[Archived] Phil Jones

[Hughesy]

Newspapers mum. - and didn't Nicko say the extras were small? Makes no difference really, because we'll never know.

The point is United got a steal.

Nicko said £16.5m rising to £20.5m, Mrs D backed it up and also mentioned 20% sell on of any profit....why will we never know??

[thenodrog]

When Leeds Utd signed Rio he had played over 120 games at the top level (including champions league) and had played for England about 10 times including World Cup 2002.

We've been shafted.

Cue: "but he's going to be better than Rio, I can feel it in my water".

Opinions vary but time will tell. In 10 years time we could all be crying in our beer at the pittance we received whilst the old RFW is still laughing at us, Venky's and Jerome Anderson from beyond the grave

Alternatively Jones could see a tackle smash his leg to smithereens and end his career by Christmas.

At the moment my money's on the former.

[philipl]

I will still feel sick to my toes when I see Phil Jones in a Manc shirt.

Absolutely gutted that he has left so early in his career.

[Mattyblue]

Is 16.5 *possibly* rsing to 20million a good price for a teenager who has played a few dozen games? In theory, yes of course it is.

However, we are talking about an ENGLISH youngster in the madcap domestic transfer market, who had all the 'top clubs' after him. Factor in home grown quotas etc etc, the premiums placed on top English talent, the prices other English youngsters have been sold for and yes, I feel we could have got more.

[thenodrog]

Is 16.5 *possibly* rsing to 20million a good price for a teenager who has played a few dozen games? In theory, yes of course it is.

However, we are talking about an ENGLISH youngster in the madcap domestic transfer market, who had all the 'top clubs' after him. Factor in home grown quotas etc etc, the premiums placed on top English talent, the prices other English youngsters have been sold for and yes, I feel we could have got more.

Simple fact is .... and no one with any gumption can disagree with this is that if Man Utd decided to put him back on the market tomorrow they would ask and get more than 16.5 million. So no matter what mealy mouthed garbage people write he was nicked off us.

Just as an aside would anybody have access to any insurance value MU might put on him?

[braddock]

I do feel sorry for a few posters on this board. They seem the type who'd cry after sex.

Lighten up, I think it was a good deal for everyone involved. We got a hefty sum and wouldn't have got too much more (and if you think it will be spent on poor quality players then what's the point in complaining over the exact price?) and Phil Jones can play for a team he wants to play for. It's United who've made the risk, though I imagine it will pay off. That doesn't mean we deserve any more though.

Overall we've made a lot of money on an inexperienced player who wanted to move on. Hopefully it will be invested wisely and hopefully slowly, no wholesale changes, just gradual change over the next few years as we already have some good foundations which will be fantastic with a few new arrivals. 2 or 3 good quality first team signings in key areas and perhaps a few squad players to replace any dead wood that goes out, but no need to blow it all on one superstar.

Simple fact is .... and no one with any gumption can disagree with this is that if Man Utd decided to put him back on the market tomorrow they would ask and get more than 16.5 million. So no matter what mealy mouthed garbage people write he was nicked off us.

Just as an aside would anybody have access to any insurance value MU might put on him?

What a strange statement to make. Of course his value has gone up, he is playing for Manchester United. That is what happens. Derbyshire's value went up after he signed for Rovers upon the first day of signing did it not? Great Harwood (I think it was) still got a very good price for him though.

Same can be said for Keith Andrews incidentally.

[den]

Explain how.

Didn't I just do that? You really should read posts, rather than just react straight away to anything or anyone, who doesn't go along with your ideas.

To Man Utd, he's a steal. £16m to them is peanuts, when they're in a market of buying players for £30m and selling them for £80m. They would undoubtedly have paid more for Jones.

[Dave S]

The only thing we do know, is that the release clause was set at £16.5m. Other sources say the extras add up to £17m.

Maybe you should reread the Mail article posted by Roversmum.

The Quote is from Mrs D. You could say she is Lying or that it is a misquote. But it is the best we have had to go on. A direct quote and a normally consistant Journalist.

I think you are being a little selective in your sources. I read the ones with quotes and understand that a lot of papers can be wrong. But so far I think that this quote is the best that we have.

[den]

Maybe you should reread the Mail article posted by Roversmum.

The Quote is from Mrs D. You could say she is Lying or that it is a misquote. But it is the best we have had to go on. A direct quote and a normally consistant Journalist.

I think you are being a little selective in your sources. I read the ones with quotes and understand that a lot of papers can be wrong. But so far I think that this quote is the best that we have.

How is saying "we don't know what the fee was" being selective? Just accepting one media report is being selective.

[braddock]

Didn't I just do that? You really should read posts, rather than just react straight away to anything or anyone, who doesn't go along with your ideas.

