[Archived] Sam Allardyce Messiah or simply a good manager?

[thenodrog]

sam must be laughing all the way to the bank. Being sacked is the best thing thats happened to him in years. He's been paid off and each month since has seen his reputation enhanced in football circles.

[HemelRover]

sam must be laughing all the way to the bank. Being sacked is the best thing thats happened to him in years. He's been paid off and each month since has seen his reputation enhanced in football circles.

Oh, sorry. Have I missed him becoming a manager of a bigger side than Rovers. Or a side on equal standings to Rovers. Or even a smaller side than Rovers?

[jim mk2]

Oh, sorry. Have I missed him becoming a manager of a bigger side than Rovers. Or a side on equal standings to Rovers. Or even a smaller side than Rovers?

You're missing the point as usual.

Ferguson and Redknapp warned of big trouble ahead when Venky's sacked Sam and with every passing week, as Rovers lurch every closer to the Championship under the hapless Kean, if you read the press and the electronic media more and more experienced football watchers and commentators are coming to realise the bloody good job he was doing at Ewood to keep a smallish under-funded club in the Premier League.

He may or may not have been offered another job but he doesn't need to work and quite frankly I don't think he gives two hoots - he's probably at his villa in Spain now counting his pay-off laughing at the stupidity of our owners.

[John]

Sam is in Dubai at the moment.

[thenodrog]

Oh, sorry. Have I missed him becoming a manager of a bigger side than Rovers. Or a side on equal standings to Rovers. Or even a smaller side than Rovers?

Care for a wager that he gets another possition by next january? There are always clubs every season that need a manager with Allardyces abilities. I'm as certain as I can be that WHU would have been easily out of danger if they'd taken him on at Christmas. Villa too would have beneffitted more from him than from Houllier. Trouble is a lot of clubs and their supporters have silly romantic notions of how they perceive that football should be played at their club. It's an airy fairy shallow thinking version of the throw enough mud and some will stick principle.

If somebody nicks Moyes Allardyce would fit in at Everton like a glove. They've not played with two strikers since Adam was a lad, but unlike us they've always had just enough backing to maintain a strong and talented midfield.

[A cup of beans]

If somebody nicks Moyes Allardyce would fit in at Everton like a glove.

there would be uproar at goodison if sam got the job there. everton arent an attractive team to watch by any means, but sam is disliked by the majority of football fans... you only have to listen to phone-ins for peoples opinions.

when he was linked to the west ham job. despite their desperate situation they would rather have avram grant incharge (even if it meant going down).

[Silencio]

there would be uproar at goodison if sam got the job there. everton arent an attractive team to watch by any means, but sam is disliked by the majority of football fans... you only have to listen to phone-ins for peoples opinions.

when he was linked to the west ham job. despite their desperate situation they would rather have avram grant incharge (even if it meant going down).

There would be a number of fans at any club who would be against Sam because of his reputation but after some time you would find that most fans would come round to him, especially if they were in financial difficulties as Everton are and Bolton and us were under Sam. That's because he's a good manager, unlike Avram Grant. IMO, he is about as good as Moyes is...

It was only the idiots who wanted Sam out here and look how stupid they look now.

[A cup of beans]

There would be a number of fans at any club who would be against Sam because of his reputation but after some time you would find that most fans would come round to him, especially if they were in financial difficulties as Everton are and Bolton and us were under Sam. That's because he's a good manager, unlike Avram Grant. IMO, he is about as good as Moyes is...

It was only the idiots who wanted Sam out here and look how stupid they look now.

fans would come round..? not sure if they would put up with the dross we had too. there were certainly plenty of rovers fans who had become fed up of the lack of entertainment etc... .

newcastle fans on mass never took to him... and put it this way, i dont expect sam to get a big job with a decent historical premier league club.

i wanted him out...at the time and probably like the owners, i didnt expect us to become embroiled in a relegation scrap.

i dont miss him. his style of play, his interviews and his contempt for rovers fans. but thats been well documented on here, im not getting into that again.

providing rovers stay up, (which i still expect us to do) and appoint a high calibre manager for next season... the decision to sack him at rovers will be forgotten and we can move on.

[Parsonblue]

providing rovers stay up, (which i still expect us to do) and appoint a high calibre manager for next season... the decision to sack him at rovers will be forgotten and we can move on.

And if Venkys are true to their word and Kean is still our manager at the start of next season what then? Or are Venkys lying when they say he will still be manager at the start of next season?

[John]

Always find it quite strange when attractive passing football is mentioned as if so many clubs in the Premier League play it and continually succeed, it just doesnt happen.

