[Archived] Sam Allardyce Messiah or simply a good manager?

[A cup of beans]

Sam's away record last season was within 3 points of every club outside the top 8 and Stoke.

It was also marginally better than Coyle's away record this season, but only the most idiotic Bolton fans would use that as a reason for his dismissal. Just like, it seems, only the most idiotic Rovers fans are using that as a reason for Sam's dismissal.

It was a bit below average, but no worse.

thanks TGM. i appreciate your view.. and stats.

but would be interested to know, although it was only 3 pts difference, where it had us in the standings as a whole. ie an away league table.

also be interested to know if rovers scored fewer goals and let in more than those other top 8 teams, id wager that that would be the case.

i know for a fact rovers away under sam were pitiful and cant remember an entertaining away game under him, correction; apart from hull away when andrews scored.. played well that day.

[Mattyblue]

Sadly, looking at the future, while Sam divided opinion amongst supporters I feel little is going to change under Venky's and Kean. At the moment we are a divided fanbase with little chance of that changing if our owners opt to do as they say they intend to do and stick with Kean.

Are we that divided under Kean? The last few months has seen the fanbase split between those that wanted Kean out immediately and those that want him gone as soon as the season ends.

[A cup of beans]

The difference is that Ewood became a fortress again under Sam while it's open house for the opposition under Kean.

open house is a bit strong.. admittedly its not the fotress it was under sam, but keans record isnt open house,, we havent been losing heavily (at home).

kean's lost 2 tough home games, city and tottenham (where we played well in both, particularly spurs),

and a shocking defeat to stoke at home, when we were awful.

rest of the games have been 2 wins against LFC and bolton and the rest draws.

although the draws against blackpool and birmingham were disappointing.. the fact that we drew them (and didnt lose) will probably have ensured our survival. and kean can point to some dodgy refereeing decisions against both blackpool and birmingham.

[robbo_rovers]

open house is a bit strong.. admittedly its not the fotress it was under sam, but keans record isnt open house,, we havent been losing heavily (at home).

kean's lost 2 tough home games, city and tottenham (where we played well in both, particularly spurs),

and a shocking defeat to stoke at home, when we were awful.

rest of the games have been 2 wins against LFC and bolton and the rest draws.

although the draws against blackpool and birmingham were disappointing.. the fact that we drew them (and didnt lose) will probably have ensured our survival. and kean can point to some dodgy refereeing decisions against both blackpool and birmingham.

We also lost at home to Stoke and beat West Brom.

[Parsonblue]

open house is a bit strong.. admittedly its not the fotress it was under sam, but keans record isnt open house,, we havent been losing heavily (at home).

kean's lost 2 tough home games, city and tottenham (where we played well in both, particularly spurs),

and a shocking defeat to stoke at home, when we were awful.

rest of the games have been 2 wins against LFC and bolton and the rest draws.

although the draws against blackpool and birmingham were disappointing.. the fact that we drew them (and didnt lose) will probably have ensured our survival. and kean can point to some dodgy refereeing decisions against both blackpool and birmingham.

One win in the best part of four months has more to do with a dodgy manager than dodgy referees.

[A cup of beans]

We also lost at home to Stoke and beat West Brom.

missed the west brom win out, but mentioned stoke. parson,.. im lost as to your last post, pal ??

you dont think an amazing pen decision, against blackpool and 50*50 freekick, and an offside goal against birmingham has any affect of the results! ??

cos i cant remember either team having many more serious attacks in the games ?

we also lost 1-0 to city to an offside goal

[47er]

He didn't 'struggle' at Bolton.

You are showing your true colours now imy.

He showed them months ago Matty. All that ###### about "balance"!

[Parsonblue]

missed the west brom win out, but mentioned stoke. parson,.. im lost as to your last post, pal ??

you dont think an amazing pen decision, against blackpool and 50*50 freekick, and an offside goal against birmingham has any affect of the results! ??

cos i cant remember either team having many more serious attacks in the games ?

we also lost 1-0 to city to an offside goal

One win since January can't all be down to referees. The manager has to take responsibility for results. The bottom line is that Kean isn't very good at winning football matches. Without the points that Sam had won earlier in the season we would have been down and out weeks ago.

[imy9]

He showed them months ago Matty. All that ###### about "balance"!

