[Archived] Sam Allardyce Messiah or simply a good manager?

[booth]

Ah come on Vinjay was obsessive, there are plenty of posters on here I could mention who only talk about one thing, bless where is Jonnolad and his points about Andrews?

Don't worry about it too much, at least you're the "good" twin

There's nothing wrong with positivity as long as you're being unrealistic, or you stop questioning things. Try telling Pompey fans to be positive about what's happened to them

Thanks for the kind words, but I think a break is needed for a few days to take stock, heres hoping for a Rovers win on Saturday to get us closer to safety.

Don't worry about it, just keep telling yourself it's only a message board

[Amo]

Have you considered his transfers in the past, or is this just based on his time at BRFC?

He went through plenty of dross at Bolton.

[Gav]

I am convinced you are both the same person.

I'm starting to think you're right

[chocky]

I think this is more about the manager we have signed than the one we sacked. If Rovers had signed a decent manager this would not be being debated. I could notn stand Allardyce. he is and always will be Mr. Bolton. You can debate whether we would be in a better position than we are now till the cows come home but you can never prove that. We were thumped 7-1 with him in charge.

[Gav]

I think this is more about the manager we have signed than the one we sacked. If Rovers had signed a decent manager this would not be being debated. I could notn stand Allardyce. he is and always will be Mr. Bolton. You can debate whether we would be in a better position than we are now till the cows come home but you can never prove that. We were thumped 7-1 with him in charge.

Amen to that, good post chocky

[Stuart]

Probably better here...

It was always going to happen, Steve Kean directly replaced SA as manager, results since then have made it easy to compare the two in favour of Allardyce. Just out of interest Jisty, who would you have preferred to see as a replacement for Sam, and were you pleased when he was sacked?

I've stated my position several times on this but I think I should start by qualifying it again.

Sam Allardyce is a damn good football manager - and was (probably still is, given the disappointment following the initial hope that Venky's would be more generous with funding than Venkys) perfectly suited to us when we needed to stay in the League following the "P*** I*** project" failure. He was also fantastic at turning our squad into winners (at home) and as such he had my support.

However, that's not to say that I wasn't bored as hell during some matches, sometimes wondering what I was watching and I did have gripes about his approach - particularly when the opposition was "there for the taking" and we didn't take advantage. That said, all of that was quickly forgotten walking up Bolton Road following a victory against a Tottenham or Arsenal - or most teams to be fair, such was Sam's imperious record at Ewood (surely the best since King Kenny?). Fickle, of me I know. It even made the dire away performances easier to stomach becasue we compensated for it at Ewood - where the vast majority of fans watch Rovers. This also means that there was little grumbling from the masses.

All this said, I honestly think that 10th last season flattered us and was probably the worst thing to happen. (Although I imagine the prize money was worth having). It effectively game people the belief that we really weren't that far away from getting back to being a top 6 team again. When the facts where that our team had been decimated for years prior to being sold and things were not at all as rosey as some would make out.

Sam himself projected, in my opinion, an imagine of arrogance and self-absorbed. Which in itself wasn't a problem. I want my manager to be confident and assured and instill that same belief in the team. BUT. At Sam was self-promoting to the exclusion of Rovers. "When I were at Bolton"; "I can attract big players", "I'm too good for this level and should be managing Real Madrid"; or the worst of all "Yes, of course Rovers bought the league". (Okay the last 2 may well have been tongue-in-cheek but he really didn't help his image with those he could have won over.

But then again, given the paltry money we gave him to spend to go and fashion his silk purse, I don't really blame him.

Again, if I'm honest, I was... initially worried - particularly about the timing mid-season, but eventually hopeful, optimistic even, although still nervous... when Sam was ousted. I would not say I was glad. But I had totally envisaged bringing in a proven manager and him being given money to spend in the January window to strengthen our poor squad.

I really did not know who we should bring in. I assumed someone was lined up. (I suppose someone was). But more likely a top foreign coach (in my dreams) e.g. Hitzfelt or Rijkaard or perhaps a proven PL man e.g. Moyes or Jol. There really didn't seem much point in removing Sam to replace him with a Curbishley or Megson or someone of that ilk.

However we quickly became a laughing stock looking at Maradonna and Ronaldinho (allegedly) and the rest is history. Let's just hope it's not another era before we recover.

Pick the bones out of that. I've pretty much typed that straight without checking what I've written so if it is nonsense or contradictory then that's the way it is.

[Mr. E]

He is simply a good manager, but yes compared to Kean and venkys he is the messiah.

[tony gale's mic]

Yeah, my words definitely got twisted.

Someone basically mocked the "pro Sam" posters by implying we all thought Sam was "some kind of Messiah". Now I would never refer to Sam like that myself, but equally that word wouldnt be that ridiculous if applied to Sam either.

The page on wiki on "messiah" opens with:

A messiah (Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ, Modern Mashiaẖ Tiberian Māšîăḥ “anointed”) is a redeemer figure expected or foretold in one form or another by a religion. Slightly more widely, a messiah is any redeemer figure.

Like I said, while I wouldn't outright refer to him as a messiah, considering he redeemed our Premier League status and did help save our club for a while before Venky's have gone and ruined it again, in that respect he might be seen as SOME KIND OF a messiah.

[jim mk2]

t. We were thumped 7-1 with him in charge.

So what ? One-off bad defeat is irrelevant in the context of results over the whole season. Not a reason to sack a very good manager. This debate will rumble on as long as Steve Kean remains manager and is destined to get even more heated if we are relegated.

