[Archived] Sam Allardyce Messiah or simply a good manager?

[BangkokRover]

I mean Warnock was sold to cover the wages of Salgado, as much as I like Salgado we should not have sold Warnock for that reason, we had Jacobsen and Emerton who are right backs already.

What a load of I rubbish!!!

[John]

The point is that to survive as a club pre takeover it was imperative that we bought and sold well. Sam spent £12 million on transfers, thats a sizeable kitty for a Rovers manager, what did we get for it? a striker who cannot play upfront by himself, a centre half to play at left back, a right back to play at left back! I mean Warnock was sold to cover the wages of Salgado, as much as I like Salgado we should not have sold Warnock for that reason, we had Jacobsen and Emerton who are right backs already.

Sam did a good job of keeping us up, but give it another 2 years of purchasing duds and we would be at the beginning of Hughes' reign and that dire squad.

Currently Newcastle and West Brom are in the top 10 as are Bolton, it can be done, we did not notice the lack of investment previously because the quality of players that we were purchasing was so good, you are noticing it now due to the poor signings.

You don't seem to be taking into account a fairly important point - buying quality usually costs a lot of money or should all PL teams work off a lower budget?

Hughes said it was simply not sustainable to keep buying good players for such minimal fees - Moyes said the same last summer.

You also seem to be suggesting we should have finished higher than 10th last season?

You probably fit into the Venky's way of thinking that a top 5 finish can be acheieved with spending only £5 million.

[Mattyblue]

But imy, you are speculating, the facts were the team was improving year on year- not regressing.

[davulsukur]

Saying improving year on year makes it sound like he was here for years. He kept us in the league then got us to 10th the following year. It was a great improvement, but you have no idea where we would have finished this season.

[Mattyblue]

You don't know, but as the league was tighter and we were going into the Xmas period with more points than the same stage last season you can see a pattern.

[davulsukur]

I don't know and neither do you, so you are speculating just as much as everyone else

[BangkokRover]

But imy, you are speculating, the facts were the team was improving year on year- not regressing.

He is not speculating, he is just making it up

Warnock joined Villa because Rovers has to sell him as Rovers well a selling club we paid £2.5 Million for a player and then 2 years later he was sold for double.

Saying improving year on year makes it sound like he was here for years. He kept us in the league then got us to 10th the following year. It was a great improvement, but you have no idea where we would have finished this season.

Higher than we will finish with out him this season.

[Gav]

How else in one supposed to interpret this ??

You said you enjoy watching Rovers lose.

Burnley supporter isn't an insult by the way - in your case it's a statement of fact.

Silly emoticons at the end of each sentence don't validate your argument which is still fundamentally nonsense.

Trying to deflect from your original remark over players bought by Allardyce, does you no favours sir.

Keep this up and I’ll have your nemesis Tris on the case.

[Jimmy612]

You've only been on this site since Feb

By the way I'm enjoying going to games again, loved Wigan away.

You're joking Gav? I must admit I enjoyed the opening 25 minutes, we played well. After that we capitulated and we were crap! I'm going to Everton aswell, really looking forward to the day itself. Not really sure about the result. Certainly would take a point

[rebelmswar]

I don't think anyone remembers what shape the team was in after Ince was sacked. We had been stripped of our best players, replaced by Ince with utter @#/?, Robbo aside.

He took this demoralized shell and saved us from relegation. He then built on this and got us to tenth.

He was sacked for a streak of 4 wins in 6 and, seemingly most importantly to some, bought Kalinic who is not scoring every other game - regardless of being treated like a redheaded step child and barely playing.

[Gav]

You're joking Gav? I must admit I enjoyed the opening 25 minutes, we played well. After that we capitulated and we were crap! I'm going to Everton aswell, really looking forward to the day itself. Not really sure about the result. Certainly would take a point

Going to games for us is more than just watch the match Jimmy.

We met up with some folk we only see at football, had a few beers, good laugh, grabbed SteBs arse, great day, result spoilt it slightly.

[davulsukur]

Higher than we will finish with out him this season.

In your opinion

[broadsword]

but the venkys hired a hooker at netto!

I wouldn't touch it with your's.

(Although she probably takes it up the bifta.)

[Jimmy612]

Going to games for us is more than just watch the match Jimmy.

We met up with some folk we only see at football, had a few beers, good laugh, grabbed SteBs arse, great day, result spoilt it slightly.

Surely you could have done all of this under Allardyce. Were you not enjoying your few beers and what not during Allardyces tenure?

I too am an all day kind of guy as well, meeting at the pub at half 9, then a coach to goodison, with various pub stops

[John]

Going to games for us is more than just watch the match Jimmy.

We met up with some folk we only see at football, had a few beers, good laugh, grabbed SteBs arse, great day, result spoilt it slightly.

It is important when assessing a manager to take into the account the circumstances they worked under - when Sam first came in, I am sure his thinking was not "I need to make signings who I can sell on in the summer and make a profit as this will ensure imy is happy"

It was probably more like, "I need to make signings to ensure we keep this football club in this league" - Givet and EHD worked particularly well at the time, added some much needed grit and attacking quality.

