Cycling

[T J Hooker]

Your class struggle continues eh Paul? However whilst some drivers of those marques can display a certain arrogance the worst drivers on the road imo tend to drive small cars.

With either young inexperienced cocky drivers or old people that dont realise that theyre no longer fit to drive behind the wheel.

Edited June 19, 2015 by T J Batty Man

[Paul]

Your class struggle continues eh Paul? However whilst some drivers of those marques can display a certain arrogance the worst drivers on the road imo tend to drive small cars.

Nope it's simply that drivers using these types of vehicles often stand out as idiotic drivers. It certainly not the case, as I've already stated, all drivers of these marques are idiots.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Paul

[Paul]

I can only presume by the visitors to this thread, shootings in America not withstanding, it's been a relatively slow news for the last 48 hours

Like buses really

[yoda]

Nope it's simply that drivers using these types of vehicles often stand out as idiotic drivers. It certainly not the case, as I've already stated, all drivers of these marques are idiots.

Have you missed a word out in that bit.

I can only presume by the visitors to this thread, shootings in America not withstanding, it's been a relatively slow news for the last 48 hours

Like buses really

Well I visited the thread because I gave a bit of input into some routes in the area, which on a good day are up there with the best in the world for scenery, seems like other posts have confirmed that as well.

being a mod you should know better than to take it off topic

Edited June 19, 2015 by yoda

[Al]

I tend to agree with Paul. Whilst cyclists appear to have an attitude in common with Paul's personification of 4x4 drivers I do believe that the vulnerability of cycling does make one more aware of situations which may arise on the road. Even more so for 'bikers. I've cycled as a kid and had a couple of motor bikes before I could afford a car and I firmly believe that everybody should spend a year on a motorbike before they are allowed to take a test.

btw just as an aside ..... are cycles and motor cycles banned in the Q'uran?

And I firmly believe that everyone should have to take a test before they are allowed on the road especially cyclists, and I have never seen a car driver plough into the traffic on a red light and give v signs to the legitimate drivers. There is nothing ludicrous about my contention that the cyclists are more inclined to bad behaviour on the roads than motorists but thankfully there are less of them.

[JC4LAB]

I cycle to Ewood each match and in city centres a lot.. .Its abouts 2o minutes by bike but by car + parking up and walking = One hour.so Im up on the deal ..The secret is riding defensively..and with high visiblity gear using bike lanes if theres any ...Reality is in a car V bike in a collsion there is only oine winner despite the right and wrong. who is to blame .A nervous cyclist is a safe one..relax and thats when we are likely to get.in trouble .........Motoiists rage against other motorists so the rage thing is there anyway so if it aint a cyclist they want to have a fume at, it will be someone else...prob the next car that cuts them up...or does nt give you a thank you wave if you let them in...

Always said if we ever get to Wembley I would cycle it there, ,I would need 2 nights stop over to do the 220 miles

and Heres a cyclist to rage at.

http://www.itv.com/news/london/2015-06-17/arnold-schwarzenegger-nearly-run-over-in-london-while-recording-video-on-snapchat/

Edited June 19, 2015 by JC4LAB

[thenodrog]

Nope it's simply that drivers using these types of vehicles often stand out as idiotic drivers. It certainly not the case, as I've already stated, all drivers of these marques are idiots.

Accepted like not all cyclists are law breaking knobheads whose obvious aim is to aggravate other road users and get off by dressing up in over tight lycra. Just a tiny majority.

Edited June 19, 2015 by thenodrog

[Paul]

Have you missed a word out in that bit.

No. I think you missed a word out when reading. I said "it certainly NOT the case" though I agree there should be an "is" in there.

Well I visited the thread because I gave a bit of input into some routes in the area, which on a good day are up there with the best in the world for scenery, seems like other posts have confirmed that as well.

being a mod you should know better than to take it off topic

I know you did.

I'm not a mod and have nothing to do with the running of the board. As for going off topic I'm simply responding to Al's categorising all cyclists in the same bracket which is clearly inaccurate. I've pointed out the same is true of car drivers, especially those who often drive certain makes, explaining this doesn't lead me to the opinion all drivers are idiots.

[yoda]

No. I think you missed a word out when reading. I said "it certainly NOT the case" though I agree there should be an "is" in there.

