[Archived] Phil Jones

[martypellowe]

Really? Then you'd better email Capello and tell him that. The silly buggers been playing him in midfield against the World Champs this last week.

S'funny, if we'd sold him as a DM we'd have got an extra £10m

[Majiball]

1) A major flaw in your position is that Jones' previous contract also included a minimum fee release clause, so it was in the clubs interest to renegotiate his deal and try to remove that clause or at least increase it (reports suggest that we doubled it).

2) Minimum fee release clauses are fairly common, so we are far from the only club that use them. It will really only be used for players playing for smaller clubs as they want to ensure that they can't be prevented from moving to a bigger team, so it is no surprise to see that it is not as common with the big four.

3) Phil Jones is a DEFENDER. This is crucial in this argument. You can say what you like about how highly rated or 'in demand' he was, but the fact remains that midfielders and strikers go for more. It is the HIGHEST ever fee for a defender of his age, one of the highest ever fees for any defender and one of the highest ever fees for any teenager. Will he end up being worth more than that? Almost certainly, but that was true of Rooney and I think Everton got a good fee for him at the age and stage of his development at which they sold him.

1) Did it? You know this for fact? Given the amount of drivel we get from the club your 100% certain on that?

2) I used examples to show clubs like us don't do it, you have just said it's common, care to back that up?

3) Really you don't say, he's also a RB and a centre midfielder, can Rio do that? He's versatile and a true captain, you can call him just a defender all you want, he's more than that and his price should have reflected that, he's better than Rio was at the same age. Highest doesn't mean best and that's the issue, would there have been a bidding war who knows, but didn't Liverpool leak a cheeky 22M (they would have gone higher) story after United initially said no to 20M? Why are you saying he's a defender and that lowers the fee then using Rooney to say it's a good fee for a teenager? Isn't he a striker, so he must have been worth double PJ? Carroll was 2 years older and was worth more than Rooney went for?, don't make me laugh, Rooney was the best young talent around at the time, just like PJ. Rooney was sold in 2004 for 26M + 25% of future profits, world record was still 50M (zidane) so he went for 50% we got 20% of Ronaldo's 80M. Well done Venky's, good job.

4) Why do the staff at United describe him as a bargain? How many others have used this term for the transfer? A quick google search shows loads of reports stating those exact words 'phil jones bargain @ 16M'

5) Why did United just pay the extra 4M, given they always dig their heels in? Because they were happy too and still felt it was a good deal, what does that tell you? Either United are stupid or they knew exactly what they were getting and we didn't know what we had.

You'll never convince me we got a good price and given all that's gone on in the last year I cannot believe some think this is the one incident when they didn't (Please don't use that word again) up. We are run by morons who think the fans don't matter and that Kean is a brilliant manager and you support their actions? A 19 year old defender who's good enough to shackle Spains midfield in midfield, is only worth 16.5M cause he's a defender? How did Carroll do against spain? Transfer records are there to be broken and his price is relative, we screwed up big time and that's before you ask why did he want to go?

[philipl]

Given what was going on in the background Rovers did well to get £16m + £4m.

But the background shenanigins were 100% Rao failings and Rao caused.

Without those incompetent fools I am pretty certain we would

a) have had PJ for one more season at Ewood

b ) realised north of £30m when we sold this coming summer

[BuckyRover]

We will never sell a player for £30m let alone a defender.

[thenodrog]

cant really blame jones for joining man utd, probably once in a lifetime chance and for all he knew he could have gone backwards in his career and ending up playing at a lower level.

Very few would disagree with that, what is rankling is the way inexperienced and extremely naive new owners and imo acting on the wrong end of dodgy advice were simply brushed aside by one of the playground bullies. Jack Walker's long gone of course but he would not have let him go to that lot as cheaply as we did.

We will never sell a player for £30m let alone a defender.

"There's no way will I ayver spend 3 miwwion poonds on a streyka." A very bitter Alex Ferguson Summer92 through very clenched teeth.

[Majiball]

We will never sell a player for £30m let alone a defender.

Not likely now.

BBC and Deloitte confirm record fees spent yet again.

165M spent on english players from 485M, phil jones accounts for 3.4% (16.5) of said total. 66% of the total spend was from the big clubs, PJ = 5% of the big clubs who were interested in buying PJ's total spend. Another 10M is barely another 2% of their total spend, so why do people think just cause he's a CB (CM V spain = England win) he costs less and should judged on values almost a century old? jan spend total since 2003, less than 50M back then, now over 200M a 300% increase and we should be happy at 50% of a fee from back then? Teams back in 2002 never spent anything like 500 odd Million in a whole season let alone one window. Ever since the likes of Abramovich, Mansour spending has been sat steady at around the 600-700M a year mark, More than double what it was back in 2002.

In the day and age when to challenge for the league you need to be backed by a multi billionaire just to do so, why on earth do people not think we could have squeezed more for a fee.

Some people as I've stated before I don't believe realise what PJ is? name me a young ENGLISH complete CF? Midfielder? Defender? The last one I can honestly answer yes to, PJ. He has been playin 3 different positions for a team of United level, I'm not sure people on here know what that takes. It's akin to playing Samba up front and having him bang in 20 goals, also at this point I'd ask how Rio has gotten on when he HAS been played out of position in midfield? Badly I remember. Even Sam says he's the next England captain and he would already seem to be a key United player, you have to remember the likes of Oxlade-smith (hadn't even played in our league) cost a sum of 15M all-in, but he's a winger so it's worth it??? PJ was an established premier league player rated higher than Cahill et al (how much did little old bolton demand for him?) and only 19 odd years old. As has been shown through results when he played last season we generally got one with him on the pitch, he was the most important player we had period, all the clause did was tie the clubs hands by setting a limit in a day and age when a league one player costs 15M quid (why didn't southampton (little club) have a release clause for oxlade?, they're such a good idea). PJ hasn't miraculously gotten better in the 5 months he's been at United he was already pretty much playing to that level, but unfortunately just like Capello some couldn't see it.