Also, last summer, having NO money to spend on new players would be generally regarded as quite challenging circumstances.

[Jimmy612]

In your opinion

Do you not share the same opinion? Are you under the impression that with Allardyce in charge we would crumbled even more spectacularly than under Kean?

[rebelmswar]

Do you not share the same opinion? Are you under the impression that with Allardyce in charge we would crumbled even more spectacularly than under Kean?

No, it would have been boring and ugly.

[imy9]

He is not speculating, he is just making it up

Warnock joined Villa because Rovers has to sell him as Rovers well a selling club we paid £2.5 Million for a player and then 2 years later he was sold for double.

Higher than we will finish with out him this season.

You need to check your facts mate, we sold Warnock to cover the wages hole of £5 million, I suggest checking it out for yourself.

JW himself said it after which he said we did not have sell anyone else.

[davulsukur]

Do you not share the same opinion? Are you under the impression that with Allardyce in charge we would crumbled even more spectacularly than under Kean?

If Sam was in charge i would personally feel that we would have a better chance at survival than we do under Kean, but unlike majority of people, i dont see it as nailed on survival. With the league being so tight i think Sam would have struggled to pull us away from the drop.

[BangkokRover]

You need to check your facts mate, we sold Warnock to cover the wages hole of £5 million, I suggest checking it out for yourself.

And that £5 million was Salgado's wages or the whole from the season before?

[imy9]

And that £5 million was Salgado's wages or the whole from the season before?

You have misinterpreted what I have said we were over our budget on wages and to pay for Salgado and co Warnock was sold.

[blue_and_white]

If Sam was in charge i would personally feel that we would have a better chance at survival than we do under Kean, but unlike majority of people, i dont see it as nailed on survival. With the league being so tight i think Sam would have struggled to pull us away from the drop.

With the league being so tight I think Sam would have found it much easier than the previous season to get into the top half. 10 more points on the board and we'd be 7th. Considering how easy Kean's first 10 games were and the fact that he's failed to beat West Ham, Stoke, Newcastle and Blackpool at home, 7th was there for the taking and thats what we'd have spent the last 6 games thinking about under Sam, not whether we were gonna get relegated.

[Gav]

Surely you could have done all of this under Allardyce. Were you not enjoying your few beers and what not during Allardyces tenure?

I too am an all day kind of guy as well, meeting at the pub at half 9, then a coach to goodison, with various pub stops

I could have done that under Allardyce Jimmy, and I did for a short while. But I soon realised that away games didn't seem to hold the same importance as home games, as did the others I went with. We all agreed that until this lack of respect for away games changed, we'd stop going away, but I must admit I didn't expect it to last past his first season, but it did.

Now people can come on and say I'm talking cr@p, and we have no idea about football, but thats how we felt as a group of fans, so to us it was the right thing to do and we voted with our feet.

[Jimmy612]

If Sam was in charge i would personally feel that we would have a better chance at survival than we do under Kean, but unlike majority of people, i dont see it as nailed on survival. With the league being so tight i think Sam would have struggled to pull us away from the drop.

I disagree, at the time of SA's sacking we were playing well. Ok the United result was a one off, but as is mentioned above, we had won 4 out of the last 6!

There are many arguments that we might have struggled this season, but if you consider our home form under Allardyce, it was certainly not relegation material. Our away form, although not great, was certainly not the worst. Did I hear 15th in the league on home form. Couple that with our ability to beat the majority of teams around us in the bottom half at ewood e.g. Villa, Wolves, Wigan this season, then you are unlikely to be looking at relegation.

If we turn that on it's head and consider Steve Keans home form, which of course we are reliant on, you see that we have acheived 7 points from an available 21 against the following teams. WHU, Stoke, WBA, Liverpool, Tottenham, Blackpool and Birmingham. Now that is very concerning indeed, and I believe the reason that we could get relegated.

[John]

I disagree, at the time of SA's sacking we were playing well. Ok the United result was a one off, but as is mentioned above, we had won 4 out of the last 6!

There are many arguments that we might have struggled this season, but if you consider our home form under Allardyce, it was certainly not relegation material. Our away form, although not great, was certainly not the worst. Did I hear 15th in the league on home form. Couple that with our ability to beat the majority of teams around us in the bottom half at ewood e.g. Villa, Wolves, Wigan this season, then you are unlikely to be looking at relegation.

If we turn that on it's head and consider Steve Keans home form, which of course we are reliant on, you see that we have acheived 7 points from an available 21 against the following teams. WHU, Stoke, WBA, Liverpool, Tottenham, Blackpool and Birmingham. Now that is very concerning indeed, and I believe the reason that we could get relegated.

I think given the league is, we could have finished very high this season - whilst our away form was obviously a concern, the results against Newcastle and Man City suggested there could be minor improvement this year.