[Archived] Phil Jones

[den]

Imy,

Jones would get into this side at centre forward.

In fact, he'd walk into any position.

[Hughesy]

Imy,

Jones would get into this side at centre forward.

In fact, he'd walk into any position.

Funny that he wasnt 1st choice defender or midfielder last season - yet this season we have more options.

He was an exciting prospect, he has the potential, but he WASNT 1st choice for us, whether you believe he should be or not.

We had a release clause, that was met, we squeezed abit more + clauses, he's gone - GET OVER IT!

[imy9]

Where do you get the 20% sell-on figure from?

I have never heard of that, nor does seem in the remotest part likely that United would agree to it when they need reason to do so whatsoever.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2005290/Blackburn-owners-We-let-Jones-feared-harming-career-fighting-legal-battle.html

Three quarters of the way down:

Blackburn could earn further millions, over and above that sum through a 20 per cent sell-on clause.

Nicko confirmed it too (I think)

[FourLaneBlue]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2005290/Blackburn-owners-We-let-Jones-feared-harming-career-fighting-legal-battle.html

Three quarters of the way down:

Blackburn could earn further millions, over and above that sum through a 20 per cent sell-on clause.

Nicko confirmed it too (I think)

In other words, it is just speculation. A 20% sell-on clause sounds far too good to be true. That could potentially be worth 10million or so to us should he do really well and fulfill his potential, doubt they would ever have agreed to that.

[imy9]

In other words, it is just speculation. A 20% sell-on clause sounds far too good to be true. That could potentially be worth 10million or so to us should he do really well and fulfill his potential, doubt they would ever have agreed to that.

I don't see any rebuttal from United, there was no add ons according to most sources but this confirms that there are some. Nick harris has covered a number of stories related to venky's and they have been correct, can't see why one set of figures will be correct and the others incorrect, unless there is a counter source

[FourLaneBlue]

Funny that he wasnt 1st choice defender or midfielder last season - yet this season we have more options.

He was an exciting prospect, he has the potential, but he WASNT 1st choice for us, whether you believe he should be or not.

We had a release clause, that was met, we squeezed abit more + clauses, he's gone - GET OVER IT!

He was 1st choice for us Hughesy. It may have been in central midfield - at times in defence - but he really was.

In fact, his return inspired the rest of the team. Jones played much better after his namesake's return.

Whatever. It is neither important or interesting. We did very well to get a heck of a lot of money for a player we must have spent very little on developing in comparison to the transfer fee we received.

I don't see any rebuttal from United

Why on earth would they rebut one sentence in a Daily Mail article? What are you talking about?

I would lay good money that United did not agree to a sell-on clause. They may have paid a bit more than they needed to in order to force through the transfer but, ultimately, they were in the right and Venky's didn't have a leg to stand on.

The main thing Venky's had in their favour were their delaying tactics. However, it would have gone through sooner or later.

[Inta Beaver]

Wayne Rooney has put this about Jones on twitter.

@Ph1lj0nes were did u get ur highlights done mate. Thinking about getting it done myself. They look awesome haha

That is class.

[philipl]

Some pathetic stuff on here.

Quite simply Phil Jones will be the greatest player Rovers have produced from within our ranks since the 1960s.

Sick that he has gone to pay Jerome Anderson's bills.

[imy9]

He was 1st choice for us Hughesy. It may have been in central midfield - at times in defence - but he really was.

In fact, his return inspired the rest of the team. Jones played much better after his namesake's return.

Whatever. It is neither important or interesting. We did very well to get a heck of a lot of money for a player we must have spent very little on developing in comparison to the transfer fee we received.

Why on earth would they rebut one sentence in a Daily Mail article? What are you talking about?

I would lay good money that United did not agree to a sell-on clause. They may have paid a bit more than they needed to in order to force through the transfer but, ultimately, they were in the right and Venky's didn't have a leg to stand on.

The main thing Venky's had in their favour were their delaying tactics. However, it would have gone through sooner or later.

