[Archived] Phil Jones

[roversmum]

Erm - I don't think everyone does, Paul.

[Amo]

Excellent post PAFELL. I've been aware for several months those who post in favour of the Venky's / Raos ultimately resort to rudeness, insults and derogatory remarks directed at anyone who expresses an alternate view. It has always been my experience that if one needs to stoop to this level it is an indication of the poverty of one's argument.

Unlike those darlings TGM, Jim and Gordon?

[Mozzer]

i say good luck to him - no one could have turned this down - disappointing he went as he is such a good player - england captain one day and i feel he is better then evans and smalling so probs will be 3rd choice for now ...wont get a boo from me when back at ewood

[imy9]

Erm - I don't think everyone does, Paul.

Seconded.

[Mattyblue]

i say good luck to him - no one could have turned this down - disappointing he went as he is such a good player - england captain one day and i feel he is better then evans and smalling so probs will be 3rd choice for now ...wont get a boo from me when back at ewood

Must be great being a Man United 'fan', they know they can have any player they want at any time from us 'nothing clubs'. How will we and others EVER bridge the gap without an oil sheikh?

What a lie the Premier League is.

[ABBEY]

Honestly I would have joined United in the same circumstances, people posted on here he could get a serious injury during the next couple of years at Rovers and the chance never appears again, likewise a dip in form, confidence or whatever would scupper his chances, my guess is that SAF has sold Jones on the idea that both he and Chris Smalling will be the future of Man U defence, they play together for the under 21s and they talk, perhaps by speaking to Smalling turned his head a bit but really and truly, I would have made the move, please remember, a footballer is doing a job like the rest of us and the prospects for his career development is far greater than at Rovers.

That's cobblers Kelbo.He isn't doing a job like us at all.He's playing football that's all.A days work would kill ANY footballer.They also earn more in 6 months than most in here can only dream about.

[Kelbo]

That's cobblers Kelbo.He isn't doing a job like us at all.He's playing football that's all.A days work would kill ANY footballer.They also earn more in 6 months than most in here can only dream about.

To a footballer, its a job, simple as, I would have played proffessionally for nothing but when you get into the professional ranks, its a job, no different to anyone else, my dad who was a pro at Burnley loved football but hated being a professional, said it took the enjoyment away from the game, even I with a couple of appearances for a Rovers B Team didnt enjoy the instructions which took away the real enjoyment of the game!!

[Steve Moss]

16-20 million is a fair price for P. Jones. I wish he had decided to stay a Rover, but he didn't. And that is all there is to it.

The real issue is whether we make his sale worthwhile. We stand on the edge of a precipice, with Jones gone, Samba talking and Hoilett not [yet] signing a new deal. Samba is a lost cause, but we need Hoilett. And we need to ensure the Jones/Samba sales improve the Rovers. The real question is whether Kean/Anderson/Venkys are up for it.

[philipl]

I'm really trying to stay positive and not fall back into the trap of fruitless criticism but ... really! This cannot be right!!

It's not enough that we bend over and get rogered the first time on the cash deal now we have to take all the risk of injury whilst he's playing in a tournament?!

Injured and he's our concern, unscathed and he's Manures.

Can we really negotiate our way out of a wet paper bag. Surely we refuse him permission to play and pass the ball to Manure. If they want him to play then they can bl**dy well sign him now.

Talk about bend over and unclench. Yes sir. FFS.

Just adds insult to the injury of Rovers losing the best talent we have had since Shearer IMO.

[Parsonblue]

Just adds insult to the injury of Rovers losing the best talent we have had since Shearer IMO.

With all due respect philipl how do we keep the best talent at Ewood Park? We both go back a fair way and know that selling young talent has been the name of the game since the lifting of the maximum wage. Players are ambitious and want to play at the top level - which today is the Champions League rather than international football. There are six clubs - United, City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool - who have the financial resouces to make that happen. The rest of the Premier League is scrambling around in the hope of snatching a Europa League place or a win a Cup. However, for the majority the first aim is to finish above the bottom three to maintain their share of the Premier League money.

