[Archived] Sam Allardyce Messiah or simply a good manager?

[Jimmy612]

I could have done that under Allardyce Jimmy, and I did for a short while. But I soon realised that away games didn't seem to hold the same importance as home games, as did the others I went with. We all agreed that until this lack of respect for away games changed, we'd stop going away, but I must admit I didn't expect it to last past his first season, but it did.

Now people can come on and say I'm talking cr@p, and we have no idea about football, but thats how we felt as a group of fans, so to us it was the right thing to do and we voted with our feet.

I don't put it down to not being as important. Roy Hodgson and Fulham had a shocking away record, would you say this was becasue they didn't try?

Last year we came 13th in Away form table, 9th in home table. Excluding the top 6 (liverpool and Tottenham aswell as the top 4) only Everton and Fulham had better home form.

Villa, Stoke and Wolves all have worse away records than us this season.

Bolton are level on away points with us and everyone is singing Coyles praises. Fulham are also level on away points.

Home form is the most vital attribute for a team staying up, and ours was bloody good! under SA

[BangkokRover]

You have misinterpreted what I have said we were over our budget on wages and to pay for Salgado and co Warnock was sold.

It's there in black and white, what you said. Don't try to weasel your way out of your own hole.

[Gav]

I don't put it down to not being as important. Roy Hodgson and Fulham had a shocking away record, would you say this was becasue they didn't try?

Villa, Stoke and Wolves all have worse records then us this season.

Bolton are level on away points with us and everyone is singing Coyles praises.

Home form is the most vital attribute for a team staying up, and ours was bloody good! under SA

No idea about Fulham to be honest, I'm saying what I saw under Allardyce away. No plan B when going a goal down, and players strolling around without a care in the world, we’d soon had enough and no amount of stats facts and figures will change that.

I’m happy to go away under Kean, different attitude to away games, we may get beat, but we’re having a go, I don’t mind that at all.

[davulsukur]

I disagree, at the time of SA's sacking we were playing well. Ok the United result was a one off, but as is mentioned above, we had won 4 out of the last 6!

There are many arguments that we might have struggled this season, but if you consider our home form under Allardyce, it was certainly not relegation material. Our away form, although not great, was certainly not the worst. Did I hear 15th in the league on home form. Couple that with our ability to beat the majority of teams around us in the bottom half at ewood e.g. Villa, Wolves, Wigan this season, then you are unlikely to be looking at relegation.

If we turn that on it's head and consider Steve Keans home form, which of course we are reliant on, you see that we have acheived 7 points from an available 21 against the following teams. WHU, Stoke, WBA, Liverpool, Tottenham, Blackpool and Birmingham. Now that is very concerning indeed, and I believe the reason that we could get relegated.

I make it 10

WH - 1

L'pool - 3

WBA - 3

B'pool - 1

N'castle - 1

Brum - 1

As i said i would feel we have a better chance of survival under Sam, i just feel that there are far too many uncontrollable factors in football to make an assumption which most people believe to be a fact, such as - "We would have beat blackpool, brum and newcastle at home with sam in charge" its not a guarantee

and the fact that he's failed to beat West Ham, Stoke, Newcastle and Blackpool

The same west ham and stoke we failed to beat last season?

[imy9]

It's there in black and white, what you said. Don't try to weasel your way out of your own hole.

I'm not weaseling out of anything I suggest doing some research for yourself, JW said it, black and White as you say.

[BangkokRover]

I look forward to you providing that link.

I can happily believe that warnock was sold to cover a hole in the wages. But you said he was sold to pay Salagados wages which i honestly believe is not true at all.

[imy9]

Find it yourself if you don't believe it, I'd check the LET site.

[Jimmy612]

I make it 10

WH - 1

L'pool - 3

WBA - 3

B'pool - 1

N'castle - 1

Brum - 1

As i said i would feel we have a better chance of survival under Sam, i just feel that there are far too many uncontrollable factors in football to make an assumption which most people believe to be a fact, such as - "We would have beat blackpool, brum and newcastle at home with sam in charge" its not a guarantee

Sorry you're right 10 points out of 21. Well when we look at our record at home against teams around us or below then yes i believe we would have beaten them, there is little reason to suggest otherwise. Like I mentioned above, our home record was very impressive under SA, we were 9th in the prem for that including the top 6. Very few teams came to Ewood and left with anything.