You know for definite that Man Utd were in the 'right', on what basis?

Would you pay an extra £4 million if you knew you were right?

Delaying tactics? When Man Utd first bid to when the deal went through was in under a week!

Nick Harris has broken several Venkys related stories before other outlets, he mentioned the figures when most other sources claimed that £16.5 million was the completed price, so why would his figure of a sell on clause be incorrect- bar of course your guesswork.

PJ looks a cracking player for United but it has been a few games and he is playing alongside world class talent, we got the biggest transfer for a 19 year old defender in Britain maybe in Europe on the back of less than a full season in the PL.

[philipl]

You know for definite that Man Utd were in the 'right', on what basis?

Would you pay an extra £4 million if you knew you were right?

Delaying tactics? When Man Utd first bid to when the deal went through was in under a week!

Nick Harris has broken several Venkys related stories before other outlets, he mentioned the figures when most other sources claimed that £16.5 million was the completed price, so why would his figure of a sell on clause be incorrect- bar of course your guesswork.

PJ looks a cracking player for United but it has been a few games and he is playing alongside world class talent, we got the biggest transfer for a 19 year old defender in Britain maybe in Europe on the back of less than a full season in the PL.

Are you saying Nick Harris is Mrs Desai's mouthpiece in a roundabout way?

[FourLaneBlue]

I didn't say we didn't get good money for him. In fact, I would obviously be over the moon if we have a 20% sell-on clause!

I just can't see it.

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Some pathetic stuff on here.

Quite simply Phil Jones will be the greatest player Rovers have produced from within our ranks since the 1960s.

Sick that he has gone to pay Jerome Anderson's bills.

Given the armageddon you were attempting to foist upon the club it beggars belief that you even still post on here never mind that you post the same stuff ad infinitum.

[philipl]

Given the armageddon you were attempting to foist upon the club it beggars belief that you even still post on here never mind that you post the same stuff ad infinitum.

Hello sweetheart

[deryck guyler's spoon]

Hello sweetheart

Hello pianoman

[Miker]

Funny that he wasnt 1st choice defender or midfielder last season - yet this season we have more options.

He was an exciting prospect, he has the potential, but he WASNT 1st choice for us, whether you believe he should be or not.

I think this says more about Kean than Jones to be honest.

[Amo]

Some pathetic stuff on here.

Quite simply Phil Jones will be the greatest player Rovers have produced from within our ranks since the 1960s.

Sick that he has gone to pay Jerome Anderson's bills.

[super_arran]

Hello pianoman

Sing us a song tonight

[Majiball]

Whilst Jones may not have been a 1st choice in his position, he was most certainly a starter in our 1st eleven. Since his premier league debut against chelsea he hasn't looked back and how many 18 year olds man mark one of the best CF's in our league out of the game. I honestly can't remember such a debut by a kid and then he went on to maintain that level of form as well throughout the next season. It was no coincidence that our results improved when he was playing in our eleven and was a key reason we stayed up last season, despite being played out of position. There are not many 18-19 year olds playing to the level Jones was for us in this league, let alone the rest of the world and this for me is key. It was never just about Jones the player but Jones the man and this is the part I think most people miss.

Phil Jones from day one did something most 18-19 year olds brick themselves at doing, giving orders and talking on the pitch, but more importantly orders and instructions that had purpose (check out our results with him on the pitch last year). Jones is a leader, but also a cracking defender, just look at Smallings record with Fulham. Signed @ 18, debut at 19, around 13 apps total at Fulham 1 full season, Jones on the other hand? Made about 35 apps, debut a year earlier (Smalling didn't achieve anything like man marking Drogba off the pitch at Fulham) and spent most of his time out of position in midfield (far more demanding role than CB ever will be). Smalling played against Chelsea had a mare and scored the winning goal for chelsea, now I'm not saying that Jones is a better player both look remarkable prospects at present but there is a clear difference in the impression both have made on the game to date. Jones stands out for me as his teams results when he was playing were good especially against strong opposition and when you consider his talking on the pitch on top of his playing ability, then blow me you really have something. Most footballers just play, they don't give instructions or guidance on the pitch nor do they inspire and encourage at the same time constantly and this for me is the reason I feel we have under sold Jones.

