[Archived] Sam Allardyce Messiah or simply a good manager?

[John]

Of course, every manager likes to spend money - however namely, Sparky, Sam and David Moyes have said the transfer market has become more difficult in recent years.

Even clubs with major finances available have found it difficult.

[den]

I think he's more than made his point, a 100 times or more, as have the Allardyce lovers Den.

and the ill judged/naieve Allardyce haters Gav.

[A cup of beans]

You are surely not being serious? Attacking talent, particularly players who can score goals, usually are the most expensive!

Good players that is.

i surely am.

i was responding to the fact that a poster said "had not enough time... or money to sign flair players"

2 years is plenty of time... sam has an eye for a bargain... and i refuse to believe that he needed fortunes to find one.

[DE.]

Flair players were not what we needed during Allardyce's tenure. Following the Ince debacle we required a steady defence and a solid team of grafters, and that is what we got. Even this season the team was not ready to expand and play with any kind of flair, as shown by our pitiful slump since Allardyce left. It is conceivable that Allardyce would have added a creative player or two at some point within the next couple of seasons to compliment Junior/Olsson, but the foundations need to be solid before indulging in those types of players. I think Allardyce was still working on that part of the equation and was only going to bring in a flair player if he felt they were experienced enough to handle playing in such a creatively void squad - ie. Raul. Unfortunately such players don't generally come cheap, whether in wages or transfer fees.

[A cup of beans]

Flair players were not what we needed during Allardyce's tenure. Following the Ince debacle we required a steady defence and a solid team of grafters, and that is what we got. Even this season the team was not ready to expand and play with any kind of flair, as shown by our pitiful slump since Allardyce left. It is conceivable that Allardyce would have added a creative player or two at some point within the next couple of seasons to compliment Junior/Olsson, but the foundations need to be solid before indulging in those types of players. I think Allardyce was still working on that part of the equation and was only going to bring in a flair player if he felt they were experienced enough to handle playing in such a creatively void squad - ie. Raul. Unfortunately such players don't generally come cheap, whether in wages or transfer fees.

a reason for him not signing a flair player, may have been... sam didnt think flair players fitted into his systems and ethos.

he managed to fit them in at bolton... so im surprised he couldnt/ or didnt at rovers.

[Kelbo]

the fact that you are using terms like "bargain defender", "unknown defensive midfielder" and "flair player" suggests to me you don't really know much about football but I will help you out.

It's easier to find decent, steady defenders or midfielders to "do a job" as Sam did with Givet and Nzonzi. It's more difficult to add "flair players" who can consistently perform in a team containing lightweight but willing players like Pedersen, Dunn, Emerton, Grella, and Keith Andrews.

Given time to phase those lot out and sign stronger players then I am sure Sam would have added some more creative types or brought Hoillet on even more. He started it with Olsson last year, if you remember.

Interestingly, Mourinho, one of the best managers in the game, couldnt allow his Real side to open out with flair against Barca and they spend close on 100million per year, there are not many flair players out there and where there are, the price would be ridiculous or high wages for a 34 year old.

[Silencio]

a reason for him not signing a flair player, may have been... sam didnt think flair players fitted into his systems and ethos.

he managed to fit them in at bolton... so im surprised he couldnt/ or didnt at rovers.

Read through the last few posts properly and you will know why he didn't sign "flair players". He managed to fit them in at Bolton because he had been given the time to have the club ready for them to come.

Ince had just taken us back four years when Allardyce arrived and 2 years was not much time at all to rebuild us. Read DE4 Life's post and you will be reading something very sensible and obviously based on real knowledge of the game.

[John]

a reason for him not signing a flair player, may have been... sam didnt think flair players fitted into his systems and ethos.

he managed to fit them in at bolton... so im surprised he couldnt/ or didnt at rovers.

More to do with not having the finances to do so.

Actually, come to think of it, I am sitting here in disbelief that with a Zero transfer budget last summer he did not try and buy a flair player.

[DE.]

a reason for him not signing a flair player, may have been... sam didnt think flair players fitted into his systems and ethos.

he managed to fit them in at bolton... so im surprised he couldnt/ or didnt at rovers.

A flair player didn't really fit into the system or ethos he was using for us.

At Bolton the flair players didn't start to arrive until 2/3 years into his reign. I think that if we'd finished top half again this season Allardyce would have considered the defensive side solid and perhaps looked to expand his system similar to his Bolton tenure by bringing in some creatively-minded players. Obviously that's just speculation and conjucture on my part, as unfortunately we'll never know what his future plans for us were.

