[Archived] West Ham United (away - 7th May)

[tony gale's mic]

Totally agree - why give a 5 year deal to a player that was at least a foot too short for Sam's style of play.

Funny thing is with the Rooney argument - does that make us daft to offer Jones a 5 year deal after only a handful of first team matches or Everton daft for not offering Rooney a longer deal ?

Ah yes, the same height as Jay Jay Okocha. You do talk so much rubbish don't you?

Jones rose faster than most young players do. Even the likes of Rodwell were eased into the team much quicker than Phil Jones was. Jones made his debut against Chelsea and started the next six games. Five year deals are usually given once a team becomes a regular starter which Jones became. Rooney's deal was shorter but maybe that's because he was 17, although a five year deal at 17 would've been within the rules.

Either way, Hoilett wasn't a regular starter and so not giving him a five year contract then was standard practice.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Remind how tall Stelios and Djorkaeff are? That particular argument is very silly.

Well Everton got 30million quid out of it so they didn't play it badly did they. When we offered Jones that contract he had already broken into the England U21's and was considered the next John Terry, very obvious how good he was. It is rather like offering Hoillett a 5 year deal now after he has proved himself. But lets not distract the boy

Djorkaeff - 5ft 11in

Jay Jay - 5ft 10in

Stelios - 5ft 9in

Hoilett - 5ft 8in

Jimmy - do you know what has been said between Hoilett, his agent and Kean ? There are any number of reasons why he hasn't signed - it could be that both Hoilett and the club don't want any distractions - as reported. Or it could be any range of reasons - that perhaps the club wouldn't want airing in public at the moment. Ince struggled to keep unrest in the camp out of the media - with an inexperienced manager and fighting a relegation battle I have been surprised how (on the whole) the club has provided a united front to the media.

[Exiled in Toronto]

That assumes so many things though. It makes a massive assumption that Hoilett's representatives are tricky to deal with (why would they be in a player who wants to stay?), it assumes Kean has first hand experience from the last negotiations (unlikely since he wasnt manager or assistant then), and it also assumes he'd be right to think that it'd affect Hoilett's form (why would it? Last time he signed a new contract though he'd shown promise he wasnt playing all that well before the negotiations either).

You can keep making assumptions like that if you like, but based on the confirmed facts, Kean is the reason we're not offering him a new contract and that could come back to bite us severely this summer. If we got relegated it'd be particularly costly, but if a big club come calling then unsurprisingly his head will be turned, and we'd be selling him off for a cut price fee due to being out of contract next year.

The Canadian team management have been quoted here several times saying that Hoilett and his dad are indeed very difficult to deal with - no assumptions there

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Ah yes, the same height as Jay Jay Okocha. You do talk so much rubbish don't you?

lol

[Jimmy612]

Djorkaeff - 5ft 11in

Jay Jay - 5ft 10in

Stelios - 5ft 9in

Hoilett - 5ft 8in

Jimmy - do you know what has been said between Hoilett, his agent and Kean ? There are any number of reasons why he hasn't signed - it could be that both Hoilett and the club don't want any distractions - as reported. Or it could be any range of reasons - that perhaps the club wouldn't want airing in public at the moment. Ince struggled to keep unrest in the camp out of the media - with an inexperienced manager and fighting a relegation battle I have been surprised how (on the whole) the club has provided a united front to the media.

Well that 1,2 and 3 inches must have been the difference between a player fit for an Allardyce team and one who is not then

We'l never know what went on either when Hoillett signed a new contract under Allardyce or when he hasn't done under Kean (such is the life of a football fan)

Its not too bad keeping a united front to the media when Jerome Anderson is in the background pulling the strings, he's certainly a clever bloke, unfortunately the same can't be said about our new owners

[Brfcrule1]

Mercerman do you have some sort of inside knowledge about who the ref will be on Saturday as you said Walton will have to keep his nerve please don't tell me P.Walton is the ref for saturday please tell me you are just guessing at that as that guy issues cards like they are dolly mixtures minimum is 3 cards per game maybe if he is the ref we could get Jermaine Jones to pick his pockets & hide his cards like when he started issuing invisible yellow cards before

[Majiball]

Hellllllllllllllllllllllo?

Sorry, I thought this was the West Ham match thread ... Could someone tell me where I might find it, please?

[Steve Moss]

Any word on whether Hoilett is fit? If he and Olsson are both available, we'll be a very dangerous squad.

[Mercer]

Mercerman do you have some sort of inside knowledge about who the ref will be on Saturday as you said Walton will have to keep his nerve please don't tell me P.Walton is the ref for saturday please tell me you are just guessing at that as that guy issues cards like they are dolly mixtures minimum is 3 cards per game maybe if he is the ref we could get Jermaine Jones to pick his pockets & hide his cards like when he started issuing invisible yellow cards before

It's defo Walton & Marriner is 4th official. Can hear already the screams of derision.

[24right]

All ref appointments can viewed at www.refworld.com. It's Walton for us...

[Jimmy612]

It's defo Walton & Marriner is 4th official

ffs

[yeti-dog]

Ah this coming from one of the usual anti-Allardyce drones on here. All you're doing is showing how little you know.