20M may have been a good price for young Wayne Rooney way back in 2004 but it's 2011 now and the record transfer fee is 80M and 20-30M pound transfer fees are very common. Since those days we've seen serious cash enter football and even a CF with nothing like the level of performance Jones had displayed, nor the personality traits, selling for 30M. Jones signed his new deal with the 16.5M release clause during Venky's reign and at a time when when he had been playing well and had made his mark on the game. You also have to consider our issues with clauses in the past at this stage and ask who at that time was pulling the strings (transfer & contract wise) and their consequent motives. Because to this day I cannot get my head round that clause ever being there and being so low, given not 1 month earlier Carroll went for double at 30M. This is the day of arab oil barons and multi billionaire owners who will quite happily spunk 100M+ a window on fees alone. It's absolute madness and if I'm being 100% honest, it being so low indicates to me that selling was always the intent. When the deal was signed as given the number and financial clout of the teams being linked in January an auction of rich clubs always beckoned, but yet we set a limit on the sale in todays age of fee's. Especially when you consider how complete a player he really is, hopefully that's come across in the paragraphs above, but the one thing I haven't yet stated is that Jones is a captain and not only that the ideal one (does he not remind people of a calmer Roy Keane? Fergies been chasing that personality type in a player of strong ability for ages).

For starters his position CB allows him to see the whole pitch and appreciate it all, he also talks a lot and gives out strong instructions and encouragement to his team mates. When he plays everyone plays better as well, just check out our results when he played last season and Uniteds this. You see Jones is the ideal captain in the making, he doesn't just lead by example ala Stevie G but also through his voice ala JT and Adams. And that really is the type of player we are talking about, his ability and personality have always displayed that he will wear the armband and do it well akin to the names mentioned. What price a 20 year old Tony Adams or John Terry these days? 20-30M perhaps more with add-ons who knows, we never will anyway. He is a future England captain and it was obvious from what we had seen in his displays on our pitch that that was exactly where he had the ability to go and will. Just look at the start he's made at United, he's playing in any position, doing it well and United are playing some fantastic football at present, they've raised the bar this season to date. Jones hasn't needed a season to bed ala Smalling he's walked straight in to the 1st 11 and made the England squad, coincidence? Regardless of how you feel about that one, he's been on the pitch during some cracking displays this season, he's played a role and so contributed to it all. And here's the real rub for me.

I honestly don't think some of our fans realise what we had in Jones and only saw a kid with potential to be a good centre back, as opposed to what I see & saw a future England captain and JT's replacement eventually, not just as a CB but as a captain. Because of this I can see why people are happy with 16.5M, but I can never be as I posted at the time of his sale it's a bargain. Not only have we lost a future England CB but we've also lost the future captain and inspirer of this nation, for pennies, due to some silly clause inserted at a time when Venky's and SEM where in full swing. And that before you consider not 2 weeks earlier the man in charge of our transfers/contracts was sanctioning 1.6M agents fees for Rochina and a fee we'd wouldn't believe for Formica. I honestly feel where Jones is concerned we have shot ourselves in the foot, from his contract to not showing him or proving to him that champions league beckoned with Rovers whilst we had day to day contact with him.

I haven't mourned the loss of a player to this degree since Shearer and that's before I consider the saga and incompetence surrounding his sale, proven by our owners own words, when they found out about it all, I can't help but think we've been done up a kipper with Jones from whatever angle it transpired. Jones will become a future England captain and will most likely win most of the top awards football has to offer and most likely as club captain of United of all teams, Jack would be spinning in his grave at that thought, one of ours leading United to glory at a time when our owners have promised us exactly the same.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Excellent post Majiball.

