[Archived] Phil Jones

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

not forgetting the spine of the Premeir winning side, the spine was Flowers, Hendry and Shearer!!

In fairness you could argue it was marshalled by Tony Gale, Ian Pearce also played a role. Prior to that the old warhorse Moran did a sterling job as well. None of these players cost much. It is how effective they are as a unit.

[Tom]

JAL - Diana Vickers should be the role model for young females?

So they should all go to an expensive school and then go on a reality tv show in the hope of being famous?

Screw that.

As for Jones as usual mercerman is overdramatic, if we got a huge offer no owners nor manager would keep the player as evidenced in the past. Was it over for Jack when Shearer left?

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

I really don't understand where you are coming from here. I'm bemused by your stance.

Centre backs can win you games, although it's a team effort anyway.

Maybe I'm not getting what you're driving at?

It was in response to post 110 which stated that 'P Jones should not be sold as he has all the signs of being one of the greats'

My argument was/is that a great defender does not neccessarily equal a great defence. Lets face it we supposedly have two good centrebacks but we've still leaked goals all season. The defence plays as a unit. Whereas if we are comparing Jones to similar 'great players' then over a season a player such as Shearer or Ronaldo had/have the ability to win games and gain points - a CB has less influence.

If you took Jones out of the side and played Givet & Samba or Nelsen & Samba do you think we would concede 20-25 more goals than with Jones in the side?

Whereas a striker such as Bent or a player in his price bracket would likely add 20 + goals to our tally and thus earn us more points.

So basically, IFwe were offered silly money for Jones and IF the money was made available for a quality goal scorer I would sell and get the striker in evry time.

All hypothetical of course

[Steve Moss]

Yeah, that right. They'd deserve to go simply because of that. Because we've never, ever lost any of our bright young prospects to bigger clubs have we Misery? I mean, you should know having been a Rovers supporter for over a century. That Ferguson bloke should have gone when he let Madrid take Ronaldo as well.

It would undermine Venkys' credibility [again]. Why sell a CB like Jones to a top 6 club if your objective is to become a top 6 club? It occurs to me that we should be recruiting top 6 players for each positions, and not selling them off when we develop one, if Venkys really want to challenge for Europe.

Jones is half of our central defense. He is a quality talent. Over time we can add to our back 4 and the rest of the squad. A player like Jones gives us time. He's a teenager. So long as he stays loyal, we have a decade or more to develop a team around him. Sell him and we're back to square one, a selling club.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

It would undermine Venkys' credibility [again]. Why sell a CB like Jones to a top 6 club if your objective is to become a top 6 club? It occurs to me that we should be recruiting top 6 players for each positions, and not selling them off when we develop one, if Venkys really want to challenge for Europe.

Jones is half of our central defense. He is a quality talent. Over time we can add to our back 4 and the rest of the squad. A player like Jones gives us time. He's a teenager. So long as he stays loyal, we have a decade or more to develop a team around him. Sell him and we're back to square one, a selling club.

We were a top four club when we lost Shearer and an economic powerhouse to boot. Once he decided he was away that was that. Not even Jack Walker could stop him. When I was a young kid I remember older lads being in despair because a man called Tony Field was going away.

Prior to that Rovers lost the likes of John Byrom and Fred Pickering to "bigger clubs". Supporting the club through four decades I could rattle off similar disappointments when favourite players have sought pastures new. Twas ever thus.

Phil Jones is a top prospect. I believe he is a genuine Rover and a decent lad as well. All that counts for nowt if his agent starts to whisper in his ear about how much better he'd be at club A or club B. When that happens blaming Venkys will grossly unfair. Some will still do it though.

[Steve Moss]

We were a top four club when we lost Shearer and an economic powerhouse to boot. Once he decided he was away that was that. Not even Jack Walker could stop him.

Has there even been a hint that Jones wants away? The ONLY information we've received (true or false) is that at one point he was to be sold against his will, but an injury intervened.

Unlike Samba and others, Jones has been very positively a Rover. Sell Samba if they must, but if Jones is sold Venkys will have burned every bridge with me. Ditto the other youth whom we could build a top 6 club around, Hoilett, Olsson and N'Zonzi.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Has there even been a hint that Jones wants away? The ONLY information we've received is that at one point he was to be sold against his will, but an injury intervened.

Unlike Samba and others, Jones has been very positively a Rover. Sell Samba if they must, but if Jones is sold Venkys will have burned every bridge with me.

I dont believe that Jones has said anything to suggest that he wants away. Nor have the club hinted at wanting to sell as far as I am aware. The grubby tabloid rags who see Rovers as a soft target are starting to spread rumours which have been perpetuated by some unsurprising forum members on here.

If Jones is sold against his will I will be equally aghast and want an explanation. Nothing, other than mischief making, to suggest Jones is leaving.

Yet.

[Steve Moss]

If Jones is sold against his will I will be equally aghast and want an explanation. Nothing, other than mischief making, to suggest Jones is leaving.