I know you did.

I'm not a mod and have nothing to do with the running of the board. As for going off topic I'm simply responding to Al's categorising all cyclists in the same bracket which is clearly inaccurate. I've pointed out the same is true of car drivers, especially those who often drive certain makes, explaining this doesn't lead me to the opinion all drivers are idiots.

In my experience it is the drivers of Audi's that are the worse, closely followed by Volvo drivers. The worst cyclists are the ones that wear the t shirts with patronising messages on them about being visible.

[blueboy3333]

A bit of advise please. I'm thinking of getting a new bike and was wondering what you serious cyclists ride. I've got a bit of a knackered back so after doing a bit of research it seems a 'sportive' or hybrid is the answer as they offer a more upright position, I currently ride a trek hybrid and it's a decent bike but i wonder if a proper road bike would be a wise investment given i'm starting to do a few more 40mile plus rides.

So do you find a road bike puts a lot of pressure on your lower back over long-distance rides? I've read a lot of good reviews on the Cannondale Synapse range which seem to be more towards the 'sportive' range of bikes,

Out of interest what bikes do you chapst ride and which would you recommend?

[Audax]

Good questions, since I ride mainly "beater bikes", I'll wait for the others to answer.

[Paul]

I know nothing about bad backs so can't comment on this aspect other than to say cycling is a low impact activity. I know many people who have moved from other sports, often running, to cycling after injury which prevents them from taking part in the other sport.

Given cycling is low impact one shouldn't feel any discomfort other than the tiredness which comes from riding. The correct bike set up, frame geometry and suitable frame size will make a huge difference to comfort and performance. Geometry basically tells you which frame size fits and determines the riding position. The two important dimensions are the seat tube length, can one reach the pedals, and top tube length, how stretched will you be (possibly important for bad backs??) The head tube and handle bar stem also impact the riding position.

The importance of the above is simple. Once you know the frame size and effective top tube length (the length between seat post and the head tube drawn horizontally) you can easily compare bikes from different ranges and makers without worrying about basic fit.

With a bad back it could be worthwhile having a professional bike fit. This will cost £50 and upwards depending on where you go. The difference a few millimetres make is significant. Paul Hewitt (Leyland) and Colin Gardner (Kirkham) both have good reputations.

Road bike, "sportive" or hybrid? I rode a hybrid for many years and could comfortably cover 80-90 miles a day. I rode Marins then. I guess hybrids have improved significantly in the 15+ years since I rode one. The significant difference between a hybrid or city bike is performance - you will go faster on any form of road bike by at least 3mph. You will sacrifice some comfort, less upright riding position and the flexibility to switch between tarmac and trails.

A true road bike is designed to maximise performance. Unless one is going to race, time trial etc. or have a burning desire to keep up with the young bucks I don't see this as a consideration.

A "sportive" is a bike which takes elements from true road bikes and "audax" bikes (audax bikes are designed for comfort over VERY serious distances). The sportive design gives excellent performance, more upright position and dampens road shock. For most who want to go further and faster it is the answer.

I have been lusting after a Canondale Synapse 105/5 for months. A superb bike which gets great reviews. I think but don't know there is quite a wide price range. If Canondale is too expensive have a look at Dolan. I have a Dolan Duo which is six years old and still love it to bits.

Most manufacturers offer compact or double chain sets as standard. The argument being with 10 and 11 speed cassettes (20-22 gears) why bother with a triple chain set? The point is that on a triple the gear ratios are so close there is little improvement over the 20-22 you get with a double.

I get the point but this can mean the lowest gear on a double may not be low enough if you ride in a hilly area. To solve this ask for a rear cassette in the range of 11/12 to 30/32. This gives a huge largest rear cog and close to a lowest gear ratio of 1:1. I found the difference a great help. If you're young it probably won't make a lot of difference, it does for the more mature rider!

My only other comments are to make sure you buy a bike which will take a full mudguard set, NOT race blades, if you think you might want to fit a rack and panniers look for the necessary holes and finally if you go for a sportive look for one with the width to accommodate up to 28mm tyres (the Synapse does).

