[Archived] Sam Allardyce Messiah or simply a good manager?

[Roversi]

Good manager at this level, however he will forever be a victim of football fashion, 25 years ago im sure a guy in Allardyce's position at Bolton would have been snapped up to take one of the big jobs. Not saying Newcastle aren't a big team beacause they are to a certain extent and anyone who disagress with me, just take a look at the amount of Newcastle fans there are around the country.

You know what you get with Allardyce but with us what suprised me the most was his ability to nurture young players, i cant remember any young players other than Nolan that he brought through at Bolton, but to see the likes of Jones, Hanley, Morris and Holiett appear during his reign was a nice sight aswell as improving Olsson's game. I honestly thought Olsson career with us was over after the spurs game. You never saw Hughes bring through any players, he may argue there weren't any decent ones but guys like Joe Garner, Eddie Nolan and Kieth Treacy are all plying thier trade in the championship, were here under Hughes Tenure.

I dont think Sam is a messiah, but he is a good good manager at this level.

On a side note, i was impressed by the thought we have only really had four main keepers in the last 20 years Mimms (1990 - 1993), Flowers (1993-1999), Friedel (2000-2008) and Robinson (2008-present). look at the amount of number ones man u have had since big pete. Bosnich, Taibi, Barthez, Howard, Van Der Sar, Foster. Arsenal since Seaman, Lehmann, Almunia, Fabianski and Schezeny.

[den]

You can debate whether we would be in a better position than we are now till the cows come home but you can never prove that.

Clutching at straws, while still trying to suggest we're no worse off without Allardyce, Chocky?

[Amo]

In a financial sense, what did that 'dross' acumulate to?

A fat load of wasted wages & agent fees?

Sam did sign diamonds for Bolton but he went through a lot of #### to find them.

[chocky]

Clutching at straws, while still trying to suggest we're no worse off without Allardyce, Chocky?

The Allardyce fans are the one's clutching at straws. I stand by my statement that if Rovers had signed a decent manager we would not be debating Allardyce the great one..and noone can prove that we would be in a better position with Allardyce still in charge..That is an assumption..

[den]

The Allardyce fans are the one's clutching at straws. I stand by my statement that if Rovers had signed a decent manager we would not be debating Allardyce the great one..

Obviously. However, we had one and the chances were that we wouldn't get a better one. and we didn't.

[tony gale's mic]

The Allardyce fans are the one's clutching at straws. I stand by my statement that if Rovers had signed a decent manager we would not be debating Allardyce the great one..

We had a better than decent manager. Even if we signed Mourinho and he led us to multiple titles and Champions' League success, there'd be plenty of people, those who actually know a bit about football, who'd still appreciate what a good job Sam did for us. Granted, it wouldn't be such a hot topic, but it wouldn't make it any less wrong.

noone can prove that we would be in a better position with Allardyce still in charge..That is an assumption..

Okay Einstein, I'll tell you what. If Man United sacked Ferguson at the end of this season and replaced him with a nobody, then Man United finished outside the top 4 next season, do you think people would be wrong to say that Ferguson would have done much better?

Because that's a very similar analogy to what we're dealing with here.

[chocky]

We had a better than decent manager. Even if we signed Mourinho and he led us to multiple titles and Champions' League success, there'd be plenty of people, those who actually know a bit about football, who'd still appreciate what a good job Sam did for us. Granted, it wouldn't be such a hot topic, but it wouldn't make it any less wrong.

Okay Einstein, I'll tell you what. If Man United sacked Ferguson at the end of this season and replaced him with a nobody, then Man United finished outside the top 4 next season, do you think people would be wrong to say that Ferguson would have done much better?

Because that's a very similar analogy to what we're dealing with here.

I see that soon as anyone disagrees with the Allardyce brigade the insults start. It's my opinion and it's what a football forum if for..debate..Although calling me Einstein is patronising. One question..did you enjoy watching the matches un der Allardyce. I went to plenty as you did and thought many were appalling.

[Mattyblue]

Don't do it to yourself tony, it is only a small minority that STILL can't swallow their pride.

[Amo]

I see that soon as anyone disagrees with the Allardyce brigade the insults start. It's my opinion and it's what a football forum if for..debate..Although calling me Einstein is patronising. One question..did you enjoy watching the matches un der Allardyce. I went to plenty as you did and thought many were appalling.

Most of the Kean vs. Sam "debate" is for the benefit of the circle-jerkers.

[ABBEY]

I see that soon as anyone disagrees with the Allardyce brigade the insults start. It's my opinion and it's what a football forum if for..debate..Although calling me Einstein is patronising. One question..did you enjoy watching the matches un der Allardyce. I went to plenty as you did and thought many were appalling.

welcome to our world lol...dr narcissm knows best ...dr 6 games.

[yeti-dog]

welcome to our world lol...dr narcissm knows best ...dr 6 games.

Can't believe he has too many patients if the smug,patronising way he presents on here is in any way indicative of his bed-side manner...