To Man Utd, he's a steal. £16m to them is peanuts, when they're in a market of buying players for £30m and selling them for £80m. They would undoubtedly have paid more for Jones.

Negotiation is not a one sided affair. The clause helped things but you cannot expect every outbound transfer for Rovers to end with the buying team paying the maximum they would pay. That isn't how business works. Our valuation on a player matters just as much as United's. United know that. If we had turned around and said '£16m to them is peanuts, when they're in a market of buying players for £30m and selling them for £80m.' they would have surely replied that Jones' price will probably never rise above £30mil (him being a centre back) and that will be after becoming a fantastic player for United. If he achieved a lot at United I don't feel it would double his price and when you look at his current experience and the potential of what he can achieve, that leads me to believe we got a very good deal.

If the deal ends up being over £20mil it will be because he will be doing well. If he does well at United and wins a few league titles and becomes their main centre back (which is possible), normally the price of that player would at least quadruple in comparison to what it was when he was developed at lowly Blackburn having only played a few games.

We could have got more perhaps, but it's pointless beating the club with a stick for managing what is a very good deal for us. It's worth noting we could have got less.

[den]

Negotiation is not a one sided affair. The clause helped things but you cannot expect every outbound transfer for Rovers to end with the buying team paying the maximum they would pay. That isn't how business works. Our valuation on a player matters just as much as United's. United know that. If we had turned around and said '£16m to them is peanuts, when they're in a market of buying players for £30m and selling them for £80m.' they would have surely replied that Jones' price will probably never rise above £30mil (him being a centre back) and that will be after becoming a fantastic player for United. If he achieved a lot at United I don't feel it would double his price and when you look at his current experience and the potential of what he can achieve, that leads me to believe we got a very good deal.

If the deal ends up being over £20mil it will be because he will be doing well. If he does well at United and wins a few league titles and becomes their main centre back (which is possible), normally the price of that player would at least quadruple in comparison to what it was when he was developed at lowly Blackburn having only played a few games.

We could have got more perhaps, but it's pointless beating the club with a stick for managing what is a very good deal for us. It's worth noting we could have got less.

Just to remind you what my point is:

Stop putting him down because he's left Rovers Hughesy.

He's the best young centre half in the country. If we take off our rovers specs, then United have got a steal. Minimum 15 years out of him for a paltry £16m - which is peanuts in the market Man Utd deal in. Truth is because of another release clause, we didn't get maximum money for him.

[Dave S]

How is saying "we don't know what the fee was" being selective? Just accepting one media report is being selective.

Quotations from interviews are generally the best info that we can judge a story. Unless people are telling porkies.

Articles of recycled material are not generally reliable. Most of which seem to have a stab at a fee. You have read the Harris article which gives you the best "Quote" and only quote that I have seen.

[den]

.....also hated how the commentators waxed lyrical about him the whole game, 2 weeks ago they wouldnt have give 2 hoots about him!

Phil Jones is from Leyland. Last week the newsboards around town were "local footballer gets his dream move to Man Utd". These headlines were from the Lancashire evening post - a local newspaper that gives game coverage to PNE, Blackpool and Rovers.

I don't remember any headlines when he made his debut for the local Premier League side BRFC. Surely, playing for a local team - and a team that he supported was his dream? That didn't get the coverage.

[den]

Quotations from interviews are generally the best info that we can judge a story. Unless people are telling porkies.

Articles of recycled material are not generally reliable. Most of which seem to have a stab at a fee. You have read the Harris article which gives you the best "Quote" and only quote that I have seen.

Yes, but you're looking at the fee from Rovers point of view - which is fine. I'm making the point from Man Utd's point of view and paying 16m with unknown add ons is a steal - to them. As for whether we got the top price for him, then apparently Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool all wanted him. We would without doubt have got a better price apart from the release clause being there - which is my other point.

[Mattyblue]

Unfortunately den, 'playing for a big club/in the CL' is all that matters.

I was out on Friday and talking to a load of Rovers fans, some fanatical, some fair weather. There was only a few of us saying he should have stayed.

When I said my dream as a kid was 'playing for Rovers, not Man United', I was sniggered at- by ROVERS FANS!

No wonder we have hit the glass ceiling as a club.

[braddock]

Unfortunately den, 'playing for a big club/in the CL' is all that matters.

I was out on Friday and talking to a load of Rovers fans, some fanatical, some fair weather. There was only a few of us saying he should have stayed.

When I said my dream as a kid was 'playing for Rovers, not Man United', I was sniggered at- by ROVERS FANS!

No wonder we have hit the glass ceiling as a club.

You would play for Manchester United if you were a professional footballer and good enough. It's easy to say you wouldn't but deep down, as a professional, you would.