Edited June 29, 2015 by Paul

[blueboy3333]

Thanks for the reply Paul. The bad back thing is the fact that i'd be more bent over on a drop handlebar and that puts pressure on the lower back, especially over long distances. It's how I 1st did my back about 20 years ago but that was only a beat up old bike and i was playing a lot of other sports then so it was probably just a combination of things. A bike fitting would probably be well worth it if i go down that route. Checked out the Cannondale Synapse Ultegra today in Evans today...a thing of beauty, but a £2.5k thing of beauty!!

[Audax]

Thanks for the reply Paul. The bad back thing is the fact that i'd be more bent over on a drop handlebar and that puts pressure on the lower back, especially over long distances. It's how I 1st did my back about 20 years ago but that was only a beat up old bike and i was playing a lot of other sports then so it was probably just a combination of things. A bike fitting would probably be well worth it if i go down that route. Checked out the Cannondale Synapse Ultegra today in Evans today...a thing of beauty, but a £2.5k thing of beauty!!

Okay, I ride a Hybrid bike generally but also use a road bike.

Now, if you haven't gone to the bike store yet,

Back problem is a common problem with road bikes.

There really is something about how your weight is distributed on a bike and where your seat/saddle is positioned at, high or low.

I think you want more lean on top of the handlebars as that takes more weight off your back.

Some people with certain back conditions often feel more comfortable in the forward-leaning position of sitting on a bicycle seat and leaning forward on the handlebars. Lumbar spinal stenosis is an example of a condition in which most people feel better in a forward leaning position.

• Back posture on the bicycle can strain the lower back, a result of the lumbar spine flexing or pulling up)
• Position on the bicycles, with the neck arching back, can strain the neck and upper back, especially when the bicycle is equipped with aerodynamic bars

http://www.spine-health.com/conditions/sports-and-spine-injuries/bicycling-and-back-pain

Bicycle Lab:

Nearly all cyclists have problems with their body/saddle connection at some point.

http://bicyclelab.com/bicycle-saddle-pain-and-discomfort/

(Video)

Notice how the gentleman's seat is higher so more of the weight is distributed leaning towards the handlebars. This is exactly what you are talking about.

I do think with some bikes, hybrids that are upright like the old 3-speed bikes, the back pain problem is more rare.

Also found this, since I started stretching, so many pains I use to have, have seemed to have gone away. Stretching like this or even Yoga:

Edited June 30, 2015 by Audax

[Paul]

Thanks for the reply Paul. The bad back thing is the fact that i'd be more bent over on a drop handlebar and that puts pressure on the lower back, especially over long distances. It's how I 1st did my back about 20 years ago but that was only a beat up old bike and i was playing a lot of other sports then so it was probably just a combination of things. A bike fitting would probably be well worth it if i go down that route. Checked out the Cannondale Synapse Ultegra today in Evans today...a thing of beauty, but a £2.5k thing of beauty!!

It does sound as though s bike fitting would benefit you. I fully agree with Audax on position though I would look for a balance between taking the weight on the arms and seat. My preference is to take weight through the seat as pressure on my arms makes them and my neck ache over distance.

Re the Synapse Ultegra don't forget you are looking at the absolute top end of an outstanding bike range. Until you are sure of your back I would go for a much lower priced bike. Dolan can easily drop below £1000, Boardmans from Halfords and don't forget in the autumn prices of this year's models will drop significantly when the 2016 ranges appear.

If you happen to need a quite small or large frame the discounts are even better as suppliers look to clear stock.

[Al]

Thanks for the reply Paul. The bad back thing is the fact that i'd be more bent over on a drop handlebar and that puts pressure on the lower back, especially over long distances. It's how I 1st did my back about 20 years ago but that was only a beat up old bike and i was playing a lot of other sports then so it was probably just a combination of things. A bike fitting would probably be well worth it if i go down that route. Checked out the Cannondale Synapse Ultegra today in Evans today...a thing of beauty, but a £2.5k thing of beauty!!

I know I don't cycle myself but can I just mention something that a Chiropractor told be about back pain? He said that bending forward actually tends to relieve lower back pain as it separates the vertebrae and relieves stress. It's bending the back backwards that causes compression and pain. Just a thought for what it is worth.

