[Archived] Sam Allardyce Messiah or simply a good manager?

[Gav]

thought i was on ignore ;-)

sam wanted guti and raul, yeah both aging, but certainly players with creativity and cv´s, that would blow the rochinas and formicas out of this world. Furthermore sam wanted popov, do you rememnber him the young and creative playmaker..?

So thats 3 creative players sam wanted this summer and was reported trying to strike deals with..

or what about lewandowski, the pole who now is playing for dortmund and doing well.

You will be in you don't behave yourself

All the players you mentioned the Walker Trust wouldn't fund greco.

I'm talking about January when we actually had a chance to buy players, Allardyce drew up a list apparently, but that could be complete and utter bunkum I guess.

[John]

What does Ms Desai know, as she said herself, nothing.

[gumboots]

You will be better served to judge that on the coming ST sales Simon. That will be the acid test.

But season ticket sales will not only be affected by who manages us and what we think of them but by price. You yourself have mentioned on several occasions price rises regardless of what league we are in and probably steeper rises if we are relegated. So you can't entirely say it's the acid test unless we stay in the premier league and prices don't change or at worst only in line with inflation currently running on retail goods at about 4%. Factor in local redundancies and wage freezes and even an in line with inflation increase could be enough to mean that some at least can't afford to renew, or will wait till the last minute. Add in travel costs for many and their not renewing could be to do with a whole range of things, only one of which might be their dislike for our manager or owners. Only if they realy drop by far more than what could be reasonably expected because of economic factors will you have any kind of idea of what people are thinking.

[Gav]

Yes Gav, point taken, but we hardly set the world alight with the 'progressive' signings made in January did we? I personally find this frustrating as we already had a top ten squad in place and with the correct players bought in January should have been able to solidify that position at the very least, but other than JJ the three other lads have contributed diddly squat and cannot be classed by anyone as useful signings to date.

Yes you could be right onlyonejackwalker, but I think we had nowhere near a top 10 squad in place, we had more than our fair share of luck last season to reach those heady heights in my opinion.

As for Keans signings in January, 2 of them are for the future and RSC and Jones should have been impact players, one worked one didn’t, but lets not forget Allardyce wanted RSC also.

The sides in ‘transition’ or something like that Lets see what happens in the summer, if we stay up.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Yes you could be right onlyonejackwalker, but I think we had nowhere near a top 10 squad in place, we had more than our fair share of luck last season to reach those heady heights in my opinion.

As for Keans signings in January, 2 of them are for the future and RSC and Jones should have been impact players, one worked one didn’t, but lets not forget Allardyce wanted RSC also.

The sides in ‘transition’ or something like that Lets see what happens in the summer, if we stay up.

Well we did finish 10th so that is beyond argument, although I am aware others strengthened again this year. And yes we did enjoy some luck at the end which gained a few unexpected points and took us to that position.

But on the flip side, we all know the length of the season and if through dietary expertise, fitness, mental strength, we were able to gain points at the ned of the season as others tailed away then they count just the same as points gained earlier in the season.

I am not sure it was wise to have focued on the future with the two new signings in January, as they have been little to no use in keeping us up and the future will look very different if we are ultimately relegated.

[greco]

You will be in you don't behave yourself

All the players you mentioned the Walker Trust wouldn't fund greco.

I'm talking about January when we actually had a chance to buy players, Allardyce drew up a list apparently, but that could be complete and utter bunkum I guess.

admit it, you missed me

ah come on gav, your reply is way too lightweight and you know it.

it doesnt matter if the trust wouldnt pay up, we are talking about sam´s preferred targets and comparing them to kean´s.

what we do know is, that guti, raul, popov and lewandowski were linked. Even you must admit, it must seem logical, that our style would be more mixed, had sam´s wishes been fulfilled. Whether it was january or summer, doesnt really matter, as those targets must somewhat prove, the kind of players sam wanted.