Sam had an eye for flair players as his time at Bolton showed. Also, he had a thing for marquee signings too - he never had the time, or finance needed these days, to fully develop us.

For me the sacking of Sam was more down to the fact he would never work within the crude conflict of interest model currently being deployed (SEM/Kentaro) any decent/proven manager likes control and you would not get that if you are current working under muppets aka Venkys.

[greco]

fans would come round..? not sure if they would put up with the dross we had too. there were certainly plenty of rovers fans who had become fed up of the lack of entertainment etc... .

newcastle fans on mass never took to him... and put it this way, i dont expect sam to get a big job with a decent historical premier league club.

i wanted him out...at the time and probably like the owners, i didnt expect us to become embroiled in a relegation scrap.

i dont miss him. his style of play, his interviews and his contempt for rovers fans. but thats been well documented on here, im not getting into that again.

providing rovers stay up, (which i still expect us to do) and appoint a high calibre manager for next season... the decision to sack him at rovers will be forgotten and we can move on.

his contempt for rovers fans, how on earth do you know that.?

in my view its seems, that it is you who dislike sam, rather then sam disliking rovers fans.

[Silencio]

fans would come round..? not sure if they would put up with the dross we had too. there were certainly plenty of rovers fans who had become fed up of the lack of entertainment etc... .

newcastle fans on mass never took to him... and put it this way, i dont expect sam to get a big job with a decent historical premier league club.

i wanted him out...at the time and probably like the owners, i didnt expect us to become embroiled in a relegation scrap.

i dont miss him. his style of play, his interviews and his contempt for rovers fans. but thats been well documented on here, im not getting into that again.

providing rovers stay up, (which i still expect us to do) and appoint a high calibre manager for next season... the decision to sack him at rovers will be forgotten and we can move on.

The dross we had to put up with? We were doing fine, weren't losing at home and were operating on a heavily negative budget. Allardyce had brought Jones through and was starting to get Hoillet playing well after 16 months of getting him ready for Premier League football.

A further investment in backroom staff and maybe a couple of players for the first team and we would be in the top 8 or 9 now (like Moyes' Everton side). Instead you got your wish and Venky's fired him and where are we now.

Newcastle fans didn't take to him but he did fine there and would have done well if they had kept him. Instead, they fired him and got relegation.

[A cup of beans]

And if Venkys are true to their word and Kean is still our manager at the start of next season what then? Or are Venkys lying when they say he will still be manager at the start of next season?

if kean is still incharge next season.. i would be worried and my stance would change.

BUT, reading between the lines and the owners inferring they will look at things again in the summer, i expect kean to be replaced.

im giving them chance to deliver on their promises... and im hopeful that those plans and visions will be outlined to rovers fans in the close season

his contempt for rovers fans, how on earth do you know that.?

in my view its seems, that it is you who dislike sam, rather then sam disliking rovers fans.

the contempt for our loyal travelling support was evident in his attitude in away games (im not getting into that again.. my views are well documented.. in this thread and the entertainment thread.

The dross we had to put up with? We were doing fine, weren't losing at home and were operating on a heavily negative budget. Allardyce had brought Jones through and was starting to get Hoillet playing well after 16 months of getting him ready for Premier League football.

A further investment in backroom staff and maybe a couple of players for the first team and we would be in the top 8 or 9 now (like Moyes' Everton side). Instead you got your wish and Venky's fired him and where are we now.

Newcastle fans didn't take to him but he did fine there and would have done well if they had kept him. Instead, they fired him and got relegation.

ive explained my views in the previous post.

[John]

A further investment in backroom staff and maybe a couple of players for the first team and we would be in the top 8 or 9 now (like Moyes' Everton side). Instead you got your wish and Venky's fired him and where are we now.

zaccaius, you got your wish, no Sam, and are seeing first hand the consequences - hope you are enjoying the more entertaining away matches and our results in general.

[den]

i dont miss him. his style of play, his interviews and his contempt for rovers fans. but thats been well documented on here, im not getting into that again.

the contempt for our loyal travelling support was evident in his attitude in away games (im not getting into that again.. my views are well documented.. in this thread and the entertainment thread.

Debate isn't a strength of yours, is it.

[A cup of beans]

Sam had an eye for flair players as his time at Bolton showed. Also, he had a thing for marquee signings too - he never had the time, or finance needed these days, to fully develop us.

difficult for marquee signings with us, but with his contacts and eyes for a bargain (which he showed in the purchases of givet and nzonzi) he certainly couldve added more flair to the team.. he had 2 years.