I do remember this quote made by Fergie when Jones first caught his eye after the 7-1 loss and backs up your point about his leadership qualities.

"For me Jones stood out in that game," Ferguson said. "I particularly remember him when the fifth goal went in. Most of the Blackburn players were beginning to let their heads drop but he was running everywhere, giving them all stick for not trying hard enough. He was only 18 then, too. I was very impressed, and took a close interest from that point on."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/20/manchester-united-david-de-gea-ferguson

[philipl]

Superb post majiball.

When last season is the subject for historians and not litigation lawyers, the back story to Phil Jones departing is going to be one extremely sorry chapter.

[darwenblueswearehere]

An excellent description of Phil Jones the footballer Majiball.

[Sandiway Blue]

Whilst Jones may not have been a 1st choice in his position, he was most certainly a starter in our 1st eleven. Since his premier league debut against chelsea he hasn't looked back and how many 18 year olds man mark one of the best CF's in our league out of the game. I honestly can't remember such a debut by a kid and then he went on to maintain that level of form as well throughout the next season. It was no coincidence that our results improved when he was playing in our eleven and was a key reason we stayed up last season, despite being played out of position. There are not many 18-19 year olds playing to the level Jones was for us in this league, let alone the rest of the world and this for me is key. It was never just about Jones the player but Jones the man and this is the part I think most people miss.

Phil Jones from day one did something most 18-19 year olds brick themselves at doing, giving orders and talking on the pitch, but more importantly orders and instructions that had purpose (check out our results with him on the pitch last year). Jones is a leader, but also a cracking defender, just look at Smallings record with Fulham. Signed @ 18, debut at 19, around 13 apps total at Fulham 1 full season, Jones on the other hand? Made about 35 apps, debut a year earlier (Smalling didn't achieve anything like man marking Drogba off the pitch at Fulham) and spent most of his time out of position in midfield (far more demanding role than CB ever will be). Smalling played against Chelsea had a mare and scored the winning goal for chelsea, now I'm not saying that Jones is a better player both look remarkable prospects at present but there is a clear difference in the impression both have made on the game to date. Jones stands out for me as his teams results when he was playing were good especially against strong opposition and when you consider his talking on the pitch on top of his playing ability, then blow me you really have something. Most footballers just play, they don't give instructions or guidance on the pitch nor do they inspire and encourage at the same time constantly and this for me is the reason I feel we have under sold Jones.

20M may have been a good price for young Wayne Rooney way back in 2004 but it's 2011 now and the record transfer fee is 80M and 20-30M pound transfer fees are very common. Since those days we've seen serious cash enter football and even a CF with nothing like the level of performance Jones had displayed, nor the personality traits, selling for 30M. Jones signed his new deal with the 16.5M release clause during Venky's reign and at a time when when he had been playing well and had made his mark on the game. You also have to consider our issues with clauses in the past at this stage and ask who at that time was pulling the strings (transfer & contract wise) and their consequent motives. Because to this day I cannot get my head round that clause ever being there and being so low, given not 1 month earlier Carroll went for double at 30M. This is the day of arab oil barons and multi billionaire owners who will quite happily spunk 100M+ a window on fees alone. It's absolute madness and if I'm being 100% honest, it being so low indicates to me that selling was always the intent. When the deal was signed as given the number and financial clout of the teams being linked in January an auction of rich clubs always beckoned, but yet we set a limit on the sale in todays age of fee's. Especially when you consider how complete a player he really is, hopefully that's come across in the paragraphs above, but the one thing I haven't yet stated is that Jones is a captain and not only that the ideal one (does he not remind people of a calmer Roy Keane? Fergies been chasing that personality type in a player of strong ability for ages).

