[Archived] Rovers versus Manchester City, 25th April 8pm

[dazmaz]

I still dont get why people think Kalinic doesnt bring anything to the game. He makes the ball stick to his feet and with a little more match sharpness could have created a few chances. Kali needs support and with Hoilett and Olsson on the wings he has just that

[cruz]

Last night Showed again how daft it was to let diouf go with only emerton as an alternative.

Emerton is brilliant. Didn't you see his two goals in the 5-1 defeat of Wolves?...........

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albeit nearly EIGHT years ago on August 16 2003

[SamTheShrew]

Has anyone bid for Emerton or even been linked with him whilst he has been here?

pretty much says it all.

[CAPT KAYOS]

I agree fully pal, but with the players giving 110% we have hope, don't we?

It's the only thing we do have GAV (and that we at least match the teams below results )

Wasn't there lat night but it sounds like the effort that has been questioned over the last month has begun to shown signs - but yet again we have a big fat '0' as goals scored.

I mentioned that this is the biggy and something we must concentrate on before - we have to take a lead and see where it takes us.

The positive from last night was that regardless of who the 2up front we showed a little bit more than we have been doing previously by going with this formation and at least still have games (hope) to do something about it.

Forget performance otherwise you end up like last night - as I said in the prematch posts - goals breathe confidence and this is exactly what we need.

The problem we have now and my worry, is whether we will see the game on Saturday as one of those where the performance is there and the chances come along but we just don't have the composure or sheer determination to break that onion sack; come up against a keeper who just has one of those days and plays out of his skin (akin to the Crewe game for those that can remember) as that what tends to happen when you are down at the bottom end and panic tends to kick in.

[Ozz]

I thought Emerton had a good game for once last night.

The difference in the end was two fold-Silva played all over the park and was easily their best player, and Dzeko has the basic ability fostered on park football, one which we really miss- the ability to stick the ball in the net. Silva runs across the middle, Rochina not picking ,a lucky rebound off the defender and bang Dzeko wins it for City.

For all the talk of City not being a big club over the relatively small following they brought last night-They were as loud as anyone this season IMO.

And as for Mario Ballotelli-What a complete waste of time he was. Can't take a tackle, sulked around the pitch till he got took off, and took a big swipe at Olsson I think and got away with it. City were really playing with 10 men when he was on the pitch. (which may explain how we stayed in it for so long).

Rovers could have got a vital point last night, but a baffling substitution and complete lack of a goal threat thereafter means we face the noose on Saturday, when a defeat should be the end for us in this league.

[den]

Tend to agree.

Just shows what a superb job Sam did in optimising the limited ability within the squad.

We have to go back to 4-5-1 as we are just don't have the quality in the midfield and we have to get bodies in the box with movement and make things happen when we have the ball

4-4-2 against Man City's midfield was never going to work. We didn't get a touch for 20 minutes, until Benjani or Roberts started dropping off to make the fifth midfielder.

Mid week Kean had been reflecting on the Liverpool game, and stating that we need to go back to that kind of performance. I reckon that's why we went 4-4-2 last night. Surely a good manager looks at the oppositions strengths, in this case Man City's midfield, realises the first thing a team has to do is stop them from playing and pick a side to do that - not ignore the opposition in front of you and pick a side based on a game 2 or 3 months ago.

[John]

Just shows what a superb job Sam did in optimising the limited ability within the squad.

Not according to some who believe a more attacking brand of football should have been adopted.

Wonder how many Premier League clubs would like to buy our strikers and midfielders - once in a while (or blue moon) you get a goal from Roberts or a set piece from MGP however the attacking ability/quality in our squad is really poor.

It is there for all to see now especially as Kean is trying to make us play a more expansive game.

[RevidgeBlue]

4-4-2 against Man City's midfield was never going to work. We didn't get a touch for 20 minutes, until Benjani or Roberts started dropping off to make the fifth midfielder.