[den]

difficult for marquee signings with us, but with his contacts and eyes for a bargain (which he showed in the purchases of givet and nzonzi) he certainly couldve added more flair to the team.. he had 2 years.

and a massively negative transfer budget. Allardyce was forced to take millions of pounds worth of talent out of the team. Did well to take us forward under those circumstances. Still, you got what you thought was the right decision in Sam being sacked and look where we are now. Done for.

Congratulations in your naievity.

[Gav]

Debate isn't a strength of yours, is it.

I think he's more than made his point, a 100 times or more, as have the Allardyce lovers Den.

[A cup of beans]

Debate isn't a strength of yours, is it.

debate is den... but im sick of typing the same thing over and over...

that's the reason!

and a massively negative transfer budget. Allardyce was forced to take millions of pounds worth of talent out of the team. Did well to take us forward under those circumstances. Still, you got what you thought was the right decision in Sam being sacked and look where we are now. Done for.

Congratulations in your naievity.

so he can find a bargain defender and a talent in an unknown defensinve midfielder.. but he cant find a flair player???

come on!

[Silencio]

difficult for marquee signings with us, but with his contacts and eyes for a bargain (which he showed in the purchases of givet and nzonzi) he certainly couldve added more flair to the team.. he had 2 years.

don't be stupid. half of the 2 years was spent clearing up Ince's mess and saving us from relegation. He then had to sell RSC and had no budget in the summer just gone. 2 years was only the first phase of any decent job Sam could have done with the constraints he had put on him.

Venky's could have given him the opportunity to speed up the rebuilding job, they chose to undo it all and fire him. A decision you and a few others on here seem to fully support.

I would ask you to look at the job he did with Bolton, who gave him time to build a base before he started signing the "flair" players. I would also ask you to look at Newcastle, who didn't and then look at what happened to them.

Back to the Rovers and I would point to the signings of Chimbonda and Kalinic as being Sam's only real downfalls and I still think Kalinic might have something about him, somewhere.

[John]

debate is den... but im sick of typing the same thing over and over...

that's the reason!

so he can find a bargain defender and a talent in an unknown defensinve midfielder.. but he cant find a flair player???

come on!

If only the transfer market was that easy, you need to look at reality, all managers say you need a considerable amount of money to make your team a constant force, also keeping your best players usually helps too - the results to date since Sam has left does not really assist with your thinking, keep making your point though.

[A cup of beans]

If only the transfer market was that easy, you need to look at reality, all managers say you need a considerably amount of money to make your team a constant force, also keeping your best players usually helps too - the results to date since Sam has left does not really assist with your thinking, keep making your point though.

not saying its easy... but there is lots of untapped talent out there.

i dont believe that all creative players cost a fortune, and im sure you dont... deep down!

don't be stupid. half of the 2 years was spent clearing up Ince's mess and saving us from relegation. He then had to sell RSC and had no budget in the summer just gone. 2 years was only the first phase of any decent job Sam could have done with the

Back to the Rovers and I would point to the signings of Chimbonda and Kalinic as being Sam's only real downfalls and I still think Kalinic might have something about him, somewhere.

again... so he can find a bargain defender and a talent in an unknown defensinve midfielder.. but he cant find a flair player???

explain that to me..

[Silencio]

not saying its easy... but there is lots of untapped talent out there.

i dont believe that all creative players cost a fortune, and im sure you dont... deep down!

You are right, there is untapped talent out there but they are harder to sign and you are better having a strong, settled side to add them to. I'm sure Allardyce would have done that, he did at Bolton where Hierro, Anelka, Okocha, Djorkaeff, Candela, Campo all did well for him once he had got the club ready for them to join.

[John]

You are surely not being serious? Attacking talent, particularly players who can score goals, usually are the most expensive!

Good players that is.

[Silencio]

not saying its easy... but there is lots of untapped talent out there.

i dont believe that all creative players cost a fortune, and im sure you dont... deep down!

again... so he can find a bargain defender and a talent in an unknown defensinve midfielder.. but he cant find a flair player???

explain that to me..

the fact that you are using terms like "bargain defender", "unknown defensive midfielder" and "flair player" suggests to me you don't really know much about football but I will help you out.

It's easier to find decent, steady defenders or midfielders to "do a job" as Sam did with Givet and Nzonzi. It's more difficult to add "flair players" who can consistently perform in a team containing lightweight but willing players like Pedersen, Dunn, Emerton, Grella, and Keith Andrews.

Given time to phase those lot out and sign stronger players then I am sure Sam would have added some more creative types or brought Hoillet on even more. He started it with Olsson last year, if you remember.