[Archived] Phil Jones

[S15]

Man Utd hold the power in this one

Not if they tapped the player up.

Better yet, I know a club in Manchester that will pay £25m.

[PAFELL]

Agree with this.

After seeing him sign a ManU shirt BEFOREhis deal is done, I care not one jot for his 'dreams'.

He will definitely leave now so let's get the maximum for whoever wants him the most. I'd actually be very pleased if Kenny gets revenge for the Roy Keane debacle!

Again his agent has allowed this to happen. This should never be allowed until a deal is complete. Would we let anybody move into the property we are selling, until the deal, money, legal stuff etc, is complete? You wouldn't - I hope - go buying furniture etc for your new property until the deal is complete. Simular situation in my view.

[broadsword]

Not if they tapped the player up.

Better yet, I know a club in Manchester that will pay £25m.

Why would the tapping up matter?

Can you see Jones signing for City now then? I can only see him signing for Man Utd.

[S15]

Why would the tapping up matter?

Can you see Jones signing for City now then? I can only see him signing for Man Utd.

If they tapped him up, we can blackmail them into paying closer to what we want for the player, on the condition that we don't report it.

I bet he joins Man Utd, but for more than the initially quoted figure of £17m.

[BangkokRover]

We're in a very weak position.

We've let him agree terms with Man Utd, have his medical then we're going to ask Man Utd for £9m more than they've offered to pay?

Ridiculous. There's no way the player's coming back to Ewood now, and there's no way we're going to get the money we want.

Rank bad business. Amateur night.

Have Venkey's ever done it any other way?

[PAFELL]

We're in a very weak position.

We've let him agree terms with Man Utd, have his medical then we're going to ask Man Utd for £9m more than they've offered to pay?

Ridiculous. There's no way the player's coming back to Ewood now, and there's no way we're going to get the money we want.

Rank bad business. Amateur night.

No his agent has allowed this. Did the club contact Man U and say come and buy our player? Did the club drive him to manchester? Has the club agreed a 16mill deal? Man U and Phil Jones's agent appear to have not read the contract properly - that is if all this is true. If the situation is true - Rovers are only applying the terms of the contract.

As to PJ will return to the club - hard one to call. Depends on others paying the amont, if not, how mature is PJ to get over the disapointment of not signing for Man U.

Also do not expect any stalemate with 12 minutes to go in a match rovers need either a draw or a win. Another transfer involving man U / Rovers that utd lose out on - fergy will be livid..

[BangkokRover]

Why would the tapping up matter?

Can you see Jones signing for City now then? I can only see him signing for Man Utd.

Why would he want to join City if he wants to win something? SFA has the best trophy record in the UK at the moment, I think only Bob Paisley is better but that could just be European Cups. Only reason anyone joins City is money. So if you are a very average footballer like James Milner, Shaun Wright-Phillips or Wayne Bridge then you know its your big day and go.

[broadsword]

No his agent has allowed this. Did the club contact Man U and say come and buy our player? Did the club drive him to manchester? Has the club agreed a 16mill deal? Man U and Phil Jones's agent appear to have not read the contract properly - that is if all this is true. If the situation is true - Rovers are only applying the terms of the contract.

As to PJ will return to the club - hard one to call. Depends on others paying the amont, if not, how mature is PJ to get over the disapointment of not signing for Man U.

Also do not expect any stalemate with 12 minutes to go in a match rovers need either a draw or a win. Another transfer involving man U / Rovers that utd lose out on - fergy will be livid..

Rovers would have had to give permission for him to talk to Man Utd.

We're not in a good position because it's not practical for him to come back.

[Paul]

Jesus, so the club can't win really can they Paul?

Sell for £16m, and we're selling ourselves cheap. Hold out for what we want and we're 'shattering' our player's dreams. If there is a clause stating that a £16m bid allows a player to talk to another club, then that's what happened. Why should the owners be frowned upon for abiding to the terms of the player's contract, but for also holding out for the sum of money we all know Jones is worth?