[tony gale's mic]

So what ? One-off bad defeat is irrelevant in the context of results over the whole season. Not a reason to sack a very good manager.

Exactly. Sometimes I wonder if those people that bring up the 7-1 are actually being serious.

Mourinho lost 5-0 at the Nou Camp.

Mourinho deserves the sack.

[Jimmy612]

Wasn't pre-xmas the time when we went on a run of zero wins in 10 or something? Who's to say that wouldn't have happened this season only later?

It has happened this season cruz

He went through plenty of dross at Bolton.

In a financial sense, what did that 'dross' acumulate to?

[cruz]

It has happened this season cruz

But under Sam I meant. Who knows how he would have coped with Phil Jones being out injured and Hoillet remaining firmly bolted to the bench

[XLM]

He was once the manager of Blackburn Rovers, he isn't anymore.

[tony gale's mic]

But under Sam I meant. Who knows how he would have coped with Phil Jones being out injured and Hoillet remaining firmly bolted to the bench

He's managed in this league for about a decade. The only time he's got a side involved in a relegation fight, even remotely threatened by the drop was in his first season after he got Bolton promoted. Considering when he took over Bolton were mid table in the league below, staying up that season was one hell of an achievement anyway.

All managers go through poor form. But the quality managers hit form at the right time. Look at how many seasons Man U have started the season sluggishly, not remotely in title winning form and everyone has written them off. Similarly, Sam although obviously not in the same class managerwise is arguably just as reliable at what he does.

[yeti-dog]

Exactly. Sometimes I wonder if those people that bring up the 7-1 are actually being serious.

Mourinho lost 5-0 at the Nou Camp.

Mourinho deserves the sack.

TGM.. I think you'll find it was me who called the pitching of Sam as a messiah as risible..there was no mocking that went on just surprise and maybe a touch of cynicism. He saved us yes but was paid bloody well for doing so. With an ego the size of Sam's I'm sure he couldn't care less how we perceive him.

Once again, I'm entitled to my opinion as was discussed last night,and I'm not going to change it because of some tub-thumping from the usual suspects.

[tony gale's mic]

TGM.. I think you'll find it was me who called the pitching of Sam as a messiah as risible..there was no mocking that went on just surprise and maybe a touch of cynicism. He saved us yes but was paid bloody well for doing so. With an ego the size of Sam's I'm sure he couldn't care less how we perceive him.

Once again, I'm entitled to my opinion as was discussed last night,and I'm not going to change it because of some tub-thumping from the usual suspects.

Who gives a crap how much he was paid? How is that even relevant? Every Premier League manager is paid bloody well, though Holloway probably a little less so.

You're entitled to your opinion, just like I'd be entitled to my opinion if I thought Frank Lampard was a better player than Xavi.

[Jimmy612]

TGM.. I think you'll find it was me who called the pitching of Sam as a messiah as risible..there was no mocking that went on just surprise and maybe a touch of cynicism. He saved us yes but was paid bloody well for doing so. With an ego the size of Sam's I'm sure he couldn't care less how we perceive him.

Once again, I'm entitled to my opinion as was discussed last night,and I'm not going to change it because of some tub-thumping from the usual suspects.

Who would have been your preferred manager following the Allardyce sacking Yeti? Just trying to get an idea of who everyone wanted

[tony gale's mic]

Who would have been your preferred manager following the Allardyce sacking Yeti? Just trying to get an idea of who everyone wanted

He'll probably name some top European manager who would obviously have loved to come to a club with mental owners in the middle of Lancashire.

[Jimmy612]

He'll probably name some top European manager who would obviously have loved to come to a club with mental owners in the middle of Lancashire.

Well lets wait and see. It amazes me how many people wanted Jol or MoN, having seen both of them spend huge amounts of money at their respective clubs. Money that I believe Venkys aren't willing to part with.

[yeti-dog]

He'll probably name some top European manager who would obviously have loved to come to a club with mental owners in the middle of Lancashire.

Thanks for answering for me. You have the gift of second sight too,amazing....perhaps you could set up your very own forum where you both ask the questions and give the answers until you disappear up your own back passage.

There's something of the narcissist about you at times..

[rebelmswar]

He was once the manager of Blackburn Rovers, he isn't anymore.

Say it ain't so!!!

[tony gale's mic]

Thanks for answering for me. You have the gift of second sight too,amazing....perhaps you could set up your very own forum where you both ask the questions and give the answers until you disappear up your own back passage.

There's something of the narcissist about you at times..

No, it's more to do with the amount of people who wrote "I only supported the sacking of Sam because I thought we'd get a big name manager in".

How's about you be a good lad and answer the original question?

[rebelmswar]

I'm starting to think you're right

Much like my theory that Jim and Theno also are contained within the same body with a serious split personality going on.

If you remove the ideology, the dynamics of their posts are chillingly similar.

[yeti-dog]

Well lets wait and see. It amazes me how many people wanted Jol or MoN, having seen both of them spend huge amounts of money at their respective clubs. Money that I believe Venkys aren't willing to part with.

To answer you Jimmy, I actually had a fancy for Poyet but was worried he smacked of another Ince. However,seeing the amazing job he's doing with Brighton I wish we'd been brave enought to go for him as I think he's going to prove a cracking manager. He's articulate,plays the game the right way and was also a top player (not that that's particularly relevant I admit).

Clearly not another Ince anyway.

[rebelmswar]

To answer you Jimmy, I actually had a fancy for Poyet but was worried he smacked of another Ince.

Ince a bit rough with you?