Mid week Kean had been reflecting on the Liverpool game, and stating that we need to go back to that kind of performance. I reckon that's why we went 4-4-2 last night. Surely a good manager looks at the oppositions strengths, in this case Man City's midfield, realises the first thing a team has to do is stop them from playing and pick a side to do that - not ignore the opposition in front of you and pick a side based on a game 2 or 3 months ago.

Can't agree with that at all den, I thought we played far better last night utilising two strikers up front than we have in recent weeks labouring away with one up front. Wouldn't you agree?

We lost last night because of an unforced error which led directly to their goal. Nothing to do with formations. Other than that one error which cost us I thought it was a very spirited performance against an extremely good side.

[Blue blood]

My take on the game: spirited performance but never really threatened to win the game.

After a poor opening 15-20 minutes we battled our way back into the game, and defended pretty solidly after that. Thing was going forward was painful to watch. At no point were we really that threatening, and for all their endevour Roberts and Benjani looked absolutely toothless. Too strikers far too similar in my book to play together.

Whatever we tried going forward looked unconvincing. Playing it to feet - poor control from the forwards. In the air - still bar Samba didn't look a threat. Under Sam when the ball was pumped forward you felt there was a decent chance of a break/that it would fall to a rovers player. The current regime looked like they were aimless lofts forward. Roberts header late on, unmarked, showed just how poor he is in the air, as well as to feet, and makes me wonder how he gets in the team above any of the other forwards at the club. I struggle to see what he brings these days.

Positive - we could well grind out a few more draws with spirited defending. Negative, I cannot see where we're going to score enough goals to get a win from. We look and have looked for some time utterly toothless without Junior. If a team gets a goal against us - merited or unmerited - it is pretty much game over for us atm. Worrying given that we need points.

Kean as others have said has a huge dilemma. Does he focus on the positives (pardon the pun) tightening up even further what was a fairly solid defensive display. Another midfielder in the mix at the expense of a striker, and on that performance we'll be difficult to break down. Or does he try doing something to give us more attacking prowess as we still even with 2 up top look woefully short of goals. And if he goes for this option, what else can he do?

Regardless of the finish this season, the management needs to have a long hard look at how to get Rovers more dangerous on the offensive.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Rovers could have got a vital point last night, but a baffling substitution and complete lack of a goal threat thereafter means we face the noose on Saturday, when a defeat should be the end for us in this league.

When we still have two of the bottom three to play - why would it be the end of the season ? I would admit this weekend is a key match - and by no means an easy match - and our remaining matches are difficult (to say the least). At this moment in time - I hope that the United match isn't the nail in our coffin again. At the moment I would be happy to go to Wolves needing a result to stay up - though would obviously be far happier if a miracle happened and we were safe by then - but at the moment I am more worried that we will be relegated by then.

[K-Hod]

4-5-1 all the way, 1 striker from the 4. Get Hoilett back asap, risk him if needs be as frankly, his importance to the team has been clear as day in the last two games.

N'Zonzi back for the next game? If so, get him, Dunn and J. Jones in the middle- (granted Dunn will have to be subbed on circa 60 mins)......

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Another midfielder in the mix at the expense of a striker, and on that performance we'll be difficult to break down. Or does he try doing something to give us more attacking prowess as we still even with 2 up top look woefully short of goals. And if he goes for this option, what else can he do?

Regardless of the finish this season, the management needs to have a long hard look at how to get Rovers more dangerous on the offensive.

I think in Rochina he has the answer to your question - as he looks the ideal second striker floating between midfield and attack. Big question - who would you have as the one out and out striker ?

[tony gale's mic]

Can't agree with that at all den, I thought we played far better last night utilising two strikers up front than we have in recent weeks labouring away with one up front. Wouldn't you agree?

We lost last night because of an unforced error which led directly to their goal. Nothing to do with formations. Other than that one error which cost us I thought it was a very spirited performance against an extremely good side.

That unforced error was because Kean brought an inexperienced striker on for a midfielder.