[only2garners]

I'd second the suggestion to get a proper bike fitting for anyone but particularly if you have an issue with your back. I had a fitting by Paul Hewitt in Leyland. He charges £50 (or he did a few years ago), but it's free if you go on to buy a bike from him.

I have two bikes, a Cheviot tourer from Paul and a Cannonade Synapse Tiagra road bike from Broadgate Cycles in Preston. The Cannondale was about £950 in April 2014. I see the new Tiagra has disc brakes - mine doesn't. There are a couple of models in the range cheaper than that. I've found it very comfortable at rides up to almost 100 miles.

On where to buy, it depends a bit on how you bike maintenance skills are. Mine are beyond useless so I make sure I buy from a local bike shop that will look after you. You will be able to buy bikes cheaper from the internet and bike warehouses buy you might find it difficult to get a local bike shop to help you with servicing etc. That's not a problem if you're confident enough to do it yourself.

Overall I'd recommend a local bike shop. The 2 I've mentioned are good and I think Paul recommends Ewood Bikes. Of the big multiples Evans are decent - they now have a shop in Preston. Decathlon's own brand bikes have a strong reputation for value but the nearest shop to round here is in Bolton. Don't go anywhere near Halfords.

[wolfie]

I went here for my bike fit, he really knows his stuff and the fit was only £38. Spoke to a few other people who have used him and they all seemed very satisfied.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bikemagician.com%2F&ei=KLaSVZWpCKqu7gax55vwBw&usg=AFQjCNEqdw2Zdf_X7HHje0V631rhJdVauw&bvm=bv.96783405,d.ZGU&cad=rja

Did you get a diagnosis on your lower back problems? A lot of problems can bet sorted by a chiropractor just by getting the pelvis into its correct position.

[thenodrog]

'handlebars'? You can't beat these for comfortable touring....

[T J Hooker]

Just as another option for you I recommend Gregson Henry cycles in accy for repairs, servicing and buying good quality refurbished 2nd hand bikes, low prices but excellent advice, customer service and quality and a really down to earth shop.

Edited June 30, 2015 by T J Hooker

[Audax]

For the sake of comparison, rowing machines seem to pose a back problem for many as well:

I think Al made a good comment, it never struck me about the compression of the spine but it makes sense.

Good form as always. So, they say, I would need a professional to help me out with those machines, I can't quite get it right, 20 minutes on the machine can make my back feel bad the next day.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Audax

[blueboy3333]

Thanks for all your replies, genuinly appreciated. Gonna defo get a bike fitting, probably at Hewitts as it's closest to me. Probably wait till this years bikes get reduced and get a new one.Cannondale Synapse is looking fave (hopefully they won't sell out) and then it's off to see Lance Armstrong's dealer so i can get up t'hills in t'Trough

Great links Audax, cheers.

[blueboy3333]

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jul/01/sabotage-and-hatred-what-have-people-got-against-cyclists

tacks on roads and wire at neck height, some people really are just scum.

http://www.derbyshire.police.uk/Safety-advice/Road-Safety/Cyclists.aspx

know your rights fellow cyclists. i didn't know half of this stuff.

[Audax]

Blueboy3333, thanks for telling us this.

Neck high wire, wow, there is an old tale that that was done to motorcyclists decades ago and that is how "Ape Bars" came to be. I'm pretty cautious, overly so. Haven't run into much real trouble.

So-called Ape Bars according to lore, were made to combat high wire. I don't know what the deal is about the funny looking gas tank here.

People texting and talking on the phone I am convinced is probably the biggest danger out there imho, that does not minimise the other dangers though.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Audax

[Paul]

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jul/01/sabotage-and-hatred-what-have-people-got-against-cyclists

tacks on roads and wire at neck height, some people really are just scum.

http://www.derbyshire.police.uk/Safety-advice/Road-Safety/Cyclists.aspx

know your rights fellow cyclists. i didn't know half of this stuff.

I only knew a little of the Guardian article but have emphasised everything Derbyshire police say here and elsewhere in the past. Some or all of the Derbyshire police advice will be known to the majority of experienced cyclists but I do feel it is always worth re posting as its fundamental to one's safety.

The key point for me is s cyclist should assert (through correct positioning, not in an aggressive manner) the right to use the road and always ride at least 1.0 metre or more from potential obstructions including the kerb.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Paul