IMO Sam wanted a well organized defence/team and when that was accomplished, he sought out to take the next step. Which was expanding our attacking options, with flair/creative players, hence his summmertargets. Cant see any logical reason - to think - that sam, all of sudden wanted 11 james beattie´s in january.

The whole theory of, "we dont want sam to spend our money", imo is quite far fetched and quite simply lacks reasoning.

[imy9]

What does Ms Desai know, as she said herself, nothing.

I recall an interview not too long ago where the reporter was shocked that she knew all the players, their strengths, positions, contractual matters without looking it up, so I think you can put this 'she does not know anything' line to bed.

Greco- Popov flying high in Turkey, The Pole 8 goals in 31 at Dortmund, neither great successes. Keans list contained Ronadinho and Fabiano- bad signings?

[47er]

I recall an interview not too long ago where the reporter was shocked that she knew all the players, their strengths, positions, contractual matters without looking it up, so I think you can put this 'she does not know anything' line o bed.

So-if its not her fault, its Kean's then? Since she obviously knows her football well, Kean has let her down.

Or--she doesn't know much about football and appointed a lemon.

[Gav]

Well we did finish 10th so that is beyond argument, although I am aware others strengthened again this year. And yes we did enjoy some luck at the end which gained a few unexpected points and took us to that position.

But on the flip side, we all know the length of the season and if through dietary expertise, fitness, mental strength, we were able to gain points at the ned of the season as others tailed away then they count just the same as points gained earlier in the season.

I am not sure it was wise to have focued on the future with the two new signings in January, as they have been little to no use in keeping us up and the future will look very different if we are ultimately relegated.

You certainbly can't argue with the fact we finished 10th, although some on here would try given half the chance

Maybe Kean felt we just couldn't miss out on Rochina and Formica? who knows?

[chris]

I recall an interview not too long ago where the reporter was shocked that she knew all the players, their strengths, positions, contractual matters without looking it up, so I think you can put this 'she does not know anything' line o bed.

wish he asked her to explain offsisde

[den]

I recall an interview not too long ago where the reporter was shocked that she knew all the players, their strengths, positions, contractual matters without looking it up, so I think you can put this 'she does not know anything' line o bed.

[imy9]

So-if its not her fault, its Kean's then? Since she obviously knows her football well, Kean has let her down.

Or--she doesn't know much about football and appointed a lemon.

Fault lies with the manager, she has used agents to help her but I sense she is learning- she is very smart and successful- wait til the summer I have a feeling major changes are afoot.

[Gav]

admit it, you missed me

it doesnt matter if the trust wouldnt pay up, we are talking about sam´s preferred targets and comparing them to kean´s.

what we do know is, that guti, raul, popov and lewandowski were linked. Even you must admit, it must seem logical, that our style would be more mixed, had sam´s wishes been fulfilled. Whether it was january or summer, doesnt really matter, as those targets must somewhat prove, the kind of players sam wanted.

IMO Sam wanted a well organized defence/team and when that was accomplished, he sought out to take the next step. Which was expanding our attacking options, with flair/creative players, hence his summmertargets. Cant see any logical reason - to think - that sam, all of sudden wanted 11 james beattie´s in january.

The whole theory of, "we dont want sam to spend our money", imo is quite far fetched and quite simply lacks reasoning.

I did miss you greco

So Allardyce was after Guti, Raul, Popov and Lewandowski, by the same token we could say Kean was after Ronaldiho, Fabiano, Adriano and David Beckham.

Which covers all of the above mentioned

[greco]

I did miss you greco

So Allardyce was after Guti, Raul, Popov and Lewandowski, by the same token we could say Kean was after Ronaldiho, Fabiano, Adriano and David Beckham.

Which covers all of the above mentioned

im not quite sure, if that really is by the same token gav and deep down you know it. Kean had absolutely nothing to do, with the so called marquee signings/pr stunts, unless he all of a sudden grew a ponytail, a mustache to boot and had a slight change in skincolour

nontheless a good effort gav and dare i say , actually had me laughing a bit.