Your posts are getting more embarrassing by the day. The number of times you have misquoted me or simply made up things that I have said extend past one hand- do you never learn? :blush:

Well done for picking up a quote from page 1 of a 52 page thread lasting 5 weeks

[Gav]

Your posts are getting more embarrassing by the day. The number of times you have misquoted me or simply made up things that I have said extend past one hand- do you never learn? :blush:

Well done for picking up a quote from page 1 of a 52 page thread lasting 5 weeks

47er is a Troll? (or at least thats T'interweb speak for a posters such as him, no idea myself) stick him on ignore, thats the best place for him

[imy9]

47er is a Troll? (or at least thats T'interweb speak for a posters such as him, no idea myself) stick him on ignore, thats the best place for him

I try not to put people on ignore but will make an exception now.

[Gav]

I try not to put people on ignore but will make an exception now.

I agree fully, only have 1 person on ignore myself and he's been there for 4yrs, its not the way forward, but sometimes you need to make an exception.

[trs]

Adolf has his say on Big sam http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xihYenQV-qg&NR=1

[Amo]

Adolf has his say on Big sam http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xihYenQV-qg&NR=1

Needed more lols, tbh.

[tony gale's mic]

thanks TGM. i appreciate your view.. and stats.

but would be interested to know, although it was only 3 pts difference, where it had us in the standings as a whole. ie an away league table.

also be interested to know if rovers scored fewer goals and let in more than those other top 8 teams, id wager that that would be the case.

i know for a fact rovers away under sam were pitiful and cant remember an entertaining away game under him, correction; apart from hull away when andrews scored.. played well that day.

Away league table we were 13th. Not remotely woeful. Under Kean we're in the relegation zone in the away league table. Now THAT is woeful. Yet you never speak of Kean's shocking away record?

You're really scraping the barrel if you're trying to put goals for/against above points won. A managers' away record is always judged on points won in relation to the other teams in the league.

You know "for a fact" Rovers away under Sam were "pitiful", but all the actual FACTS point to us being merely average. Your opinion is that we were pitiful, but that's not a fact whatsoever. That's an opinion which is made despite the facts which have been presented in front of you.

[tony gale's mic]

I only wanted Ince because I didn't want Allardyce. I knew he would divide the fans.

I said he would get sacked before the transfer window and I said we wouldn't get relegated this season with Steve Kean in charge. I don't get everything correct but I don't pretend to either. Nor do I particularly care when I get things wrong. I love BRFC but I have plenty of other things going on in my life than to get shirty about it.

You are like a walking, talking advert for BUPA. If I knew my doctor's coping strategy for dealing with stress was to belittle and ridicule people on a football message board, I would be asking for a second opinion.

You supported a manager who was getting us relegated over someone who would in all likelihood have got two successive top 10 finished with us. Why not just say you were in the wrong about Ince, rather than continually try and justify it? Clearly you do care about being wrong. I mean, look at your signature for christ's sakes!

Most people didn't think we'd definitely get relegated with Kean in charge, just that we'd get dangerously close and that things could go either way when we wouldve been easily safe otherwise. Even Jim who made the relegation thread has admitted he initially did it as a bit of a wind-up.

And I might poke fun at people's footballing opinions who clearly don't really know a fig about the game. But that's usually where it begins and ends. I'm smart enough to realise that trying to extrapolate that into a judgement about that person's day to day life really is a stupid thing to do. I mean, I could quite easily say that even if you did have the mettle to do what I did, your appalling lack of judgement would mean people would be dropping dead left right and centre.

Good job I don't make those judgements though, isnt it?

[blue_and_white]

You're really scraping the barrel if you're trying to put goals for/against above points won.

Nah come on, its well known amongst the Sam haters that a 7-1 defeat away from home is the equivalent to 6 one-goal wins. Thats just how it works in idiot land.

[tony gale's mic]

Yeah, that'd probably be another zaccaius "fact".

[A cup of beans]

You know "for a fact" Rovers away under Sam were "pitiful", but all the actual FACTS point to us being merely average. Your opinion is that we were pitiful, but that's not a fact whatsoever. That's an opinion which is made despite the facts which have been presented in front of you.

6 wins in 2 years... average! haha come on!

13th over 2 seasons were we ? you know what that means dont you? 6 teams get relegated in 2 years!

so we' were not average at all..