Ultimately, you can't blame players for wanting to play at the top level. It's a short career and only one injury away from ending prematurely. As you say, Jack couldn't keep Shearer at Ewood so what chance has Kean keeping hold of players? In fairness, he has admitted they will do their best to keep players but that he won't keep players who want to play somewhere other than Ewood. As we all know, talk of not being a selling club is foolish as clubs like the Rovers are unable to offer players the opportunity to win many honours or play Champions League football and so players will ensure they get the moves they want. All clubs like the Rovers can do is ensure they get decent money in return. It's pretty depressing, but it's been the same old story since Fred Pickering walked out the door to join Everton in 1964. Apart from those three years between 1992 and 1995, the Rovers have never been in a position to challenge for the top spot since before the First World War. Somehow I don't think things are going to change anytime soon.

[Hughesy]

I'm really trying to stay positive and not fall back into the trap of fruitless criticism but ... really! This cannot be right!!

It's not enough that we bend over and get rogered the first time on the cash deal now we have to take all the risk of injury whilst he's playing in a tournament?!

Injured and he's our concern, unscathed and he's Manures.

Can we really negotiate our way out of a wet paper bag. Surely we refuse him permission to play and pass the ball to Manure. If they want him to play then they can bl**dy well sign him now.

Talk about bend over and unclench. Yes sir. FFS.

Bend over? Negotiate out of a wet paper bag?? Have you just missed the last 5 days where we turned a £16m clause into £20m against the biggest club in the league??

Just adds insult to the injury of Rovers losing the best talent we have had since Shearer IMO.

Drama queens of the board....who said they will cancel the deal? It will all be done, Jones will have already signed his contract with United, just not his transfer papers from Blackburn to United.

Do you really think they would pull out after all the negotiating they have gone through??

[Mattyblue]

Top post Parson, however to me things have got a lost worse since the explosion of the CL.

It is now the be all and end all for players, for clubs, for the media. A 19 year old MUST move to a CL club at the first opportunity. Being a PL regular, being called up for England is not enough.

So how on earth do we bridge the gap? We sel a player for big money, at very best we replace him with a player of similar calibre- ergo the club treads water. Often you will replace him with poorer players- we go backwards To build a club, you need to keep your best players AND keep improving the squad. Something most clubs can no longer do.

[Kelbo]

Just one point here regarding Jones being away with the Under 21s - speaking to a former secretary of a football league club, he tells me that in situations such as these, if the club have thought this out (we dont have an MD here now) Rovers should have the cover through player insurance, there may be a premium due to increase in value but some kind of player insurance should be in place, The FA thermselves will also have insurance in place as Rovers could take out a lawsuit for damages if it scuppered the deal with an injury sustained on international duty.

[des]

For me PJ should of stayed at least one more season with an option to sign for another club. HE will learn more by playing week in week out as he would of done at rovers.

At Man utd for now he will not be playing week in week out, maybe in 1-2 years time but for now he will be a part time bit player. still if he wanted to go them there is not a lot to be done.

[Parsonblue]

I couldn't agree more, Mattyblue, about the Champions League. Things have improved slightly, in terms of qualification, in that we now have six clubs with a chance of qualifying, although in reality Chelsea, United and City are virtually assured of a place because of the resources behind them. By refusing to spend big money Arsenal have allowed Liverpool and Tottenham to get close to them. However, the rest of the League are light years away from these six clubs.

How do we bridge the gap? We don't. It's as simple as that. Unless Venkys are prepared to sink £100 million+ into the club there is no way that we will challenge for the top four. I understand why Kean said what he did yesterday. If the new owners are backing him with money it's not a good PR exercise to say 7th or 8th is all you can expect in return for spending 20 or 30 million. However, that's the reality. The guy at Villa stopped spending when he realised that he was sinking a large part of the family fortune into trying to finish 6th in the Premier League.