By the way TGM..you asked me to answer Jimmy which I did.

I'm still waiting for you to diss my suggestion that Poyet wouldn't have been a bad shout to replace Sam..

[tony gale's mic]

I see that soon as anyone disagrees with the Allardyce brigade the insults start. It's my opinion and it's what a football forum if for..debate..Although calling me Einstein is patronising. One question..did you enjoy watching the matches un der Allardyce. I went to plenty as you did and thought many were appalling.

I could have called you Einstein sarcastically, I could have been genuine.

You didn't answer my question. You say "noone knows that we would have been better under Sam", but surely you realise that's a stupid thing to say, given Sam's ten year track record in this league? Much like Ferguson has a track record of always challenging for the title, Sam has a record of pretty much always getting his teams to mid table safety and often even better.

He finished 20 points off the drop zone last season, so people can be fairly safe in their prediction that he would have done the business again this season, given his excellent track record of getting results.

And while the football wasn't the most aesthetically pleasing, I almost always went home happy after my trips to Ewood under Allardyce. I always enjoy the games when Rovers win more than games when Rovers don't win (unless it's a heroic draw against the likes of Man U or Chelsea maybe). Most fans do aswell.

welcome to our world lol...dr narcissm knows best ...dr 6 games.

"Dr 6 games?" You do realise for 4 months between August and December 2010, out of 16 weekends, 10 were spent working in A&E, one was in New York and one was in Amsterdam? I'm not sure how I was meant to get to that many Rovers games during that time Abbey, we can't all be lucky enough to be rooted to the great metropolis that is Blackburn. Rota's not so bad now so I can get to a few more matches mind.

By the way, if you're going to use long words like narcissism, at least learn how to spell them.

Can't believe he has too many patients if the smug,patronising way he presents on here is in any way indicative of his bed-side manner...

By the way TGM..you asked me to answer Jimmy which I did.

I'm still waiting for you to diss my suggestion that Poyet wouldn't have been a bad shout to replace Sam..

Poyet wouldn't have been a bad shout.

But you don't sack Sam in order to bring Gus Poyet in.

[thenodrog]

Unfortunately Sam tried to play the same at all his clubs.

So does Jose Mourhino. So too would Wenger and Ferguson and most other successful managers I imagine.

So whats your point Maj?

[chocky]

I could have called you Einstein sarcastically, I could have been genuine.

You didn't answer my question. You say "noone knows that we would have been better under Sam", but surely you realise that's a stupid thing to say, given Sam's ten year track record in this league? Much like Ferguson has a track record of always challenging for the title, Sam has a record of pretty much always getting his teams to mid table safety and often even better.

He finished 20 points off the drop zone last season, so people can be fairly safe in their prediction that he would have done the business again this season, given his excellent track record of getting results.

And while the football wasn't the most aesthetically pleasing, I almost always went home happy after my trips to Ewood under Allardyce. I always enjoy the games when Rovers win more than games when Rovers don't win (unless it's a heroic draw against the likes of Man U or Chelsea maybe). Most fans do aswell.

We don't know the reason the squad is not playing to their true potential. Our problem is we haven't got even one striker that can score goals. That is essential if you want to progress. If we did have a decent player then he got sold. Sam signed most of the strikers on our books and none of then have got into double figuers since Santa Cruz's first season and he went off the boil in the second season. Why Manchester City valued him at such a high price I'll never understand. But maybe that was Sparky's mistake. I never said Kean was the solution and I was as shocked as everyone else that he was given the job . My assertation that this debate is not so much about Allardyce getting the sack but about Kean getting the job has validity. If we'd signed a world class manager and we were still struggling as we are now then this debate may have taken a different course.

[thenodrog]

By the way I'm enjoying going to games again, loved Wigan away, and I'm looking forward to Everton at the weekend,

No you're not.

DONT care who or why its started ,im embarassed by the way every thread goes back to him whose name im sick of reading about....TIME TO DRAW A LINE UNDER HIM AND MOVE THE FECK ON!!!

Can't do... we haven't got to the end of the chapter yet.

[tony gale's mic]

We don't know the reason the squad is not playing to their true potential. Our problem is we havn't got even one striker that can score goals. That is essential if you want to progress. If we did have a decent player then he got sold. Sam signed most of the strikers on our books and none of then have got into double figuers sisce Santa Cruz's first season and he went off the boil in the second season. Why Manchester City valued him at such a high price I'll never understand. But maybe that was Sparky's mistake. I never said Kean was the solution and I was as shocked as everyone else that he was given the job. My assertation that this debate is not about Allardyce getting the sack but about Kean getting the job. If we'd signed a world class manager and we were still struggling as we are now then this debate may have taken a different course.

There's so many problems with this post. Where to start...

We didn't have a striker who could score goals last season. This season we've actually got a striker who's averaged out a goal every 175 minutes but who's been frozen out.

We finished 10th last season. So that's that theory out of the window.