And I hope it is nothing but paper talk. I know full well that papers are not the most reliable purveyors of information (though Nicko did better than most).

Having said that, Jones is under a 5 year contract. He's not going anywhere unless the owners countenance it. There is absolutely no excuse for his sale, if one were to occur.

[Iceman]

it does go against what the owners have said, and that is to keep our best players and no need to sell. if we do sell Samba and Jones, then we basically in the same situation as before. I don't want to jump the gun, but if we do sell, and Venkys don't re invest every penny in new signings, then we might as well have just sold the club to JW and Tom Finn. At least we would still be in good hands. dramatic? me? Never!!

[JAL]

JAL - Diana Vickers should be the role model for young females?

So they should all go to an expensive school and then go on a reality tv show in the hope of being famous?

Screw that.

As for Jones as usual mercerman is overdramatic, if we got a huge offer no owners nor manager would keep the player as evidenced in the past. Was it over for Jack when Shearer left?

This school is a Blackburn school regardless of costs, so yet another positive for Blackburn. Diana Vickers is a young, pretty, attractive, intelligent young girl who is doing very well in the UK at large which is what i'm sure young Phil Jones is going to be doing in the colours of BLACKBURN.

[Hughesy]

Jack Walker sold key players – aka Alan Shearer

The trust sold key players – RSC, Bentley etc

United sold Ronaldo, Van Nistelrooy, Beckham etc

Yet if Venkys do the same they should go?? Give over man! Misery noticed you haven’t posted much lately, things going against your wishes with us staying up?

The key for us is being in a strong position and having the CHOICE on who we sell and don’t sell. Aslong as players are on decent contracts then WE decide. I can see Samba & Givet being sold this summer…….If you look at Samba’s comments yesterday about signings then he could possibly stay if we sign good enough players, but il believe that when I see it. Givet seems unsettled away from France and seems trouble so I’d consider letting him go too.

EVERY player has a price. If someone offered us £25-30m for Phil Jones then we would be bonkers not to look at it. Yes he looks like an exceptional talent but who is to say he wont start to get injuries or fade a little. £20m+ could help us improve 2 other areas + replace him.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

EVERY player has a price. If someone offered us £25-30m for Phil Jones then we would be bonkers not to look at it. Yes he looks like an exceptional talent but who is to say he wont start to get injuries or fade a little. £20m+ could help us improve 2 other areas + replace him.

Agree completely. We aren't a big enough (well funded enough) club to run the risk of a talent depreciating. Especially when there are experienced players like Milito and Heinze on free transfers that in the short term would slot into our defence.

IMO Phil Jones is easier to replace than Samba. Jones has not reached his full potential yet so we wouldn't really know what we're missing!

[Stuart]

It would not make sense to sell Jones already.

A lot of what our owners have done so far has not made much sense. This is probably what is driving the paranoia!

Aye this window is going to be a testing one for the Venky's but it will clearly define their ambitions as far as Rovers are concerned.

This is key for me. Are they really here for the long haul? Are they going to get to a break-even point as soon as possibly and only use the club's money to re-invest? In other words the Trust's model. Or do they really intend to take the club forward by investing their own money?

I dont believe that Jones has said anything to suggest that he wants away. Nor have the club hinted at wanting to sell as far as I am aware. The grubby tabloid rags who see Rovers as a soft target are starting to spread rumours which have been perpetuated by some unsurprising forum members on here.

If Jones is sold against his will I will be equally aghast and want an explanation. Nothing, other than mischief making, to suggest Jones is leaving.

Yet.

A pretty balanced post DGS. Maybe we all just need to calm down and see what happens. It's just that everytime we have done this so far we have been disappointed (except for "Survival Sunday"). Just a shame about your Nicko-ism at the end of your post!

[G Somerset Rover]

Rather than this debate that's going on, does anybody know if there is any truth in the Liverpool rumours?

[OscarRaven]

Venky's: Business model buy young players, develop them and move them on at a substantial profit.

Rovers Fans: ohhh how clever what a great idea.

Venky's: Sell on Jones for a hefty mark-up. Re-invest in young unknowns.

Rovers fans: Thats the end for Venky's how could they sell Phil Jones, protest time!

Hmmm... some of you don't quite get this do you?

[BRFC95]

Venky's: Business model buy young players, develop them and move them on at a substantial profit.

Rovers Fans: ohhh how clever what a great idea.

Venky's: Sell on Jones for a hefty mark-up. Re-invest in young unknowns.

Rovers fans: Thats the end for Venky's how could they sell Phil Jones, protest time!

Hmmm... some of you don't quite get this do you?

The idea is to get 2 or 3 good years out of them before selling for a hefty profit.

[JAL]

Venky's: Business model buy young players, develop them and move them on at a substantial profit.

Rovers Fans: ohhh how clever what a great idea.

Venky's: Sell on Jones for a hefty mark-up. Re-invest in young unknowns.