A team like brfc needs good home form to build a platform on. You can't say our home form has been good since Kean arrived, especially considering the quality of opponent.

[Mattyblue]

Come off it davalsukur, you honestly believe we would not have won a game in 3 months under Allardyce?

Also, these home games have garnered zero wins: Blackpool, Newcastle, Birmingham, West Ham, Stoke. Would looking at previous form, home record, record at home against bottom half sides have led you to the conclusion that we would not have had a solitary win under Sam?

To be honest, I don't know what we are arging about any more- even Sam's biggest critics on here have accepted sacking him was a stupid decision.

[davulsukur]

We went a good month and a half without one last year which included 4 home games. And 2 months this season with only 1 win (sept & oct) ironically the only win was away from home.

Would looking at past results and form not lead you to believe that Jose Mourinho would have not lost his 9 year home record the other week, but it happened.

I never said it was a good decision to sack him, and i am not arguing with anyone. just stating my opinion.

Majority of people just beleive that we would have definately beaten those teams at home, i think that there are too many uncontrolable factors in football to believe it.

It is not beyond the realms of possibilty that Allardyce would have taken us down, there is alot of facts and figures based on his managerial record to suggest otherwise, but its no guarantee.

[chaddyrovers]

SA was a good manager for us and for what he did for the football club. I just wish that he would have been giving more time by the new owners and money to spend.

i think the owners was stupid for getting rid of him!

[chris]

I look forward to you providing that link.

I can happily believe that warnock was sold to cover a hole in the wages. But you said he was sold to pay Salagados wages which i honestly believe is not true at all.

I don't believe that either

[BangkokRover]

Don't worry Chris there will be no link forthcoming as it's simply not true.

[Mercer]

My question still stands how many of Sams signings will get us a profit? EHD- lucky to get rid on a free, Givet can't see more than 2 million, the only profit will be Nzonzi and he seems to be going backwards, Goulon, Elrio, Basturk etc duds who came and went - who cost nothing other than wages, don't buy a raffle ticket then you will never win.

[imy9]

I look forward to you providing that link.

I can happily believe that warnock was sold to cover a hole in the wages. But you said he was sold to pay Salagados wages which i honestly believe is not true at all.

I don't believe that either

Nicko: 12/08/09

"If you can't find the dough for Salgado's wages [at the moment] how would you find the dough for Negredo's transfer?"

Nicko: 26/08/09

"I think some of the Warnock money has been spent already...on Salgado's wages."

Nicko: 27/08/09

"But I do recall Sam saying there would be no more business after Salgado...and Warnock left while Pascal checked in."

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/burnley/premierleague/news/4584054.Blackburn_Rovers_chairman_answers_critics_over_transfer_cash/

"So we have filled the resulting £5m hole with the difference in transfer fees between Stephen and Pascal."

"£5m to support this season’s wage bill."

Don't worry Chris there will be no link forthcoming as it's simply not true.

Mate you said Warnock cost £5 million when it was over £7 million, instead of trying to antagonize, it might be worth while checking what you are writing yourself. On a Rafa thread you included a whole heap of information which was factually inaccurate too.

[Gav]

Don't worry Chris there will be no link forthcoming as it's simply not true.

I think this is where the information is coming from, talked about extensively on here at the time.

Salgado for Warnock

[BangkokRover]

Nicko: 12/08/09

"If you can't find the dough for Salgado's wages [at the moment] how would you find the dough for Negredo's transfer?"

Nicko: 26/08/09

"I think some of the Warnock money has been spent already...on Salgado's wages."

Nicko: 27/08/09

"But I do recall Sam saying there would be no more business after Salgado...and Warnock left while Pascal checked in."

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/burnley/premierleague/news/4584054.Blackburn_Rovers_chairman_answers_critics_over_transfer_cash/

"So we have filled the resulting £5m hole with the difference in transfer fees between Stephen and Pascal."