[A cup of beans]

More to do with not having the finances to do so.

Actually, come to think of it, I am sitting here in disbelief that with a Zero transfer budget last summer he did not try and buy a flair player.

this seasons budget mustve made it difficult... but still not impossible.

maybe he couldve AT LEAST TRIED looking for an out of contract player ??

loaning someone... ?? instead of the useless mame diouf... (personal opinion).

again.. 2 years.

[John]

this seasons budget mustve made it difficult... but still not impossible.

maybe he couldve AT LEAST TRIED signing an out of contract player ??

loaning someone... ?? instead of the useless mame diouf... (personal opinion).

again.. 2 years.

I am sure he would have loved to have signed more players even on free transfers - however the board at the time were reluctant to spend money, or add to the wage bill, because of the takeover talks.

[Gav]

and the ill judged/naieve Allardyce haters Gav.

When did I say I hated Allardyce

[AggyBlue]

When did I say I hated Allardyce

The new term for someone who hates Allerdyce is a Gav.

That's how many times you've said/alluded to it.

[Gav]

The new term for someone who hates Allerdyce is a Gav.

That's how many times you've said/alluded to it.

Fame at last

[92er]

Fame at last

But only on a message board

..... so far.

[Gav]

But only on a message board

..... so far.

You've heard then

[den]

When did I say I hated Allardyce

No wonder you blush.

The new term for someone who hates Allerdyce is a Gav.

That's how many times you've said/alluded to it.

"A Gav"

[tony gale's mic]

a reason for him not signing a flair player, may have been... sam didnt think flair players fitted into his systems and ethos.

he managed to fit them in at bolton... so im surprised he couldnt/ or didnt at rovers.

Sam's confirmed transfer targets from the summer onwards almost solely consisted of flair players.

He had a clear plan to make Rovers into a solid team defensively first (hence Givet, N'Zonzi, Salgado) before adding some creative players in later on.

[blue_and_white]

At the end of the day we were shocking in the 6 months before Allardyce and have been shocking in the 6 months after him. Doesn't that tell you something good football obsessives? Doesn't it tell you that trying to outplay teams with a weaker side doesn't work? Doesn't it shatter a few delusions that Rovers are a team with quality?

Operating on a shoestring budget gives you shoestring quality and that has been our situation, still yet to be corrected by Venkys, for at least 3 years. Sam worked wonders with what he had and Ince and Kean have both proven that fact beyond all doubt. But yeah anti-Sam brigade, keep whining that we didn't play like Bolton under Coyle, thats realistic when Johan Elmander cost more than our entire starting 11 against City.

[John]

Former Bolton and Blackburn manager Sam Allardyce says he was poised and ready to undertake his first coaching job in the UAE last summer, if not for contractual obligations at Blackburn Rovers, the club which later sacked him.

Asked to comment on his removal from Blackburn by their new Indian owners Venkys, Allardyce said: "The club didn't see me as a part of their future plans, what more can I say. They decided to terminate my employment without any real discussion with me, or opportunity for me to show them how to become a top-five football club. I wanted the same thing they did, but these things don't just happen overnight.

"The decision to terminate my contract was made well before they joined the club in my opinion because of how quickly I was removed once they took over."

[imy9]

"I was ready to make the move to Al Ahli."

[tony gale's mic]

Big deal if Sam wanted to leave. No one claims Sam is Mr Blackburn Rovers, not Sam himself and certainly none of the fans.

But he dealt with it in a very professional manner, we heard one or two whispers but that was about it certainly nothing from Sam himself, and he carried on doing a very good job with Rovers for the start of this season too.

Have to say though I think Dubai is a horrendous place and I'll always think a little less of people who embrace its values. But that's a different matter for a different section.

[John]

"The decision to terminate my contract was made well before they joined the club in my opinion"

[Gav]

"I was ready to make the move to Al Ahli."

He asked to leave in the summer imy, common knowledge, was chasing the money, just another reason to rejoice when he left.

The pro-Allardyce brigade said he didn't ask to leave

[tony gale's mic]

To be honest, I'd made a choice that I wouldn't jump straight back into a job after the Blackburn role and I had a couple of premier league offers immediately after I left but I turned them down because I wanted to give myself a bit of time off.

So much for no Premier League clubs after him then?