[Archived] Rovers versus Manchester City, 25th April 8pm

[dopper69]

Dunn is clearly an attacking midfielder, as he has been for all of his career. If he plays in the centre it will be further forward than that of the supporting central midfielder.

Edit - from the rovers website 'An attacking midfielder with an eye for goal'

[tony gale's mic]

Then don't - and do us both a favour.

Even the last manager knew that Dunn's days as a CM were over, which is why the 4-5-1 formation was largely to accomodate Dunn's effectiveness NOT as a centre-midfielder but as an attacking midfielder/second-striker. It's been vocalized on these forums time and time again how Dunn is found out in CM because he hasn't the legs to play there anymore on a regular basis. That's why he played behind the striker, so the runners could do the leg-work for him.

And the official site lists Hoilett as a striker, but he plays out-wide. So what's your point?

Hoilett was initially a striker, I certainly remember all the early reports about him being a striker/forward - it's only through training and game time that he's turned into a winger.

http://www.skysports.com//story/0,,11676_5389407,00+en-USS_01DBC.html from 2009 describes him as a forward, http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/blackburnrovers/news/4452942.Big_Sam_gets___13m_transfer_kitty/ from a similar time describes him as a "striker", whereas http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_6889801,00.html from recently describes him as a winger as will most other recent reports.

Stick "Ruben Rocinha striker" and "Ruben Rocinha midfielder" into google and see what gets you more relevant results. When I put the striker search in, I get a raft of articles about Rovers' January signing. When I put the second in, I get absolutely no relevant results. In fact, the idea of him being a midfielder is so ridiculous that I get Google asking me if I meant something else!

And yet you still try and argue that Rocinha is a midfielder :lol: Jesus.

Dunn's days for 90 effective minutes at CM are, if not completely over, certainly diminished, but he did a solid job for 60 minutes. If Dunn's days at CM are over, why did Kean pick him in the first place?! And wouldn't that mean there'd be no place for him in a 4-4-2 set up?

As it stands I completely back picking Dunn in the first place, but not replacing him with someone who is UNIVERSALLY described as a striker.

Dunn is clearly an attacking midfielder, as he has been for all of his career. If he plays in the centre it will be further forward than that of the supporting central midfielder.

Edit - from the rovers website 'An attacking midfielder with an eye for goal'

Dunn is an attacking midfielder who can and has played centre midfield countless times for Rovers when we play 4-4-2.

Rocinha is a striker who has never been seriously described as a midfielder anywhere outside of this thread.

[dopper69]

Dunn is an attacking midfielder who can and has played centre midfield countless times for Rovers when we play 4-4-2.

Rocinha is a striker who has never been seriously described as a midfielder anywhere outside of this thread.

Agreed, although I would say that the furthest forward that Dunn is effective is the furthest point back that Rochina would be effective i.e they cross paths at the limit their preferred positions (that made more sense in my head before typing)

Honest question, were we not playing 4-1-2-1-2 last night (didn't get to see the match)

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Bloody hell, why will some people not admit that he screwed up? If it was his first botch up I could understand it, but look at the league table! Look at the stats since he took over.

Sinking in yet?

Because some people don't believe he botched up in this match. Rochina for Dunn - not the sub I would have made - but I could understand the logic as Dunn was playing in the advanced midfield role - which Rochina has shown he can play - and with more pace than Dunn. Taking Benjani off rather than Roberts - could be down to Benjani not having played much injury free football. Kean has made lots of mistakes in his tenure at Rovers - the biggest was to try to change things too quickly. But in my opinion I don't think Kean did badly last night.

What everybody seems to forget - City are going for top 3 - we are fighting relegation and yet we gave them a good game and most recognise the least we deserved was a point.

[tony gale's mic]

Because some people don't believe he botched up in this match. Rochina for Dunn - not the sub I would have made - but I could understand the logic as Dunn was playing in the advanced midfield role - which Rochina has shown he can play - and with more pace than Dunn. Taking Benjani off rather than Roberts - could be down to Benjani not having played much injury free football. Kean has made lots of mistakes in his tenure at Rovers - the biggest was to try to change things too quickly. But in my opinion I don't think Kean did badly last night.