The fact that we couldn't keep hold of a 19 year-old, with only a handful of first team appearances behind, him says it all. I don't blame Jones for going and I don't blame Kean or the Rao family for letting him go. Indeed, I don't blame United for buying him. At the end of the day it is simply reflecting the state of English football, at the top level, in 2011. The rich get richer and the rest survive as best they can.

[alexanders]

Top post Parson, however to me things have got a lost worse since the explosion of the CL.

It is now the be all and end all for players, for clubs, for the media. A 19 year old MUST move to a CL club at the first opportunity. Being a PL regular, being called up for England is not enough.

So how on earth do we bridge the gap? We sel a player for big money, at very best we replace him with a player of similar calibre- ergo the club treads water. Often you will replace him with poorer players- we go backwards To build a club, you need to keep your best players AND keep improving the squad. Something most clubs can no longer do.

I think Italy and Germany also to an extent Spain dont have this problem. These leagues are tighter and I think we are on the right way in the PL as well. This season was the tightest one in a long long time.

[ABBEY]

To a footballer, its a job, simple as, I would have played proffessionally for nothing but when you get into the professional ranks, its a job, no different to anyone else, my dad who was a pro at Burnley loved football but hated being a professional, said it took the enjoyment away from the game, even I with a couple of appearances for a Rovers B Team didnt enjoy the instructions which took away the real enjoyment of the game!!

cobblers again...its a different world..different ehtucs and morals .if its any job its part time .lucky if they "work" 10 hours a week.'

[TimmyJimmy]

Bend over? Negotiate out of a wet paper bag?? Have you just missed the last 5 days where we turned a £16m clause into £20m against the biggest club in the league??

Drama queens of the board....who said they will cancel the deal? It will all be done, Jones will have already signed his contract with United, just not his transfer papers from Blackburn to United.

Do you really think they would pull out after all the negotiating they have gone through??

Hey steady on gobby, what's this drama queen stuff. My post was an honest commentary on the way I see the current situation, if you don't like it then put me on ignore or stfu. This is typical of a bunch of posters on this board, ignore the content and attack the poster.

If you'd care to stop for a moment and look at what I posted you will see that, if we are to take the wording at face value, then we will be taking all the risk between now and him signing for Manure. Right now he is not their player, he's still ours, we hold his registration. From an insurance point of view Manure will not have an insurable interest.

Unlike some I don't have any comment to make about Phil moving on one way or the other, disappointed obviously but after the initial hostage to fortune of the release clause being written into his contract I acknowledge that everything that could have been done was done. I'm also prepared to take the charitable view that we gained something extra from the 'negotiations' but my gut feel is that I don't really believe we have if I'm being honest, it's probably just face saving window dressing IMO, but let's let that slide, we'll never know on way or the other.

I hope that risk management is top of mind at Ewood right now. A large part of what I do for a living is negotiate and write very high value contracts so I have a viewpoint - and I cared to express it! Either he should sign now - if there is not some timing issue with transfer window regs (I have no idea about that) - or sign a forward dated contract for later registration. Alternatively Venkys should put their hand in their pocket and fork out for a one off insurance cover should disaster happen and he gets crocked ... or pull him from the competition.

"Do you really think they would pull out after all the negotiating they have gone through?" ... well yes I do.

If in your world you imagine for one second that Fergy would go through with a deal for a player who was not able to play again due to some crippling injury then IMO you should stay in that world and don't come out. Drama queen? Pompous git.

[47er]

I couldn't agree more, Mattyblue, about the Champions League. Things have improved slightly, in terms of qualification, in that we now have six clubs with a chance of qualifying, although in reality Chelsea, United and City are virtually assured of a place because of the resources behind them. By refusing to spend big money Arsenal have allowed Liverpool and Tottenham to get close to them. However, the rest of the League are light years away from these six clubs.

How do we bridge the gap? We don't. It's as simple as that. Unless Venkys are prepared to sink £100 million+ into the club there is no way that we will challenge for the top four. I understand why Kean said what he did yesterday. If the new owners are backing him with money it's not a good PR exercise to say 7th or 8th is all you can expect in return for spending 20 or 30 million. However, that's the reality. The guy at Villa stopped spending when he realised that he was sinking a large part of the family fortune into trying to finish 6th in the Premier League.