Rovers fans: Thats the end for Venky's how could they sell Phil Jones, protest time!

Hmmm... some of you don't quite get this do you?

Venky's: Invest in young players and win things..............

Rovers fans: DO NOT SELL TOP PLAYERS AT ANY COST.............

Rovers fans selling the better players then better clear off and go and support another team.

Hope you get it.... OscarRaven

Is that any clearer.

[OscarRaven]

The idea is to get 2 or 3 good years out of them before selling for a hefty profit.

Ahhh sorry my fault the fixed time period was probably in the small print.... I just thought when running a business model like that you would look to maximise the return (which granted maybe with 2-3 good years) relativley independent of timing.

Hope you get it.... OscarRaven

Not really, but I'm sure if you try and structure your point better, I will do.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Invest in young players and win things.............. DO NOT SELL AT ANY COST... Rovers fans !

Rovers fans selling the better players then better clear off and go and support another team.

Hope you get it.... OscarRaven

Great plan! Apart from the minor point of how a club that structurally loses money every year would continue in that vein.

When I was a young kid I remember older lads being in despair because a man called Tony Field was going away.

Why did you have to remind me of that??? It's like it happened yesterday, attracted by the gold-paved streets of Sheffield

[JAL]

Great plan! Apart from the minor point of how a club that structurally loses money every year would continue in that vein.

Why did you have to remind me of that??? It's like it happened yesterday, attracted by the gold-paved streets of Sheffield

So where is the investment or did I totally miss that point or is it widely accepted now that Venky's never promised or never intended to provide any money on a regular basis for the club.

If so, my apologies for this misunderstanding but thats what I want to see happening for the club.

[Exiled in Toronto]

So where is the investment or did I totally miss that point or is it widely accepted now that Venky's never promised or never intended to provide any money on a regular basis for the club.

If so, my apologies for this misunderstanding but thats what I want to see happening for the club.

You seriously expect them to pump millions in every year ad infinitum without any prospect of it ever breaking even? Plus still get your cheap tickets, subsidised coach travel and vouchers for free pies?

Recruiting and developing excellent young prospects who are sold somewhere down the line to top clubs is the only sustainable model for a club like us, but it needs funding in the early years to prime the engine. We'll find out soon enough if they are going to do that. but no matter who owns us, Jones will end up at a top 4 club sometime.

[Mattyblue]

As previous posters have said, unless you are competing for honours, you're top players are likely to leave.

Being a PL club paying top wages makes not one jot of difference. Football in this country is totally geared to the 'big' clubs. As soon as a player/manager has a good season it is expected that he will move on to 'further his ambitions'. The media will ensure that the ridiculous notion of top players playing for clubs like BRFC is soon knocked on the head.

It makes you wonder what the point of it all is, but c'est la vie.

[BRFC95]

Ahhh sorry my fault the fixed time period was probably in the small print.... I just thought when running a business model like that you would look to maximise the return (which granted maybe with 2-3 good years) relativley independent of timing.

No Rovers fan is bothered too much about maximising returns, it's all about success on the pitch for supporters.

Are you a Rovers fan or a Venky's business empire fan?

[47er]

You seriously expect them to pump millions in every year ad infinitum without any prospect of it ever breaking even? Plus still get your cheap tickets, subsidised coach travel and vouchers for free pies?

Recruiting and developing excellent young prospects who are sold somewhere down the line to top clubs is the only sustainable model for a club like us, but it needs funding in the early years to prime the engine. We'll find out soon enough if they are going to do that. but no matter who owns us, Jones will end up at a top 4 club sometime.

2 points-----there must be an optimum time to sell just as there is an optimum time to buy. Canny Kenny would know Phil Jones is only going to get better and his value will soar.

So, if you want the best by the club in terms of cash we deserve the big money not Liverpool. Imagine how we'd feel if we get 15-20M for him now and he becomes a regular England player, even captain. Liverpool could double or triple their money in 3 years----he'd still be only 22 years old!

Secondly, if he doesn't want to go then the notion of making him go makes me feel sick. Stay as long as you like should be the motto for me.

[Exiled in Toronto]

2 points-----there must be an optimum time to sell just as there is an optimum time to buy. Canny Kenny would know Phil Jones is only going to get better and his value will soar.

So, if you want the best by the club in terms of cash we deserve the big money not Liverpool. Imagine how we'd feel if we get 15-20M for him now and he becomes a regular England player, even captain. Liverpool could double or triple their money in 3 years----he'd still be only 22 years old!

Secondly, if he doesn't want to go then the notion of making him go makes me feel sick. Stay as long as you like should be the motto for me.

Agree on all of that. Of course, what has changed is that the top 4 buy them much younger these days, eg Carroll. The notion that if we had the next Shearer he'd score 150 goals for us before moving is ludicrous now.

And we shouldn't be selling against players wills, although that is exactly what we did with Speedie for example, so the needs of the club will usually triumph.