What everybody seems to forget - City are going for top 3 - we are fighting relegation and yet we gave them a good game and most recognise the least we deserved was a point.

Dunn wasn't playing in his advanced midfield role. How many times did you see Dunn get forward last night? If Dunn really was playing in his advanced midfield role we wouldve had Jones vs Barry and De Jong and our midfield would have got steamrollered - the fact it didn't is further proof that our midfield was flat 4 across last night - which was one thing that Kean did right.

However, with 20 minutes to go, as a much weaker team against a team looking to break you down, you look to shore up the midfield and protect your back four. Kean did the opposite of this.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

However, with 20 minutes to go, as a much weaker team against a team looking to break you down, you look to shore up the midfield and protect your back four. Kean did the opposite of this.

Sorry - so you are saying that City were in the ascendancy for the second half ? When Rochina was introduced it looked to me as we were the team trying to break City down. Your impression of the second half is obviously totally at odds with most people (including City fans) who watched the match.

In the 20 minutes that Rochina was on the pitch how many shots did City have on target - considering you are implying our midfield would be over-run without Dunny ?

[tashor]

The only way Dunn can continue to play at this level is if he takes the Tugay role and drops back to orchestrate play..

He doesn't have the legs to play as a second attacker behind a lone front man never mind support a front two in a four man mid-field.

For me our best team would be

Robinson

Salgado Samba Nelsen Givet

Dunn

Hoilett Jones Jones Olsson

Not sure - Drogba/Carroll/Old Santa Cruz clone

Outside this kind of set up his days for us are numbered even in the Championship.

[tony gale's mic]

Sorry - so you are saying that City were in the ascendancy for the second half ? When Rochina was introduced it looked to me as we were the team trying to break City down. Your impression of the second half is obviously totally at odds with most people (including City fans) who watched the match.

In the 20 minutes that Rochina was on the pitch how many shots did City have on target - considering you are implying our midfield would be over-run without Dunny ?

Where did you get me saying that City were in the ascendancy for the second half? And what we were doing in the game was one thing, but with teams of the quality of City, they only need one attack, one opening and they can score. Whereas teams with the quality of Rovers can attack all day and not score a single goal. As has been evidenced numerous times this season.

In the 27 minutes that Rocinha was on the pitch, City had two shots on target. The second one, twelve minutes into Rocinha's stay on the pitch, was the opening goal for City which directly resulted from Rocinha's naivety in the midfield position. After that City sat back and sought to protect their lead.

During the whole game we didn't manage one shot on target from open play. Which proves my point perfectly. You need to make sure your midfield is solid against a strong team like City, you need genuine midfielders in there because they don't need many chances generally to score goals.

If you want to bring a player like Rocinha on to make things happen - you bring them on IN POSITION.

[sambo]

Dunn wasn't in the hole behind the striker last night I don't think, he just seemed to be in a usual 4-4-2 CM position.

Putting Rochina on was a risk, which I thought probably hindered us.

[blue_and_white]

Looks like many of the Darwen enders didnt show last night which is a shame. Only goes to highlight their semi commitment to the team.

Just hope they are in full voice on saturday which could well be for many of them their last game of the season.

Semi-commitment, ha thats a good one considering the non-stop singing from the Darwen End all season even when we've been behind. What have the Blackburn End been doing the last few tricky months apart from booing substitutions and abusing Keith Andrews? For Liverpool, City and Utd the club have designated us non-season ticket holders (something that will hopefully be changed next season with a 19-game one that includes 3 moves). So matchday fans will behave like matchday fans, and turn up if they want to. I've voluntarily missed about 4 Rovers games in my entire life but last night was one of them.

Venkys are clueless, dangerous and on their way to destroying this club. Jerome Anderson is a self-promoting, meddling snake determined to use Rovers as increase his own influence in the game. Kean is a clueless yes man who got the job on his ability to agree with people. The replacement of the Trust, Williams and Allardyce with these total idiots enrages me and has severly damaged the intrinsic loyalty I had to the club. So I decided to protest with my wallet last night as many of the serial hoofball moaners always threatened to do when Sam was in charge. They've got their way now, "better" football, worse results, and declining attendances, which they were too stupid to realise would happen not before Allardyce was sacked, but after.