[super_arran]

a post from someone on the offical message board. thought they summed it up perfectly

I think it's harsh to say Kean got the tactics wrong when a side that should have buried us on paper needed a debatable goal and the ref to not give a clear penalty to beat us. I thought we played well, and hope we show the same spirit in the games to come. With the subs, it looked like Dunn had signalled to the bench that he needed to come off a few moments before. Should we have brought on Pedersen instead? No one seems to have been particularly impressed when he has played recently, and Rochina looks lively and like he can make things happen. It was worth a try, and the young lad did make an effort to get stuck in. And there's been plenty of calls for Kalinic to be put back in the team, some fans were chanting his name earlier in the match and his introduction seemed to be a popular decision at the time. The player himself has been demanding another chance, but then did naff all to show that it's been a mistake to leave him out. It's a no win situation for Kean.

[Gav]

4-4-2 against Man City's midfield was never going to work. We didn't get a touch for 20 minutes, until Benjani or Roberts started dropping off to make the fifth midfielder.

Mid week Kean had been reflecting on the Liverpool game, and stating that we need to go back to that kind of performance. I reckon that's why we went 4-4-2 last night. Surely a good manager looks at the oppositions strengths, in this case Man City's midfield, realises the first thing a team has to do is stop them from playing and pick a side to do that - not ignore the opposition in front of you and pick a side based on a game 2 or 3 months ago.

I think once we managed to get hold of Silva, who played in a roaming role and was outstanding for 20 minutes, we did ok, and 4-4-2 gave us a chance of winning the game, unlike the loan striker, which wouldn't have worked last night against Citys 2 central defenders.

If we’d have won, 4-4-2 would have been hailed, we didn’t so the tactics must have been wrong

a post from someone on the offical message board. thought they summed it up perfectly

I think it's harsh to say Kean got the tactics wrong when a side that should have buried us on paper needed a debatable goal and the ref to not give a clear penalty to beat us. I thought we played well, and hope we show the same spirit in the games to come. With the subs, it looked like Dunn had signalled to the bench that he needed to come off a few moments before. Should we have brought on Pedersen instead? No one seems to have been particularly impressed when he has played recently, and Rochina looks lively and like he can make things happen. It was worth a try, and the young lad did make an effort to get stuck in. And there's been plenty of calls for Kalinic to be put back in the team, some fans were chanting his name earlier in the match and his introduction seemed to be a popular decision at the time. The player himself has been demanding another chance, but then did naff all to show that it's been a mistake to leave him out. It's a no win situation for Kean.

Think I may join that forum

[modes98]

Wonder how many Premier League clubs would like to buy our strikers and midfielders

Kalinic, Hoilett, Olsson and maybe Nzonzi. The rest are rubbish or too old now.

[RevidgeBlue]

That unforced error was because Kean brought an inexperienced striker on for a midfielder.

If Kean brings on a player who makes an unforced error, he can't be blamed for that. Conversely if said player's overall contribution is s***e then obviously the finger can be pointed at the manager in that respect as it's the wrong selection.

Rochina has been at fault defensively for two goals in each of his starts, but that may be just one of those things that happens and a similar thing might not happen to him again for a couple of seasons. I saw enough from him last night to suggest his inclusion for the rest of the season might outweigh any potential negatives.

[grizfoot]

We wasn't playing 4-4-2 it was clearly 4-1-2-1-2, there is a big difference! It actually worked to an extent I thought, Man City prefer playing everything down the middle (a bit like Arsenal) and often refuse to put crosses in the box. The only width they really had came through Johnson, and we did will containing him after the first 15 minutes or so.

Don't think it been mentioned but I've wacthed back the Sky coverage this morning and thought it quite pro-Rovers attitude to their show, makes a change I know. Usually you'd expect them to be talking about Man City all the time but with Coleman (Kean's pal) and Big Brad (a true Rovers) in the studio they spent the majority of the time discussing our blight rather than Man City.

[Blue blood]

I think in Rochina he has the answer to your question - as he looks the ideal second striker floating between midfield and attack. Big question - who would you have as the one out and out striker ?