The fact that we couldn't keep hold of a 19 year-old, with only a handful of first team appearances behind, him says it all. I don't blame Jones for going and I don't blame Kean or the Rao family for letting him go. Indeed, I don't blame United for buying him. At the end of the day it is simply reflecting the state of English football, at the top level, in 2011. The rich get richer and the rest survive as best they can.

How do we bridge the gap? Gradually. If Venkys have enough money, if they have the right structures and the right people to run them, if we sign the right payers, if the Academy keeps producing we can get better season by season. IF.

If we keep signing freebies and players with no resale value--no chance.If nobodys in charge and we are run on a whim from Pune--no chance.

[yoda]

Hey steady on gobby, what's this drama queen stuff. My post was an honest commentary on the way I see the current situation, if you don't like it then put me on ignore or stfu. This is typical of a bunch of posters on this board, ignore the content and attack the poster.

If you'd care to stop for a moment and look at what I posted you will see that, if we are to take the wording at face value, then we will be taking all the risk between now and him signing for Manure. Right now he is not their player, he's still ours, we hold his registration. From an insurance point of view Manure will not have an insurable interest.

Unlike some I don't have any comment to make about Phil moving on one way or the other, disappointed obviously but after the initial hostage to fortune of the release clause being written into his contract I acknowledge that everything that could have been done was done. I'm also prepared to take the charitable view that we gained something extra from the 'negotiations' but my gut feel is that I don't really believe we have if I'm being honest, it's probably just face saving window dressing IMO, but let's let that slide, we'll never know on way or the other.

I hope that risk management is top of mind at Ewood right now. A large part of what I do for a living is negotiate and write very high value contracts so I have a viewpoint - and I cared to express it! Either he should sign now - if there is not some timing issue with transfer window regs (I have no idea about that) - or sign a forward dated contract for later registration. Alternatively Venkys should put their hand in their pocket and fork out for a one off insurance cover should disaster happen and he gets crocked ... or pull him from the competition.

"Do you really think they would pull out after all the negotiating they have gone through?" ... well yes I do.

If in your world you imagine for one second that Fergy would go through with a deal for a player who was not able to play again due to some crippling injury then IMO you should stay in that world and don't come out. Drama queen? Pompous git.

The Venkies have demostrated over the last few days their business savy, they will have the insurance covered to reflect the players new value

[philipl]

The Venkies have demostrated over the last few days their business savy, they will have the insurance covered to reflect the players new value

It will have cost £000,000s if they arranged the cover in the last few days.

[yoda]

It will have cost £000,000s if they arranged the cover in the last few days.

but your guessing, right?

[BuckyRover]

but your guessing, right?

Crazy talk. It's impossible for the transfer to go through before the 1st of July (transfer window) and as he had a 16m release clause it would make sense that he was already insured for that amount?

No?

[True Blue & White]

Crazy talk. It's impossible for the transfer to go through before the 1st of July (transfer window) and as he had a 16m release clause it would make sense that he was already insured for that amount?

No?

Wrong, the transfer window in England is already open and players moving between English league clubs can happen now and has already happened with several signings already being confirmed. The transfer window in England opens at the end of the season (which this season would have been the day after the EPL final games but usually after the FA Cup final).

The 1st of July Transfer Window only applies to France. Germany, Spain, Italy and Scotland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_window

Although, in England, the transfer window formally opens on 1 July, transfers between clubs in the same association can take place as soon the last competitive fixtures for the season have been played.

[yoda]

Crazy talk. It's impossible for the transfer to go through before the 1st of July (transfer window) and as he had a 16m release clause it would make sense that he was already insured for that amount?

No?

All guess work and used as amunition for some people to have a go at the new owners on any little point that they feel will score points,

maybe they have a new for old clause

ps read True Blue & White's post above