[sambo]

It wasn't like the majority of Darwen Enders decided not to turn up, perhaps a few didn't feel like shilling out extra money? I went for one, as did others I know. Please don't say the stand has semi commitment to the team, where the fans sing for the team all game, hardly boo and celebrate goals more vociferously then I ever experienced in the Blackburn End. Pointless post by JAL trying to have a go

[JAL]

It wasn't like the majority of Darwen Enders decided not to turn up, perhaps a few didn't feel like shilling out extra money? I went for one, as did others I know. Please don't say the stand has semi commitment to the team, where the fans sing for the team all game, hardly boo and celebrate goals more vociferously then I ever experienced in the Blackburn End. Pointless post by JAL trying to have a go

Not having a go sambo just calling it as it is. Hopefully you'll all be back to roar the team onto a vital victory this saturday.

[sambo]

Not having a go sambo just calling it as it is. Hopefully you'll all be back to roar the team onto a vital victory this saturday.

How do you know the Darwen End didn't turn up? A few maybe but a lot surely did.

I hope the same!

One thing that irks me with the Darwen End is the chavviness, and the 'lets pretend we've scored a goal' doesn't work at 0-0 with the game on a knife edge. Only works if you're getting pumped 3-0 away from home and decide to have a laugh. Same for the D-I-S-C-O chant, both annoy me. When we were 1-0 down v Birmingham I was perplexed to hear 'lets all have a disco'. I was nearly in bloody tears at the whole thing whilst trying to still back the team!

[47er]

On the Dunn/Rochina thing, I would have brought Hanley on and switched Phil Jones to defensive midfield, taken Roberts off and shored up midfield even further with Pedersen who is quite sound defensively. In other words I'd have played for a point.

That's what Sam would have done and probably would have been booed for.

[jumpin']

At 0-0, against a football shopping list that is Man. City, you don't mess around with your defence. Moving PJ into midfield would've been mad. It would unsettle the new back four, which would be exploited. MGP would've put in his usual flatter to deceive performance (then clap the BBE at the end). RR was the only way. Not his fault but our squad hasn't the depth nor the quality. We shall prevail, but only just.

[tony gale's mic]

At 0-0, against a football shopping list that is Man. City, you don't mess around with your defence. Moving PJ into midfield would've been mad. It would unsettle the new back four, which would be exploited. MGP would've put in his usual flatter to deceive performance (then clap the BBE at the end). RR was the only way. Not his fault but our squad hasn't the depth nor the quality. We shall prevail, but only just.

MGP put in a succession of good performances in midfield last season. We could've stick RR on the wing (where his attributes are better suited) and stuck Bert in the middle. Playing a hugely inexperienced striker in midfield was not the only option.

Our current situation is almost entirely his and Venky's fault.

[hi-jaq]

I went on the game lastnight, and although I chewed through half of my finger ends with nerves... I thought after the 1st 20 minutes we played very well, in fact we haven't played that well since the Spurs game.

In my eyes there can be only one reason for this... 4-4-2!!! Whenever we have 2 strikers on the pitch with 2 central midfielders, 2 wingers and a flat back four I think we operate more effectively, Steve Kean saw this from the end of the Birmingham game & decided to stick to it lastnight... for the most part it worked. I love 4-4-2, the main reason is because it's a simple formation, by playing 4-4-2 we are going back to basics, which is what the players need right now. We don't want to be over complicating tactics, we should be doing what we did lastnight, every man picks up 1 man for the whole game, when we loose possession, get back behind the ball, get in shape and close the opposition down early, we did that for most of the game, and we did it well.

I think our undoing was the substitutions... they were calculated gambles and they backfired. Rochina for Dunn, Striker for Midfielder, whichever way you look at it... would have been hailed as a Masterstroke if the young Spaniard had scored, and with his pace & footwork, it was a risk worth taking as there was every chance he could have got himself into a good position or two. Kalinic for Benjani, now I'm not sure if Predator Head was injured, but he looked OK to me. If he was fine, then Kean took the wrong striker off... Jason Roberts was about as effective as a Chocolate Fireguard for the entire game.