"£5m to support this season’s wage bill."

So we can ignore the stuff from Niko as that is not fact at all.

Here is the exact quote from JW

"So we have filled the resulting £5m hole with the difference in transfer fees between Stephen and Pascal."

Is a quote from John Williams but Sorry I can't see him mentioning Salgado anywhere?

I think this is where the information is coming from, talked about extensively on here at the time.

Salgado for Warnock

A story from Niko certainly does not make it fact.

As I said I am sure Warnock was sold to plug the wage gap and NOT as was said to pay Salgados wage. There was no reason for JW not to mention that selling Warnock would pay for the Salgados wage for the length of his contract.

I was upset that Warnock left when he left but he certainly proved that the grass is not always greener away from Ewood.

[imy9]

So we can ignore the stuff from Niko as that is not fact at all.

Here is the exact quote from JW

"So we have filled the resulting £5m hole with the difference in transfer fees between Stephen and Pascal."

Is a quote from John Williams but Sorry I can't see him mentioning Salgado anywhere?

:lol:

Look at the time line, look at the way Salgado was signed and the delay, whose wages is Williams talking about? Perhaps the Real Madrid superstar who is on more than £40K.

Nicko is the most reliable source on here, believe what you want but he was sold to cover the wages.

[RibbleValleyRover]

The wage bill had increased and there was a shortfall to fill. Chimbonda and Salgado came in at the same time, they would have added some serious wages to our already stretched wage bill.

[Mattyblue]

So imy, you started this thread and are now going to as many lengths as you can to do down the achivements of Allardyce and find dirt on JW.

Why?

[BangkokRover]

:lol:

Look at the time line, look at the way Salgado was signed and the delay, whose wages is Williams talking about? Perhaps the Real Madrid superstar who is on more than £40K.

Nicko is the most reliable source on here, believe what you want but he was sold to cover the wages.

So why did JW not mention him then but t was happy to happy to mention Chimbonda? The interview was given in September and Salgado was signed on 19th of August?

The wage bill had increased and there was a shortfall to fill. Chimbonda and Salgado came in at the same time, they would have added some serious wages to our already stretched wage bill.

I am not arguing with that at all and that is not what Impy9 said. He said Warnock was sold to pay Saglados wages.

[imy9]

So imy, you started this thread and are now going to as many lengths as you can to do down the achivements of Allardyce and find dirt on JW.

Why?

As I said before it seems that you cannot have a balanced debate on here anymore.

Finding dirt on JW? I used a quote from JW to support a point about Salgado, how is that digging dirt?

Down the achievements of Sam I have made my views about Sam clear, obviously saying anything remotely negative about either individual is almost blasphemous on here

[BangkokRover]

So imy, you started this thread and are now going to as many lengths as you can to do down the achivements of Allardyce and find dirt on JW.

Why?

He obviously likes to stir it instead of having a normal conversation about Rovers.

As I said before it seems that you cannot have a balanced debate on here anymore.

Finding dirt on JW? I used a quote from JW to support a point about Salgado, how is that digging dirt?

Down the achievements of Sam I have made my views about Sam clear, obviously saying anything remotely negative about either individual is almost blasphemous on here

That is i just not true, if you were to say that BFS away record was a joke. I doubt you would find anyone would disagree with you.

[imy9]

So why did JW not mention him then but t was happy to happy to mention Chimbonda? The interview was given in September and Salgado was signed on 19th of August?

I am not arguing with that at all and that is not what Impy9 said. He said Warnock was sold to pay Saglados wages.

I dont know maybe as Chimbonda cost 1.5 million and he was trying to justify where the £7 million plus went? Would you as chairman reveal individual wages to the public?

You dont know me, you have been on here for 4 months and are repeat posting on a number of threads, makes for a balanced debate.

[RibbleValleyRover]

It's a valid question to ask.

Part of analysing a managers success (which what this thread is asking) is looking at how they performed in the transfer market. I think its perfectly reasonable to look at his record, one that I personally think was poor on that front.