For starters his position CB allows him to see the whole pitch and appreciate it all, he also talks a lot and gives out strong instructions and encouragement to his team mates. When he plays everyone plays better as well, just check out our results when he played last season and Uniteds this. You see Jones is the ideal captain in the making, he doesn't just lead by example ala Stevie G but also through his voice ala JT and Adams. And that really is the type of player we are talking about, his ability and personality have always displayed that he will wear the armband and do it well akin to the names mentioned. What price a 20 year old Tony Adams or John Terry these days? 20-30M perhaps more with add-ons who knows, we never will anyway. He is a future England captain and it was obvious from what we had seen in his displays on our pitch that that was exactly where he had the ability to go and will. Just look at the start he's made at United, he's playing in any position, doing it well and United are playing some fantastic football at present, they've raised the bar this season to date. Jones hasn't needed a season to bed ala Smalling he's walked straight in to the 1st 11 and made the England squad, coincidence? Regardless of how you feel about that one, he's been on the pitch during some cracking displays this season, he's played a role and so contributed to it all. And here's the real rub for me.

I honestly don't think some of our fans realise what we had in Jones and only saw a kid with potential to be a good centre back, as opposed to what I see & saw a future England captain and JT's replacement eventually, not just as a CB but as a captain. Because of this I can see why people are happy with 16.5M, but I can never be as I posted at the time of his sale it's a bargain. Not only have we lost a future England CB but we've also lost the future captain and inspirer of this nation, for pennies, due to some silly clause inserted at a time when Venky's and SEM where in full swing. And that before you consider not 2 weeks earlier the man in charge of our transfers/contracts was sanctioning 1.6M agents fees for Rochina and a fee we'd wouldn't believe for Formica. I honestly feel where Jones is concerned we have shot ourselves in the foot, from his contract to not showing him or proving to him that champions league beckoned with Rovers whilst we had day to day contact with him.

I haven't mourned the loss of a player to this degree since Shearer and that's before I consider the saga and incompetence surrounding his sale, proven by our owners own words, when they found out about it all, I can't help but think we've been done up a kipper with Jones from whatever angle it transpired. Jones will become a future England captain and will most likely win most of the top awards football has to offer and most likely as club captain of United of all teams, Jack would be spinning in his grave at that thought, one of ours leading United to glory at a time when our owners have promised us exactly the same.

Excellent post!

My mate,a UTD fan,can`t believe just how good he is.He thinks Jones`s performance will tail off!

I told him not a chance this lad`s the real deal alright.

Gutted we couldn`t keep him for another 12 months,yet proud that Phil started out at Rovers.

[den]

Good post Maj. I wouldn't go so far as saying that United's results prove what a top player he is, but I agree with everything else you've said.

It's alright some people simply using facts [£16m for a 19 year old] to argue a case, but you have to look at the talent and potential. Jones doesn't have a weakness, or if he has, I can't see it. He's terrifically strong, powerful in the air, Likes to get the ball on the floor, quick, has enormous stamina, has a real presence on the pitch and as you say takes control. This is one player who doesn't need a full season to find his feet and has got - well, everything.

I'll say it again, in the market Man Utd operate in, this was a gift.

[daveoftherovers]

Good post Maj. I wouldn't go so far as saying that United's results prove what a top player he is, but I agree with everything else you've said.

It's alright some people simply using facts [£16m for a 19 year old] to argue a case, but you have to look at the talent and potential. Jones doesn't have a weakness, or if he has, I can't see it. He's terrifically strong, powerful in the air, Likes to get the ball on the floor, quick, has enormous stamina, has a real presence on the pitch and as you say takes control. This is one player who doesn't need a full season to find his feet and has got - well, everything.

I'll say it again, in the market Man Utd operate in, this was a gift.

Correct Den, to be honest, working in Manchester, I am so f***ed off with United fans telling me how great Phil Jones is, it's going violent soon I can asure you.

[Exiled_Rover]

Correct Den, to be honest, working in Manchester, I am so f***ed off with United fans telling me how great Phil Jones is, it's going violent soon I can asure you.

Why? This is what football has become. If one of the also rans has a good player the big boys will poach them. It's why my interest in football is almost dead - what's the point in trying to compete if you're cut off at the knees?