[Mattyblue]

Speak for yourself, my greatest honour would be playing for Blackburn Rovers. If I was good enough and BRFC couldn't offer me trophies, I would move abroad after giving Rovers a few years.

Or I would just do a Le Tiss.

[braddock]

Speak for yourself, my greatest honour would be playing for Blackburn Rovers. If I was good enough and BRFC couldn't offer me trophies, I would move abroad after giving Rovers a few years.

Or I would just do a Le Tiss.

You probably wouldn't play under Venky's for a start. And you wouldn't be able to keep your mouth shut and become a nuisance.

[Mattyblue]

Well if they were happy to offer me 80k a week, I'd learn to keep quiet...

[braddock]

If that were the case and you'd go against your principles for how the club should be going and just take the money then you'd play for Utd.

[Dave S]

Yes, but you're looking at the fee from Rovers point of view - which is fine. I'm making the point from Man Utd's point of view and paying 16m with unknown add ons is a steal - to them. As for whether we got the top price for him, then apparently Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool all wanted him. We would without doubt have got a better price apart from the release clause being there - which is my other point.

I agree with most of what you say Den. My only point was regarding sources that quotes are all we can go on no matter whether it supports our point of view or not. All part of research. The fact that Mrs D has had an interview and delivered info should not go ignored.

As for the add ons. If he doesn't do well then we don't get em. Simple as. A bit like Roger Jones.

We have lost a decent player with as yet unfulfilled potential. It will be with mixed feelings when he is playing against us and when he pulls on an England shirt. I honestly believe that he should have stayed at Rovers for at least another year. Maybe two, get 100 appearances under his belt and then move to a championsleague club as an established England international. That would have been major money all round especially for jones' bank balance. If he didn't push on then he would have been a very solid centerhalf for us. I think he has been misadvised.

He could have learned his trade and made mistakes with us, Not with them. The press will slaughter him.

As for sources. I was working near London Colney in February and was fortunate to be talking to a couple of junior coaches of a couple of football clubs in the area. They reckoned that some of the major clubs were hanging back from Jones to see how he developed. They shared the view that he had time on his side to improve at Rovers. How close they were to significant people at their clubs is unknown.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Speak for yourself, my greatest honour would be playing for Blackburn Rovers. If I was good enough and BRFC couldn't offer me trophies, I would move abroad after giving Rovers a few years.

Or I would just do a Le Tiss.

What .. just play for So'ton?

[AggyBlue]

We have lost a decent player with as yet unfulfilled potential. It will be with mixed feelings when he is playing against us and when he pulls on an England shirt. I honestly believe that he should have stayed at Rovers for at least another year. Maybe two, get 100 appearances under his belt and then move to a championsleague club as an established England international. That would have been major money all round especially for jones' bank balance. If he didn't push on then he would have been a very solid centerhalf for us. I think he has been misadvised.

He could have learned his trade and made mistakes with us, Not with them. The press will slaughter him.

Plus one

[Stuart]

I agree with most of what you say Den. My only point was regarding sources that quotes are all we can go on no matter whether it supports our point of view or not. All part of research. The fact that Mrs D has had an interview and delivered info should not go ignored.

As for the add ons. If he doesn't do well then we don't get em. Simple as. A bit like Roger Jones.

We have lost a decent player with as yet unfulfilled potential. It will be with mixed feelings when he is playing against us and when he pulls on an England shirt. I honestly believe that he should have stayed at Rovers for at least another year. Maybe two, get 100 appearances under his belt and then move to a championsleague club as an established England international. That would have been major money all round especially for jones' bank balance. If he didn't push on then he would have been a very solid centerhalf for us. I think he has been misadvised.

He could have learned his trade and made mistakes with us, Not with them. The press will slaughter him.

As for sources. I was working near London Colney in February and was fortunate to be talking to a couple of junior coaches of a couple of football clubs in the area. They reckoned that some of the major clubs were hanging back from Jones to see how he developed. They shared the view that he had time on his side to improve at Rovers. How close they were to significant people at their clubs is unknown.

As long as agents continue to take the money they do out of the game, this will always be so.

[den]

I don't know why you bother.

All historical transfers point to the fact we got a good price. He's the most expensive teenage defender ever. Anyone who has gone for around the same price previously had international caps and more appearances. He also has had a bad knee injury.

Den must have had a very interesting career. Expecting to be paid as much for potential as for experience. it doesn't work like that and never has.

I've made my points Bucky. But hey, it's just Venky bashing in your eyes.

As for your point above, Venky's were apparently livid because they thought he was worth £25m. So they didn't agree with your idea that we got a good price. In fact they said the only reason they didn't go to court over the issue was because of their respect for Phil Jones himself.