Sam signed most of the strikers on our books? He signed two - Kalinic and Benjani. Both of them have by far the best minutes to goals ratio on our books. If it wasn't for Benjani and Kalinic we'd have one win under Steve Kean rather than three and be certainties for the drop. Kalinic has scored 4 in his last 6, and this season is actually putting the ball in the net yet this manager has dropped him completely for some reason. Neither of them are great players but that's not the point.

"If we'd signed a world class manager" :lol: :lol: Are you even reading these posts to yourself before you press send? Do you wonder why I called you Einstein sarcastically?

"Yeah, I know we sacked a good manager in Sam, but if we'd managed to persuade Mourinho to leave Madrid and come to Rovers, maybe things would have ended up better" is basically what you're saying. The whole point is that there's very few, if any better proven managers than Sam who would have been interested. So yes, this is at least as much about the Sam sacking as it is about the Kean dismissal.

[Majiball]

So does Jose Mourhino. So too would Wenger and Ferguson and most other successful managers I imagine.

So whats your point Maj?

He choose the wrong style.

[ABBEY]

.

"Dr 6 games?" You do realise for 4 months between August and December 2010, out of 16 weekends, 10 were spent working in A&E, one was in New York and one was in Amsterdam? I'm not sure how I was meant to get to that many Rovers games during that time Abbey, we can't all be lucky enough to be rooted to the great metropolis that is Blackburn. Rota's not so bad now so I can get to a few more matches mind.

By the way, if you're going to use long words like narcissism, at least learn how to spell them.

ooops my bad ,bet you have never spelt a word wrong in your life have you. Dr 6 games lol was only saying(whats factually wrong with what i put?)

No you're not.

Can't do... we haven't got to the end of the chapter yet.

was the end of the chapter when he was potted for him. LET IT GO NOWT ANY OF YOU CAN DO.....

[thenodrog]

Two players who are doing well now but how well will they do next year or the year after? They could have come in on huge wages and probably on a 3-4 years contract- we could be stuck with players who start to break down or their leg's start to go. There is also the issue about the pace, speed and power in this league, far quicker than on the continent.

It's a model not viable for a club like ours, we already have high wages and we don't have big money. The model for us is clearly the buy the younger out of favour players on the cheap develop them or getting them performing above their ability and then sell them for a profit, but instead of the club pocketing all the money (like we saw under Hughes) reinvest.

I'm glad Sam didn't get his way on those transfers. I think we dodged a bullet, two bullets in fact.

I agree. That Raul and Guti could easily have been as crap for us as Tugay, Freidel and Salgado turned out to be couldn't they RVR? Come to think about it Tony Gale, Berg, Sid Cowans, Short and Ooijer brought absolutely nothing to the party either did they?

[thenodrog]

Those players were not bought by Allardyce and you know it, try Goulon and Nzonzi etc, then we’ll have a debate.

Just as an aside and I think even you will admit that Allardyce played a blinder over RSC with Hughes and Cooke. We ended up with 17m which if you rem started with a bid of 6-7m which was supported and embellished by more than a few members of the gutter press too. Dunno about you but the best I'd hoped for privately was 14m. How do you think Kean with Anderson pulling his strings would have stood up to those two with the Arabs behind them?

Credit where credit is due.

[Amo]

Just as an aside and I think even you will admit that Allardyce played a blinder over RSC with Hughes and Cooke. We ended up with 17m which if you rem started with a bid of 6-7m which was supported and embellished by more than a few members of the gutter press too. Dunno about you but the best I'd hoped for privately was 14m. How do you think Kean with Anderson pulling his strings would have stood up to those two with the Arabs behind them?

Credit where credit is due.

Yeah, not like City have paid through the nose for most of their first-team...

[XLM]

Why are people still so infatuated with this guy? He has nothing to do with whether you're happy with Kean.

He's gone, get over him. If we stay up then we've lost nothing by him going.

Lets all pine for perpetual nothingness. Sad.

[tony gale's mic]

Why are people still so infatuated with this guy? He has nothing to do with whether you're happy with Kean.

He's gone, get over him. If we stay up then we've lost nothing by him going.

Lets all pine for perpetual nothingness. Sad.

If we stay up by one point/goal difference, we'll have lost nothing from the manager who had us stay up by twenty points last season?

As long as people like you keep saying stupid things like this, other people will point it out to you.

[XLM]

If we stay up by one point/goal difference, we'll have lost nothing from the manager who had us stay up by twenty points last season?

And what exactly will we have lost? Apart from the unbearable boredom that we suffered week in week out.

[tony gale's mic]

And what exactly will we have lost? Apart from the unbearable boredom that we suffered week in week out.

That's funny, here I was thinking that the thing that made football fans most happy was seeing their team win, and we just lost the manager who provided Rovers fans with the second best home record since promotion.

Or the man that had us 10th last season and, had he been allowed to continue his job and carried on the same form (pretty much the form he'd had for the last two years), wouldve had us 9th right now.

But no, you're right, if Kean keeps us up and we finish 17th, we would have lost nothing.

You're on the list. Congratulations.