First find me any post I've made suggesting £16m is cheap.

Secondly this COULD be a case of our management trying to be too clever. We don't know what has been offered, said or written in the contract. It appears Utd and the player believed the price to be £16m. To ask for £25m at the last moment is not a wise move if it results in the transfer collapsing and Jones returning to Ewood.

Very simple if I spent time negotiating with a supplier only to be asked for 50% more because of a clever use of words I'd be furious.

[vintageadidas]

We are in a great "haggling" position if the reports are true, which I believe they are!

He will never return, united will probably include addons to reach the £22m mark - but the initial outlay being a cool £19m!

[S15]

Very simple if I spent time negotiating with a supplier only to be asked for 50% more because of a clever use of words I'd be furious.

Yep, and I'd be furious if a club illegally approached a player I was paying millions of pounds a year to. Everyone seems quicker to criticise our own club than other peoples at the moment. If there is no clause obliging us to sell at a certain price, then bleed them dry.

This is no different to the Gareth Barry to Liverpool scenario a couple of years ago. Villa let Barry sort out terms/ medical whilst they negotiated a price, but Liverpool wouldn't meet Villa's demands. The player returned.

This situation is far simpler than people are trying to paint it.

[PAFELL]

Rovers would have had to give permission for him to talk to Man Utd.

We're not in a good position because it's not practical for him to come back.

Yes because they have met the minimum part of the clause. The only thing I can think of at the moment is the clause was written so as not to stand in the way of an ambitios player. Yes a club can talk to PJ if they offer the minimum (16Mill), Rovers then talk to the player to see if he wants the talks to start. The player says yes. so the club say ok we will allow the talks and then try to get a deal that is satisfactory to Rovers. 16 mill allows you to talk to the player alone - then you agree a fee with Rovers.

Cannot think of any other scenario - but is still a strange way of doing business. I also wonder if the signing of a new 5 year contract has anything to do with it.

[broadsword]

Yep, and I'd be furious if a club illegally approached a player I was paying millions of pounds a year to.

have United been tapping up then?

have they done anything we haven't done ourselves?

[Blue n White Rover]

We're in a very weak position.

We've let him agree terms with Man Utd, have his medical then we're going to ask Man Utd for £9m more than they've offered to pay?

Ridiculous. There's no way the player's coming back to Ewood now, and there's no way we're going to get the money we want.

Rank bad business. Amateur night.

Phil Jones is currently a Blackburn Rovers player. Correct?

United bid £16m allowing the club to speak to the player. Correct?

Now they've spoken, and both parties are happy, we can negotiate whatever price we like. The £16m was only to let the player speak to the club and not accept it.

I personally think it's very shrewd business by Rovers. Inserted a clause which means we'd get a minimum £16m and then can haggle for the best possible price.

Would you take the £16m?

I'd be gutted if I was a United Official, simply for not doing their homework.

[S15]

have United been tapping up then?

have they done anything we haven't done ourselves?

Reading between the lines regarding what Nicko has said in the transfer target; yes.

I believe the most telling comment is currently quoted in a post on the most recent page of that thread.

[broadsword]

You can't really haggle when the player is practically their's.

You accept a bid first or haggle and get a higher one accepted then you let the player talk.

You don't wait until he's had his medical and has agreed terms for crying out loud, not much of a bargaining piece then, is he?

[S15]

You can't really haggle when the player is practically their's.

You accept a bid first or haggle and get a higher one accepted then you let the player talk.

You don't wait until he's had his medical and has agreed terms for crying out loud, not much of a bargaining piece then, is he?

Like I said, see Barry/ Liverpool.

[broadsword]

See 99.9999999999999999999999% of all other transfers.

[DP]

First find me any post I've made suggesting £16m is cheap.

