Wrestling Entertainment - we know, you don't have to tell us!

[DE.]

I thought the documentary was a good general overview for casual fans, albeit there was nothing new there if you've been following the business regularly. It did a good job of chronicling all the key events, although it was very much the WWE-version of history which isn't the entire truth.

Vince largely came across as an unlikable, arrogant sociopath who is either very comfortable with lying or outright delusional. One imagines if the scandals hadn't come out, the documentary would have been very different. Probably the weirdest part to me was Vince contending that Undertaker never had a concussion during the Lesnar match and was just "traumatized" by the streak being ended. Vince went to the hospital with him ffs, he knows full well that Taker had a concussion. I have no idea what he gets out of pretending otherwise, especially when Calloway has been his most loyal soldier for decades.

I think for more hardcore fans the hype wasn't justified, but maybe for casuals it was. Netflix being the imminent home of WWE obviously meant the documentary was never going to go too deep, but it certainly went harder than it would have when it was originally scheduled to be released pre-pandemic.

Most of the talking heads were pretty pointless and had little to add. Hogan was his usual bullshitting self. Pritchard knows where his bread is buttered and behaved accordingly. The past and present wrestlers were largely reduced to vanilla soundbites.

I'd say Shane came out of the series looking the best - he was portrayed in a really sympathetic manner. Heyman was as always very captivating when on camera. Tony Atlas was the most honest and transparent, to the point of absolute bluntness. I can only imagine what was left on the cutting room floor from his interviews. Meltzer came across well - balanced and knowledgeable.

Edited October 1 by DE.

[Mike E]

I was slightly baffled by Stone Cold’s insistence that CTE doesn’t exist. But when he qualified it with ‘if you’re getting concussions you’re not wrestling properly or safely’, I sort of understand why he’d say it.

Basically avoid CTE by avoiding head trauma.

As an FYI, I’ve gone completely off Hogan. But have to say my favourite pop when I was 12 was when Hogan came back as Mr America. That pop with the original music was amazing.

Edited October 1 by Mike E

[DE.]

I mean, yeah, in an ideal world you wrestle safe without getting head trauma - but I don't believe for a second that Austin didn't have at least half a dozen concussions in his career, if not more. Sometimes it's nothing you do - if you get put in there with someone green, mistakes can happen. Look at Bret Hart. One of the safest workers of all time, but one kick to the head from Goldberg and that was his career ruined.

It was weird because the way Austin phrased it was like CTE doesn't exist, when it clearly does. Maybe it was just bad wording on his part.

[chaddyrovers]

15 hours ago, DE. said:

I thought the documentary was a good general overview for casual fans, albeit there was nothing new there if you've been following the business regularly

I haven't properly follow WWE for many of years. as a Child I was hook on it and I remember playing the WWF Computer game or the action figures like Hulk Hogan and The Ultimate Warrior. 

I stop watching just after Wrestlemania 9 then starting watching back in December 1999 for a few years before stop wacthing around 2006. Since then I haven't followed it since. I have no idea who the wrestlers are now in WWE or who runs it. 

I watched the first 2 episodes of the Mr McMahon's documentary 

[DE.]

I'm not really a fan of the current product, across all the American companies, but I keep up on the backstage stuff and general news. I started with watching WCW in 1996, then WCW and WWE from 1998 to 2001. 

Once WCW folded in 2001 I pretty much stopped watching regularly. Started watching again in 2005 because some work colleagues were really into it, ordered all the PPVs, etc... so it was mainly a social thing. I stopped watching WWE again around... 2007 I guess? I'd started watching TNA though and more or less followed that weekly until 2013. Used to catch it on Challenge, if memory serves. 

Had another break, then got back into WWE via the post-draft Smackdown in 2016. That was a fantastic show for 6-7 months. 

I watched WWE somewhat begrudgingly during 2018 and 2019, although typically just in the background whilst I was doing other things. AEW came along and I really enjoyed their product for a couple of years. Lost interest rapidly after they plastered ROH all over their shows, and CM Punk has his initial falling out with the Bucks. I still catch some AEW PPVs by haven't watched any of their TV in nearly 2 years now. 

Haven't watched WWE TV regularly for years now either. Occasionally catch one of the big PPVs but that's about it. 

So yeah, I've been an on and off viewer over the years, and even when not watching tend to keep up on the backstage stuff via Reddit and the Observer. I'm currently very much in an off period, although I could still watch classic shows and enjoy them.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

I could still watch classic shows and enjoy them.

I could watch Wrestlemania 5,6,8 and 9 anytime and still enjoyed. 

Could I enjoy the current WWE now? Deffo not. Not the same as when I was growing up

[DE.]

The product has definitely undergone a radical change since the late 80s and early 90s. Back then it was a combination of spectacle and star-power. Larger-than-life characters playing out fairly straightforward storylines rooted in classic archetypes and, indeed, stereotypes.

Nowadays the spectacle remains - in fact it's even larger on a regular basis than ever - but there is much more emphasis placed on work rate in both of the biggest US companies - WWE & AEW. You can't really get away with just being a gimmick anymore, you've gotta be very solid on fundamentals as well. WWE is pretty good with storylines these days, AEW less so, but ultimately not too much has changed in that regard. The main difference is that both companies lean far more into the adult demographic these days, which was a shift that begun in earnest during the Monday Night Wars era of the mid-to-late 90s.