30M buys an average English striker.

22M buys a Brazilian CB

15M buys a league one player

20M buys a 20 year old GK

And yet 16.5M gets you a future England captain who can play CB, RB & CM at the highest level against the best teams in the world (4 United N England) and our best and most valuable player since Shearer.

Marvellous.

[Rovers_786]

he become a better player since he left us, I hate to say, but is doing well for England.

[LeChuck]

30M buys an average English striker.

22M buys a Brazilian CB

15M buys a league one player

20M buys a 20 year old GK

And yet 16.5M gets you a future England captain who can play CB, RB & CM at the highest level against the best teams in the world (4 United N England) and our best and most valuable player since Shearer.

Marvellous.

I usually like your posts but that's just using extreme examples to try and make a point. "15M buys a league one player". £50k can also buy you a League One player. You have made no point at all using that statement.

Where do the likes of Javier Hernandez fit into this argument?

Also, Phil Jones had never played right back in senior football at the point Man Utd signed him. It was Ferguson who decided to play him there.

[Majiball]

I usually like your posts but that's just using extreme examples to try and make a point. "15M buys a league one player". £50k can also buy you a League One player. You have made no point at all using that statement.

Where do the likes of Javier Hernandez fit into this argument?

Also, Phil Jones had never played right back in senior football at the point Man Utd signed him. It was Ferguson who decided to play him there.

Said league one player was one of the most sought after kids in England and a league one club got 1.5M less than us for PJ. So an established Premier league player, English, Leader and so on, is worth 1.5M more than an 18 year completely unproven at the top level just because he's a forward? Luiz was used as Chelsea obviously wanted a CB and spent 22M, would they have gone higher for PJ? And De Gea was added in as the same club signing PJ were willing to pay 20M for the least demanding role on the pitch GK. And yet 16.5M for jones is a good deal because he's a defender???

Hopefully now you'll see JH doesn't really fit in.

Liverpool are desperate for a top CB and were willing to pay 30M for Carroll, Arsenal were rumoured to be putting together a bid for PJ to beat Uniteds 16.5. They also spent 15M on said league one player, they have money to spend. Chelsea went for Luiz in the end paying out 22M, again they'd have gone higher for PJ. United happily paid 3.5M above the legal required amount and were willing to part with 20M for a GK, more than PJ. We was robbed as a cheeky cockney would say.

PJ hasn't needed any bedding in time at RB and didn't at CM, so ergo he was just as capable of playing Rb when with us. In fact some are saying it's his best position already his crossing bloody good actually.

[LeChuck]

Well we'll agree about right back being his best position and leave it there.

[Amo]

Who cares if we could've got more for him?

Unless I'm mistaken, we hardly splashed the cash we received, did we?

[Majiball]

Who cares if we could've got more for him?

I care.

[G Somerset Rover]

I care.

It would all probably have gone into Jerome's pocket anyway, so there's little point in getting too worked up about it.

[philipl]

Ferguson describes Jones signing as a "steal" in the Sunday Mirror today.

[John]

Phil Jones was a bargain at 16.5 million says Sir Alex Ferguson

[thenodrog]

hat puts the tin hat of all tin hats on it! Thats that for this thread then. Job done.

Can we now expect a whole raft of retractions and apologies from our long list of know nowts who have continually insisted in the face of all but this latest evidence that 16m was plenty for Phil Jones?

We're waiting guys.

[den]

Still waiting........

[BuckyRover]

Yawn. Kean described Goodwillie as a bargain as well.

What do you expect him to say? We paid the going rate? (the most expensive teenage defender ever).

[John]

Kean Bucky, lol

Speak to most Dundee Utd fans and they think we paid more than we had to for Goodwillie.

[imy9]

I sometimes despair at our fans I really do.

So just because Theno SAF has said that Jones is a bargain then anyone who thinks that we got a fair price at 20.5 million plus a sell on is a no nowt?

SAF also said to journos that they were f****** idiots and that he is a f****** great player when he was questioned about the 28 million he spent on Veron. Lol!

Highest fee ever for a teenage defender. We miss him in our squad but he chose to leave, good luck in the future, is there really more to say?

[Exiled_Rover]

Ferguson describes Jones signing as a "steal" in the Sunday Mirror today.

At least Ferguson isn't completely deluded then. Welcome to the PL lads - the small fish will always get screwed over by the big boys when it comes to transfers. He knows that.

[BuckyRover]

Kean Bucky, lol

Speak to most Dundee Utd fans and they think we paid more than we had to for Goodwillie.

Didn't Kenny describe Andy Carroll as a bargain?

Ok then

[Amo]

hat puts the tin hat of all tin hats on it! Thats that for this thread then. Job done.

Can we now expect a whole raft of retractions and apologies from our long list of know nowts who have continually insisted in the face of all but this latest evidence that 16m was plenty for Phil Jones?

We're waiting guys.

Still not sure why people like you, Den & Maji give a damn.

Would you be happy if we got £25m?

What difference would it make?

[jim mk2]

What difference would it make?

About £9m, and the feeling we haven't been screwed by Sir Alex Ferguson ?

It is right to say the extra £9m wouldn't have made any difference to our transfer budget - it would gone straight in the Pune Building Society extra interest savings account.

[John]

Any extra money we received would have helped buy this marquee singing we keep hearing about.