[chris]

Doesn't appear that way now given the fullness of time. Hodgson with 3 high profile Prem jobs in 4 years v Sven destined to grubbing around the lower leagues for his next pay packet.

Hodgson CV does not compare to Sven even if he has taken it easy for a few years, when Hodgson got us relegated Sven won the serie A title and cup winners cup, super cup and the coppa italia twice.

Hodgson DESTORYED us.

[Gav]

im not quite sure, if that really is by the same token gav and deep down you know it. Kean had absolutely nothing to do, with the so called marquee signings/pr stunts, unless he all of a sudden grew a ponytail, a mustache to boot and had a slight change in skincolour

nontheless a good effort gav and dare i say , actually had me laughing a bit.

All we need now is a win today and I'll have had a bloody marvellous day!

[bob fleming]

There's nothing else left to do really Den. The mind boggles. I'm sure it won't be long now before we have Mrs Desai sat on the panel on Soccer Saturday, or how's about Mrs Desai's Tactics Truck?

[47er]

Fault lies with the manager, she has used agents to help her but I sense she is learning- she is very smart and successful- wait til the summer I have a feeling major changes are afoot.

Interesting viewpoint. Most people I speak to blame Venkys most for appointing Kean to a position beyond his experience and ability.

[gumboots]

There's nothing else left to do really Den. The mind boggles. I'm sure it won't be long now before we have Mrs Desai sat on the panel on Soccer Saturday, or how's about Mrs Desai's Tactics Truck?

Could it be worse than andy Townsend's?

[Mattyblue]

Fail = Relegation.

Success = Stay in the division. Rebuild over the summer.

It has to be a success because almost to a man, e dry single person who was against the sacking of Sam said we WOULD be relegated. Now they are changing the goalposts. Before it was the case that we need his pragmatic style to stay in the division, yet somehow it looks more than likely we will be kept in the division by an inexperienced nobody.

So in fact, his messiah status is bollix.

Err maybe something to do with having a good points tally in the bag when Kean took over?

If Kean had been in charge since August we would be already relegated.

Time to step away from the PC again Buckster.

Hodgson CV does not compare to Sven even if he has taken it easy for a few years, when Hodgson got us relegated Sven won the serie A title and cup winners cup, super cup and the coppa italia twice.

Hodgson DESTORYED us.

No he didn't we finished 6th in the table and then had a poor start, the appointment of Kidd destroyed us.

[chris]

Could it be worse than andy Townsend's?

I hate Gareth Crooks, Mrs D would be better then him.

[Mattyblue]

I recall an interview not too long ago where the reporter was shocked that she knew all the players, their strengths, positions, contractual matters without looking it up, so I think you can put this 'she does not know anything' line to bed.

Pahahahahahahahahaha. That is your best post yet.

Actually I take that back, she has probably been listening to the Chuckle Brothers cooing over Barca for years. Proper football people.

[chris]

No he didn't we finished 6th in the table and then had a poor start, the appointment of Kidd destroyed us.

Both did

Hodgson 1998/99:

Davies 7.5 million

Perez 3 million

Dailly 5.4 million

Blake 4.5 million

Corbett 500k

Replaced Hendry with Gavin Peacock.

unbelieveably horrible signings, massive part of our downfall.

Hodgson got 9 points from 14 games.

[BuckyRover]

Err maybe something to do with having a good points tally in the bag when Kean took over?

If Kean had been in charge since August we would be already relegated.

Time to step away from the PC again Buckster.

No he didn't we finished 6th in the table and then had a poor start, the appointment of Kidd destroyed us.

I think I will.

It's a pathetic little place anyway.

I may pop back now and again. To find the same things being said, over and over and over again.

[chocky]

I hate Gareth Crooks, Mrs D would be better then him.

Garth Crooks is a clown..WTF is he still doing as a pundit anywhere on T.V.