WWE moved back into a more kid-friendly direction from 2007, whilst AEW has always been aimed more towards adults. Nowadays WWE tries to combine both an adult-orientated and kid-friendly product, and I'd say does so more successfully than in any other period in wrestling history. I may not have much interest in the product these days, but from an objective standpoint I have to give WWE and Triple H props for delivering a show that can appeal to a very wide audience range without upsetting anyone.

Probably the biggest difference between the older days and now is simply the sheer amount of content that's churned out by companies, particularly in the US. WWE has a huge amount of programming available, and so does AEW. It's arguably a bit overwhelming if you're coming in as a more casual fan. Back in the day WWE had 1 hour of Raw and then four PPVs each year. Everything else was untelevised house shows or syndicated programming, most of which was squash matches or recaps. In modern times you've got 3 hours of Raw, 2 hours of Smackdown (soon to be 3 hours as well, reportedly) plus a PPV (or PLE as they are now called) every month - which regularly go for 4 hours and Summerslam is now a two night event alongside WrestleMania. It's a lot to handle if you're coming in cold.

The Bloodline storyline WWE produced was admittedly one of the best angles ever produced, albeit imo dragged out a bit too long with too many false finishes. It didn't pull me back in to watching full shows, but I did watch all of those segments up until the WM where Roman beat Cody, at which point I tuned out. I tuned back into the Bloodline segments for this year's WM, but again, not the full shows, and stopped watching afterwards entirely.

I still catch the big AEW PPVs and generally enjoy them, but they never make me want to watch the TV product.

[chaddyrovers]

finished watching the Mr McMahon Netflix series. It was great watched and plenty of things I didn't know about. I didn't know about the Mr McMahon's charges 

[Mike E]

I think the charges from last year and Jan this year ultimately changed how the documentary had to end.

I feel like a Netflix deep-dive or revisit needs to happen as a second series, really highlighting what an awful human being (like proper creepy monster) McMahon really is.

Writing storylines for TV specifically to cop off with female talent has Harvey Weinstein vibes for me. It’s my personal opinion that something akin to that (her refusal to go along with it, and her career subsequently shelved by McMahon) lies behind Ashley Massaro’s suicide.

Edited October 8 by Mike E

[DE.]

I would be shocked if Netflix does any kind of follow up. Considering they are now in a deep partnership with WWE, they'll be aware that any further digging into the worst aspects of McMahon and WWE could damage the brand as a whole. This documentary was designed to bring casual fans up to speed on WWE history, whilst painting Vince as a piece of shit - and emphasising that he's now gone from the company, so no need to worry about that anymore. Dark Side of the Ring has done a lot more to expose WWE and Vince's truly disgusting behaviour, and there's also a six part Behind the Bastards podcast on Vince which I'd highly recommend, as it goes into far more detail.

As far as the recent charges against McMahon are concerned, Janel Grant's lawsuit is online in painful detail and if you can stomach it, then it's worth reading to get the full picture of how depraved Vince (and those surrounding him) are. It's pretty horrendous though, so not something you'd want to read if you can't deal with stuff like that.

As far as Ashley Massaro's suicide is concerned, the details are much more horrific than just Massaro refusing to go along with storylines, unfortunately. She was raped on an overseas tour whilst she was drugged by somebody in the US military, and WWE covered the whole thing up. No charges, nothing. Funnily enough the documentary didn't cover that. I would imagine her suicide had a lot to do with that incident, and Vince is far from the only one with her blood on his hands.

Fact is plenty of people inside and outside the industry knew what Vince was about for decades before the recent allegations finally took him down. He benefited from the media largely ignoring wrestling because it's always been considered low-brow and unworthy of serious reporting. In a way, WWE's ascension into a more respected form of entertainment over the past decade or so laid the groundwork for Vince's downfall. Not to mention the fact that the current allegations were so horrific that even Vince couldn't escape the fallout this time.

[Vinjay]

Not much of a show at the new Coop Arena tonight. Wasn't expecting that much from an untelevised show but as the first event at a new building there was a slight hope for a little more. Steel cage match main event was a bit slow (sometimes a good thing with so much flippity flop) with Cody R v Sikoa but once again there was the feeling that you don't go "all out" at an untelevised event. Obviously wasn't expecting a major title change but something noteworthy enough to mention on TV perhaps.

Think they were trying to break a world record with how long they played Orton's music after his match.

Only one women's match (a so called street fight) which is always a good thing.

Facility is fine. Didn't take too long to get in and left right away when the main event concluded so the metro wasn't overcrowded. I like it when the lighting is "stripped down" you don't need 20 boards all repeating the same thing.

Edited October 16 by Vinjay

[K-Hod]

Was clearly on a bit of a high, following the fact I’ve finished watching Mr McMahon, I’m going to a Halloween party dressed as Stone Cold Steve Austin on Saturday!

Photos to follow 😅.

[K-Hod]

Promised a picture, sorry it took so long to deliver….

[Vinjay]

I miss Vince. Hopefully his new business will be of interest to me even if it isn't wrestling related. 27 years ago today since that infamous night in Montreal. Turned out to be the best thing that could have happened as it led to the McMahon v Austin feud and record popularity.