he brought in the likes of Okocha and Djorkaeff who combined with the likes of Nolan to make them very good in midfield. In this stages they might not have played like Barca but they certainly weren't hoofball either - if they were those players wouldnt have had anything like the success they did as they wouldve been incompatible with the system. Unfortunately the hoofball tag stuck.

Similarly with Rovers, last season the football was aesthetically pretty poor until the latter stages. But he got results. And you only need to look at the transfer targets he had in mind (if he'd had the money to be able to see them through) - Raul and Guti (who have both done very well at their new clubs) together with Charlie Adam to show that now he'd steadied us, he wanted to add some flair and creativity to things.

So yes, far more than a firefighter. And more than a hoofball merchant too.

Bravo

[John]

And again, this thread won't rest while people continue to makwe wildly inaccurate statements like this.

Getting a Bolton team from 9th place in Division One, successfully fighting relegation in the first two seasons after they came up, and then for the following four seasons combined being the best team in the top flight outside the big four is the complete polar opposite of being a "get us out of trouble firefighter".

Although the circumstances were different for Rovers and we'd been a good team the season before, he still did the initial "firefighting" (the only thing you seem to give him credit for), had us comfortably clear of the drop by the end of the season, built on this success to have us 10th this season, and then started the first 17 games (ie almost half of the season) with a record that translated into 33 games would have us 9th at the moment.

His Bolton team initially warranted their long ball "hoofball" tag, as he first built a solid defence and a side who could avoid defeat in order to stay up. However after this, he brought in the likes of Okocha and Djorkaeff who combined with the likes of Nolan to make them very good in midfield. In this stages they might not have played like Barca but they certainly weren't hoofball either - if they were those players wouldnt have had anything like the success they did as they wouldve been incompatible with the system. Unfortunately the hoofball tag stuck.

Similarly with Rovers, last season the football was aesthetically pretty poor until the latter stages. But he got results. And you only need to look at the transfer targets he had in mind (if he'd had the money to be able to see them through) - Raul and Guti (who have both done very well at their new clubs) together with Charlie Adam to show that now he'd steadied us, he wanted to add some flair and creativity to things.

So yes, far more than a firefighter. And more than a hoofball merchant too.

If individuals could somehow manage to put their personal dislike of the man aside, they would accept he is a very good manager.....

[Jimmy612]

If individuals could somehow manage to put their personal dislike of the man aside, they would accept he is a very good manager.....

The media really have been @#/?s with tagging him with the hoofball thing. A real shame when you consider his acheivments at the only club where he was given long enough to form his own team. He was getting there with Blackburn, and with some financial backing, might just have made a very decent team out of us.

Of course people want to see 'entertainment' when they pay the cheapest prices in the division