I think what we need right now is a simple formation and players played in their best position. Phil Jones - Centre Half, one of the best in the country, let's not waste him in midfield... Martin Olsson - Left Wing, just needs to learn how to cross & we'll have a real gem of a player... David Dunn - Centre Mid, with Jermaine Jones behind him he finally looks like the Dunny of old... Jason Roberts - Left Back... (IN THE CHANGING ROOM!!!!)

We also need some bloody enthusiasm from our so called "Manager" and a more passion from the supporters like lastnight as us fans were brilliant, not seen Ewood like that since we played the scum last year... MORE OF THE SAME PLEASE!!!

I reckon we stand a chance if we get 4 points... but to really do it I think we will be OK with 6... here's to hoping we start with 3 from the bog trotters this weekend!!! COYB

[Baz]

MGP put in a succession of good performances in midfield last season. We could've stick RR on the wing (where his attributes are better suited) and stuck Bert in the middle. Playing a hugely inexperienced striker in midfield was not the only option.

Totally agree.

[Sysagent]

Looks like many of the Darwen enders didnt show last night which is a shame. Only goes to highlight their semi commitment to the team.

Just hope they are in full voice on saturday which could well be for many of them their last game of the season.

This "Darwen Ender" was there and in full voice can I tell you...

And if I may say I find the tone of your post offensive, perhaps not everybody who has one of the cheaper seats in the Darwen End could afford the full price of £28.00 to watch the match, questioning their commitment to the team is a bit of a cheap shot in my opinion when as previously mentioned it's been the Darwen End that has been the most vocal this Season.

Also did it not occur to you that the attendance figures might have been lower due to the match being held on a holiday and fans might not have been able to make it back in time for the match?

[brian nelsen]

Well said Sysagent. To be fair, I really dont understand why JAL has to bring up stuff like that. My point of view is that its each to their own as to how vocal they wish to be. We have to remember that its squeaky bum time for everyone in that stadium and the tension is pretty much unbearable. Its far easier to sing when your happy. After the initial 15/20 mins of understandable tension at the start, I personally thought we created a darn good atmosphere.

[Gav]

On the Dunn/Rochina thing, I would have brought Hanley on and switched Phil Jones to defensive midfield, taken Roberts off and shored up midfield even further with Pedersen who is quite sound defensively. In other words I'd have played for a point.

That's what Sam would have done and probably would have been booed for.

Or sacked....

I don't think you'll get much opposition to that scenario 47er, but for me, with Rovers well on top, I liked the substitution, showed bottle and intent, and we needed the win being at home.

Ultimately we ended up losing the game, and that 1 point could make all the difference, but I’d much rather us go down fighting than inviting pressure for the last 20 minutes when well on top.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Where did you get me saying that City were in the ascendancy for the second half?

"However, with 20 minutes to go, as a much weaker team against a team looking to break you down, you look to shore up the midfield and protect your back four. Kean did the opposite of this."

[RibbleValleyRover]

Perhaps we could offer MGP another contract? That might get him playing again and putting enough decent performances in to help keep us up.

We might have to do the same again next season at some point.

[Gav]

Perhaps we could offer MGP another contract? That might get him playing again and putting enough decent performances in to help keep us up.

We might have to do the same again next season at some point.

[jim mk2]

I don't think you'll get much opposition to that scenario 47er, but for me, with Rovers well on top (so why change it?) I liked the substitution (why? wrong player in the worng position), showed bottle and intent (read, stupidity and naivity) and we needed the win being at home (a point would have been fine).

Ultimately we ended up losing the game (yup, down to the manager again), and that 1 point could make all the difference (true, making his substitution all the more stupid) , but I'd much rather us go down fighting (we were fighting well before the manager changed the team) than inviting pressure for the last 20 minutes when well on top (why were we inviting pressure? City never looked like scoring after the first 20 mins)

You really do post some tripe.

Do you read your rubbish before pressing the send button ?