Secondly this COULD be a case of our management trying to be too clever. We don't know what has been offered, said or written in the contract. It appears Utd and the player believed the price to be £16m. To ask for £25m at the last moment is not a wise move if it results in the transfer collapsing and Jones returning to Ewood.

Very simple if I spent time negotiating with a supplier only to be asked for 50% more because of a clever use of words I'd be furious.

Welcome to India Paul!

I actually find the whole scenario hillarious and if these scumbag agents can't be bothered to do their homework and read the small print on a clause THEY insisted on, they deserve everything they get.

[PAFELL]

Phil Jones is currently a Blackburn Rovers player. Correct?

United bid £16m allowing the club to speak to the player. Correct?

Now they've spoken, and both parties are happy, we can negotiate whatever price we like. The £16m was only to let the player speak to the club and not accept it.

I personally think it's very shrewd business by Rovers. Inserted a clause which means we'd get a minimum £16m and then can haggle for the best possible price.

Would you take the £16m?

I'd be gutted if I was a United Official, simply for not doing their homework.

Good first week for Paul Hunt in the job. A transfer fight with Fergy and Man U. I presume Paul Hunt is involved in this from Rovers side. Kean is in India.

[S15]

See 99.9999999999999999999999% of all other transfers.

But they're unlike this one. The only other one that I recall being remotely like this ended with the player back at his original club. Not suggesting that this will happen, but it's worth noting.

I don't really know what you're issue is? It seems clear to me that United have done something wrong, there is no minimum fee release clause, and we're likely to get more than £17m for the player.

All looks like good news to me.

[Kelbo]

Phil Jones is currently a Blackburn Rovers player. Correct?

United bid £16m allowing the club to speak to the player. Correct?

Now they've spoken, and both parties are happy, we can negotiate whatever price we like. The £16m was only to let the player speak to the club and not accept it.

I personally think it's very shrewd business by Rovers. Inserted a clause which means we'd get a minimum £16m and then can haggle for the best possible price.

Would you take the £16m?

I'd be gutted if I was a United Official, simply for not doing their homework.

If no one else bids, Rovers have to sell for £16,000,000 - end of, we cant change that, if someone bids £18,000,000 then that changes things somewhat, depends what Rovers verbally agreed with Man U for in English Law, in the absence of a written agreeement a verbal one is legally binding.

[Blue n White Rover]

You can't really haggle when the player is practically their's.

You accept a bid first or haggle and get a higher one accepted then you let the player talk.

You don't wait until he's had his medical and has agreed terms for crying out loud, not much of a bargaining piece then, is he?

Hold on a second. Did Rovers tell United to conduct a medical and agree terms? If the rumour is believed to be correct, then I presume all we did was oblige to the contractual agreement and let him speak to United. Which he did.

United are the fools in this one. Not us. We've got a player that's worth £25m and we are holding out for that amount. For the first time in a long while, we're not pushovers.

[broadsword]

The original point was that we've let Man Utd give him his medical and agree terms with him for 2/3rd's of our valuation.

We may well be able to bump up the fee a bit but I'd be surprised if it got into the 20's.

You don't let someone get so close to buying something off you then suddenly up the asking price by 50%. Well, it doesn't make sense to me anyway. maybe it's a master-stroke of haggling that would put a Judean market trader to shame.

[vintageadidas]

In this case it seems united have miss read some of the contractual stipulations. In most cases you would obviously do it as aforementioned but this is a rare case!

United have agreed terms, he has passed his medicals, they like what they see and he has already gone from "just phil jones" to "the future of English football and a potential England captain" and they thought they had a bargain!

United: "How do you want the £16m transferred?"

Rovers: "£16m? - we value him at £25m!"

United: "No, his release clause is £16 and not a penny more, how you want it?"

Rovers: "Read that clause again my friend!"

United: "SH1T......"

Rovers: "Hello?"

Liverpool: "Ey Ey......Liverpool here, we got £17m here for you!!

Rovers; "Laaaaavly"