[tony gale's mic]

6 wins in 2 years... average! haha come on!

13th over 2 seasons were we ?

Our away record was 9th in the league in the half season after he took over.

13th in the league for his whole season in charge.

13th in the league for the 17 games before he left.

These are all facts.

Why on earth are you posting that smiley when you don't even have the cognitive ability to differentiate between fact and opinion?

Your point about 6 teams getting relegated means absolutely nothing. A team that finished 13th in two successive seasons will always be described as a "mid table" team.

Our away form was mid table. No better, no worse.

Under Kean, our away results have been relegation form.

[A cup of beans]

Our away record was 9th in the league in the half season after he took over.

13th in the league for his whole season in charge.

13th in the league for the 17 games before he left.

These are all facts.

i know all that.. i cant believe you are saying its average!

so i should thank him for those displays and performances.. with 0 entertainment in most of em..

and as for facts.. these are them plain and simple...

Sam's away record Dec 2008- DEC 2010.. PLAYED- 35- W-6- D-8- L-21- F-27- A- 71

any1 trying to defend that is doing it out of misguided loyalty!

[tony gale's mic]

i know all that.. i cant believe you are saying its average!

so i should thank him for those displays and performances.. with 0 entertainment in most of em..

and as for facts.. these are them plain and simple...

I'm saying it's average because it's very close to the average performance (well, median performance if I'm being statistically correct) for the rest of the league. Especially when we take out clubs like Man U and Chelsea who we couldnt even dream to compete with.

Why are you claiming I suggest you thank him for his away record? I'm saying that our away record wasn't awful at all. It was average.

A few terrible performances, but a few good away wins. Plus even against the big teams, we had that excellent point at Eastlands, the game at OT last season where we deserved at least a draw...we beat Villa away last game of the season to go 10th..

and as for facts.. these are them plain and simple...

Sam's away record Dec 2008- DEC 2010.. PLAYED- 35- W-6- D-8- L-21- F-27- A- 71

any1 trying to defend that is doing it out of misguided loyalty!

I could list so many clubs' away records over the last two years and they'd look very similar.

Bolton's away record this season: P 19 W 2 D 5 L 12 F 18 A 32

Do you know what the word "average" means zaccaius?

[A cup of beans]

Why are you claiming I suggest you thank him for his away record? I'm saying that our away record wasn't awful at all. It was average.

A few terrible performances, but a few good away wins. Plus even against the big teams, we had that excellent point at Eastlands, the game at OT last season where we deserved at least a draw...we beat Villa away last game of the season to go 10th..

Bolton's away record this season: P 19 W 2 D 5 L 12 F 18 A 32

Do you know what the word "average" means zaccaius?

bolton have been awful on the rd this season. terrible. not average.

a few good away wins... against very poor teams. id say very few wins,, 6!in 2 seasons!

[tony gale's mic]

bolton have been awful on the rd this season. terrible. not average.

a few good away wins... against very poor teams. id say very few wins,, 6!in 2 seasons!

Yeah, Bolton are 20th in the away league table this season. That is terrible.

Rovers were 13th throughout Sam's reign. Not terrible.

It's a pretty easy system zaccaius. You look at the overall record, you compare it to other teams in the league, and then you make a judgement on it. It's how champions are decided. It's how relegation will be decided this Sunday.

But for some reason, you appear incapable of using that simple system.

Stoke: 7 away wins in 2 seasons.

Birmingham: 7 away wins in 2 seasons.

Bolton: 6 away wins in 2 seasons.

Fulham: 4 away wins in 2 seasons.

Wigan: 6 away wins in 2 seasons.

Wolves: 7 away wins in 2 seasons.

Sunderland: 6 away wins in 2 seasons.

West Ham: 3 away wins in 2 seasons.

Do you still think our away record was especially bad, or are you actually finally going to admit you were wrong?

[blue_and_white]

Honestly TGM you have the patience of a saint. I put GAV and Zac on ignore long ago after comments that I could only generously describe as totally insane. I'll try to understand them one day if necessary but honestly, totally bonkers. Roll on a new manager and some common ground, this Kean/Allardyce split has lead me to believe some of our fans our thick as pig ****. Its like choosing between Zac Dingle and Alan Sugar and half of your mates going for Zac, weird and baffling beyong comprehension.