That is another problem - not sure any are particularly adept at it. Reluctantly I may have to say Benjani as he's the best at holding up the ball, although that's not really saying much. Maybe Kalanic as he's best at seizing opposition mistakes (again not saying much.)

I do wonder whether Rochina is too lightweight for a second striker role, and whether it'd be just as effective going 4-4-2. Would be more tempted by Dunn there, who can handle himself a bit more and is stronger, although his lack of fitness is highly worrying.

Truth be told selecting an effective rovers line up at the moment would be problematic for the likes of Mourinho, Ferguson, Hiddink let alone a novice.

[47er]

Can't agree with that at all den, I thought we played far better last night utilising two strikers up front than we have in recent weeks labouring away with one up front. Wouldn't you agree?

We lost last night because of an unforced error which led directly to their goal. Nothing to do with formations. Other than that one error which cost us I thought it was a very spirited performance against an extremely good side.

A team like City is always likely to score against any side with 4 in mid-field but sadly we are not anymore likely to score with 2 upfront than one. Such is the standard of our strikers.

[blue_and_white]

Benjani and Roberts were doinbg as well as could be expected. What I questioned in another thread was Paffell banging on about people not protesting and asked him how he felt about the same supporters singing for Kalinic. His arguement is that by singing against Venky's / Kean we undermine the players, I was asking how that works for Roberts and Benjani when the fans sing for Kalinic. I thought they were doing as well as could be expected but my point wasn't about their performance it was about the songs fans sing.

As it happens I'd have left Kalinic on the bench, he brings nothing to the game.

Totally agree with the point about singing for Kalinic when the 2 strikers on the pitch are playing pretty well. What is the point in that? In fact what is ever the point in singing for substitutes? Managers don't listen to fans giving them substitution/tactical advice, if the fans ever chant something and then its done then its merely coincidence. What it will do is knock the players confidence who are chanting to be replaced. Not to mention the highly dubvious track record Rovers (and indeed all) fans have in getting these things right. Kalinic did nothing when he came on, just like McCarthy never used to do anything when he was chanted to come on, just like Pedersen usually does something when he's on but is always shouted at to get off.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Last night again showed Rovers' weaknesses to the full. Forwards who don't take the few chances, players who cannot keep possession etc. They've all been discussed. The main problem imo is that we are still trying to fit David Dunn into the team. His mobility is so poor after one run means he cannot move around the field meaning any team who move the ball can out pass Rovers with ease.

Dunn has to be dropped.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

So many are advocating we play one upfront,at home,against Bolton when we need to score goals....

We appear to be damned if we do,damned if we dont.We are a busted flush.

Its painfull to watch Dunny these days, he's finished at this level and judging by his facial expression when subbed last night I think he knows that too.

[RevidgeBlue]

So many are advocating we play one upfront,at home,against Bolton when we need to score goals....

I find that unbelievable SG.

We need goals. We simply won't score on Saturday with one up front unless Hoillet is fit and chips in imo.

[den]

Can't agree with that at all den, I thought we played far better last night utilising two strikers up front than we have in recent weeks labouring away with one up front. Wouldn't you agree?

I don't think you understand Simon. We started with Roberts and Benjani playing high upfield, as out and out strikers and our 4 mids got run silly by City 5 man mid. So when we actually played 4-4-2, we were at our worst in the game. After c20 mins, either one of Benjani or Roberts started to drop behind, giving us more numbers in midfield. Even when we matched city numbers wise they still had more quality there, - so starting the game by allowing them to outnumber and outclass us there was a bad move.

As for the argument that one up front means we wont score goals, that's a matter of not understanding as well - IMO. Because you have only one out and out striker in your starting line up, that doesn't mean you can't get players forward when you have posession.

First thing a manager must do, is stop the opposition from dominating midfield. Once you've done that, the you can look to getting support to the front man. If we allow Bolton to run the midfield, they'll more than likely beat us.