Name me ONE youth player who hasn't yet established themselves at a Premier League club who signed a FIVE YEAR deal.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/sport/newsid_2670000/2670561.stm Look here - Even Wayne Rooney had been starring in the Everton first team (far more justifying a five year deal) and got a...wait for it...two and a half year contract.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/may/24/jack-rodwell-five-year-deal-everton Jack Rodwell only got his deal after a full season in which he played 36 games. He'd been far more highly rated and played in 25 games the season before, but no one thought to sign him upto a five year deal?

Martin Olsson only got his five year contract last summer. Phil Jones got it earlier because he became a key player almost as soon as he played his first league game.

What Sam did was standard practice when offering young players contracts. I've proved as much and I doubt you can prove otherwise.

What Kean is doing - ie delaying Hoilett's contract talks till the summer and delaying contract talks until the final write off 12 month period - is far from standard practice.

I think you're confusing me with someone else..I was never particularly anti-Allardyce although would have had no problem with him being removed this summer.

You can throw out all the examples you like to try and batter me into submission,which I know is your usual modus operandi but the fact remains we need to nurture and value the odd bit of genuine talent we see coming through. Didn't we fight hard to get a visa for him under the understanding he was an exceptional talent,if this was the case why only a 2.5 year contract? Seems illogical to me and I feel it's a valid point to suggest Sam was maybe hedging his bets as he wasn't your 'typical' Sam player.

Here's your cue to write 500 words undermining my beliefs and showing us all how clever you are....

[BuckyRover]

I think you're confusing me with someone else..I was never particularly anti-Allardyce although would have had no problem with him being removed this summer.

You can throw out all the examples you like to try and batter me into submission,which I know is your usual modus operandi but the fact remains we need to nurture and value the odd bit of genuine talent we see coming through. Didn't we fight hard to get a visa for him under the understanding he was an exceptional talent,if this was the case why only a 2.5 year contract? Seems illogical to me and I feel it's a valid point to suggest Sam was maybe hedging his bets as he wasn't your 'typical' Sam player.

Here's your cue to write 500 words undermining my beliefs and showing us all how clever you are....

Great stuff. You have provided an opinion without claiming this opinion is a fact by making spurious assumptions.

Take note TGM. Never assume. It will bite you on the ass one day, you wouldn't want to find yourself in front of the GMC.

[BuckyRover]

Although I will say that I don't believe that Sam didn't want him to sign. I believe that Hoilett is the one that didn't want to sign. It appears to me that he has big ideas. (based on previous contract negotiations).

I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up somewhere like Liverpool, as Miseryman said.

However ,I don't believe that's Steve Kean's doing. I think it has been coming for a while.

[Jimmy612]

Great stuff. You have provided an opinion without claiming this opinion is a fact by making spurious assumptions.

Take note TGM. Never assume. It will bite you on the ass one day, you wouldn't want to find yourself in front of the GMC.

An exceptional talent is a far cry from 'Premier League footballer' though. As I mentioned last night, many many players will be considered exceptional talents but never make it in the the PL

A 2.5 year contract is a good amount for a 19 year old with a lot to prove. I can't see how you can argue that one? You make it sound like he was given a six month trial.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I thought at the time it seemed like a 'wait and see what happens' contract on Junior's part. And who could blame him - sensible really since he hadn't broken into the team at that point. He and his dad are not short of confidence on how good he is and how far he could get, which is why he refuses to commit to the poor Canadian team but never definitively says 'no'.

[mickygray316]

Anyone know of any away pubs before the game on sat?

[K-Hod]

Mercerman do you have some sort of inside knowledge about who the ref will be on Saturday as you said Walton will have to keep his nerve please don't tell me P.Walton is the ref for saturday please tell me you are just guessing at that as that guy issues cards like they are dolly mixtures minimum is 3 cards per game maybe if he is the ref we could get Jermaine Jones to pick his pockets & hide his cards like when he started issuing invisible yellow cards before

Mate, I'm no grammar nazi, but you really need to start using commas and full stops- I'm getting out of breath reading all that!!

[A cup of beans]

Anyone know of any away pubs before the game on sat?

the blind beggar ??

[Gav]

the blind beggar ??

You may laugh, but the London branch used to meet there in the 90's if memory serves me right, great pub, lots of history.

[A cup of beans]

You may laugh, but the London branch used to meet there in the 90's if memory serves me right, great pub, lots of history.

been in there many times

do they still sell commemerative coins of the krays ?

they used to.

[gbax]

Good news - 2-1 to WHU from Lawro!

[blue_and_white]

Great stuff. You have provided an opinion without claiming this opinion is a fact by making spurious assumptions.

Take note TGM. Never assume. It will bite you on the ass one day, you wouldn't want to find yourself in front of the GMC.

Ah right, so the age old logical way of debating by using factual examples to support your opinion isn't correct is it not? TGM's post was about as solid an argument as you can get in defence of Allardyce. And the response? "Uhhh no, he didn't give him a 2.5 year one because everyone does that, he gave it him cause he was small." Words fail me on how pathetic a counter-argument that is, but according to you its great stuff

[rog of the rovers]

Read in the LET that Parker had broken down in training.

Good news for us if so, can't seem to find any links though!

[alexanders]

I know its tribal